The Seventh Day is the SABBATH of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10

[bugkiller]

Well... not in real life.

in real life those who affirm the non-deleted un-edited non-denied Commandments of God given by what James calls the "HE who SAID" -- are in fact promoting Jame's POV



Which makes it the LORD's day.

In fact Hebrews 8:6-10 points out that it is Jesus speaking the TEN Commandments at Sinai - because it is HE who is speaking the NEW Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-33 according to Hebrews 8.

Bible details do matter.

Galatians 5:1-4 - For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to the yoke of slavery. Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the WHOLE LAW. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have FALLEN AWAY from Grace.

Here Paul is NOT promoting taking God's name in vain OR breaking the Bible Sabbath.

One of my fondest wishes is that people would read and fully understand the last passage you quoted.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You said concerning the Bible Sabbath



If the NEW Earth of Rev 21 is not after the cross - then having "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 might still be able to fit your statement. But a lot of people are thinking the New Earth is after the cross and for all eternity -- including me. So we may differ at that point.

Yous till have not shown anything happening on the Sabbath with this verse.

And of course in Romans 3:19-20 Paul makes it clear that the same LAW of God that has always defined sin and condemned all mankind as sinners - in all of time -- "is established" by our faith Romans 3:31 rather than deleted by it.

Your verse does not say the law is still enforce because the same Paul says now we are delivered from the law...

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 -- for all eternity, after the cross, in the New Earth when ALL MANkIND are people of God.



1 John 5:2-3 says that we show Love for God by keeping His commandments -- I simply "agree".

Can you show us where this means 10 Cs? I JN 3:23 essentially restates JN 15:10.

Rev 14:12 says the saints "Keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" -- I simply "agree"

No where in the works of John do we find him advocating keeping the law.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" -- again... I "agree"

I will ask you again a bit differently though - what matters more the blood of Jesus or keeping the law?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

True -- "WE" Christians -- (BOTH Jews AND Gentiles) -- "ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31 NASB



Not according to Romans 3.

Context is everything in exegesis.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

If your argument is that only Jews have mouths, only they sin, only they live on planet earth - you have a big uphill effort to prove such a thing.

But I think you know that most Christians will agree that "God so loved the WORLD" not "just-Jews" and that the Gospel is to save a world fallen in sin "not just Jews"

What happened to Moses? is he wrong?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I thought we were talking about the gospel - did you think the Gospel said "justified by law"???

The "ONE Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 .. is the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 and Hebrews 8:6-10.

As we saw here

The law and justification by it is what you preach.

bugkiller

 

[FredVB]

The new covenant is the new covenant of blood, that is, the blood of Christ, with his life that was shed for us. It is not the new covenant of other law. So it is law of those commandments that are to be placed in believers' hearts.

You should not kill. You should not steal. You should not commit adultery. Or do you say you should?

Hi Fred, You tell us there is no difference in any of the commandments as far as being written on our hearts, I really differ with you and here is one reason why. It is my personal experience becoming a Sabbath observer. I studied for 2 years with a group of Sabbath observers ( I don't care for the term "keepers" because no one really has ever kept the requirements of Torah except Jesus). At the end of those 2 years my wife and I joined the Sabbath observers. Not one time in those 2 years did the Holy Spirit or the writings on my heart ever prompt me to become an observer. After 2 years of study we became acquainted with a lot of church members and really felt at home around them. The written 10 commandments I thought I fully understood and because of the 4th commandment we started attending the church. From birth until this moment I have been pricked by the Holy Spirit to do what is right to God and my fellow man. Never from birth up until this moment have I ever been pricked to observe a day. During all those years I have asked people if the Holy Spirit ever placed the burden on them to observe Sabbath. Never did I get an answer that any of them ever even thought about observing. That should tell you something. It is easy to tell us that the 10 are written on the hearts of man, but to prove it is a different thing. I truly believe the law of love is written on man's heart and that would include the 9 of the old covenant. Morality is forever, ritual commands given to a how defunct Israel are mere shadows.

The greatest commandments were not part of the 10 commandments. That too should ring your bell. In Christ, Bob

Before I address the post in general, I would first respond to that claim that the two great commandments are not part of the ten commandments. They are, for the ten are based on loving Yahweh God with all our being and loving our fellow humans as ourselves, and even loving fellow creatures.

The new covenant is available and we who are believers, in Christ, are included in it. The law written on our hearts is not instantaneous with that, but develops, with ultimately being complete in our hearts. You as others were likely never going to kill another human being anyway, even when apart from Christ. But in Christ we are to grow, and see wider application with what is commanded. You will learn more for that, as I will too, and we will come to live it from the heart, when all is fulfilled. And indeed the morality doesn't change, and continues. You think rest with observing Sabbath is not involving morality at all, it is just ceremonial? It is holy, as Scripture shows, it is also made for man. It was wrong for having others work for one, this applied even for animals that were put to work, all were given the day for rest. So gentiles are excluded? Or because of any being Christian they are excluded? It is still wrong to tell others, the day of rest is not for them. If you have others work for you on the day of rest it is wrong. There is morality involved in this.

Yes, ceremonial things were shadows of what has since been fulfilled. No priestly actions are needed now, apart from Christ who is our high priest. And no animals have to die for us anymore.

Please explain how "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt:" is the same law (covenant) written in stone. The complete passage says nothing about moving that covenant from stone to the heart.The issue you present here is really about sin and wicked behavior. So let me ask you - how one can be in compliance with the new commandment Jesus gave in Jn 13:34 and sin (commit wickedness)? Please do not indicate obedience is by incidence. IOW because one does not murder they are observing the law.Quoting and basing a point on part of a sentence is misuse and bearing false witness to deceive.

The covenant was based on what blood was shed. So with the same commandments in the law, there were different covenants, the old with sacrifices that Levitical priests took part in, and the new covenant with Christ fulfilling all requirements for that, which was of same law.

You are right that obedience is not just incidental. Many people don't murder other people. But see what I just wrote above regarding this. You must love others, in the way you would only in Christ, and if you hate any, you don't fulfill it and are contrary to the commandments. In the same way loving Yahweh and other humans, and being loving otherwise, will lead to doing such things. Don't just claim your love is perfect and you don't need to learn and grow to do more.

 

[Bob S]

Before I address the post in general, I would first respond to that claim that the two great commandments are not part of the ten commandments. They are, for the ten are based on loving Yahweh God with all our being and loving our fellow humans as ourselves, and even loving fellow creatures.

Hi Fred, why do you keep posting that the two greatest commandments are part of the 10? When challenged you have yet to prove from scripture that the 10 are based on love at all. I can attempt to observe all of the 10 commandments out of duty or even fear because there is nothing in them that connects them with love. You, like millions have been fed (programed) what you have been trying to proclaim, but if you examine the 10 there is nothing that would substantiate your belief.

The new covenant is available and we who are believers, in Christ, are included in it.

Available???? It is reality.

The law written on our hearts is not instantaneous with that, but develops, with ultimately being complete in our hearts.

I need some scripture for that one Fred.

You as others were likely never going to kill another human being anyway, even when apart from Christ. But in Christ we are to grow, and see wider application with what is commanded.

Yes, we have love in our hearts that gives us the desire to grow. Killing is not just a physical act, we can and do kill the souls of others. Love in our hearts prodded by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit sets us in the right direction

You will learn more for that, as I will too, and we will come to live it from the heart, when all is fulfilled.

Please explain Fred. Has not God given us all the "tools" we need to be all He wants us to be? Do we become Christians in degrees?

And indeed the morality doesn't change, and continues. You think rest with observing Sabbath is not involving morality at all, it is just ceremonial? It is holy, as Scripture shows, it is also made for man.

Everything God has given to man is moral verses immoral. The Sabbath command given only to Israel was a ritual commands as were all the special days God gave to them. All those special days were Holy unto them. God made them Holy especially for Israel and no other nation was ever given any of those days to keep Holy.

You quote Jesus where He tells us the Sabbath was made for man and I cannot deny that statement. The fact is that he has never asked any other nation on this Earth to observe it. While He was here on this earth He never expressed to Gentiles that they should observe Sabbath. When He was teaching Paul all that Paul has related to mankind Jesus didn't tell him to remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy. Why Fred? I will tell you why Fred, it was because the old covenant ended at Calvary and the new covenant doesn't have commands given only to Israel. Why would God have all other nations keep days that would mean nothing to them? The didn't cross through the Red Sea, endure slavery for 400 years and finally were rescued by God.

It was wrong for having others work for one, this applied even for animals that were put to work, all were given the day for rest. So gentiles are excluded? Or because of any being Christian they are excluded? It is still wrong to tell others, the day of rest is not for them. If you have others work for you on the day of rest it is wrong. There is morality involved in this.

What is really wrong is for you to insinuate that we are sinning because we are not observing a law that we were never given.

Yes, ceremonial things were shadows of what has since been fulfilled. No priestly actions are needed now, apart from Christ who is our high priest. And no animals have to die for us anymore.

All of the old covenant was abrogated at the Cross. Either Jesus fulfilled all the law or not one tittle of the whole law has bee abrogated. It is all or nothing, not just parts.

The covenant was based on what blood was shed. So with the same commandments in the law, there were different covenants, the old with sacrifices that Levitical priests took part in, and the new covenant with Christ fulfilling all requirements for that, which was of same law.

Before you allow your fingers to write what you just did it would be wise to have some proof that what you wrote is truth. I challenge your thoughts.

You are right that obedience is not just incidental. Many people don't murder other people. But see what I just wrote above regarding this.

I did and I pray that you see what i wrote and take it to heart

You must love others, in the way you would only in Christ, and if you hate any, you don't fulfill it and are contrary to the commandments.

Are you preaching to us? It very much sounds like you are.

In the same way loving Yahweh and other humans, and being loving otherwise, will lead to doing such things. Don't just claim your love is perfect and you don't need to learn and grow to do more.

Has anyone claimed they love perfectly? We all need to grow, but teaching things that are not Biblical is not helping anyone to grow. Instead of parroting what you hear get your knowledge from the source, the Holy Writ. Fortify your posts with Scripture.

May God bless you in your endeavor.

 

[bugkiller]

Before I address the post in general, I would first respond to that claim that the two great commandments are not part of the ten commandments. They are, for the ten are based on loving Yahweh God with all our being and loving our fellow humans as ourselves, and even loving fellow creatures.

The new covenant is available and we who are believers, in Christ, are included in it. The law written on our hearts is not instantaneous with that, but develops, with ultimately being complete in our hearts. You as others were likely never going to kill another human being anyway, even when apart from Christ. But in Christ we are to grow, and see wider application with what is commanded. You will learn more for that, as I will too, and we will come to live it from the heart, when all is fulfilled. And indeed the morality doesn't change, and continues. You think rest with observing Sabbath is not involving morality at all, it is just ceremonial? It is holy, as Scripture shows, it is also made for man. It was wrong for having others work for one, this applied even for animals that were put to work, all were given the day for rest. So gentiles are excluded? Or because of any being Christian they are excluded? It is still wrong to tell others, the day of rest is not for them. If you have others work for you on the day of rest it is wrong. There is morality involved in this.

Yes, ceremonial things were shadows of what has since been fulfilled. No priestly actions are needed now, apart from Christ who is our high priest. And no animals have to die for us anymore.



The covenant was based on what blood was shed. So with the same commandments in the law, there were different covenants, the old with sacrifices that Levitical priests took part in, and the new covenant with Christ fulfilling all requirements for that, which was of same law.

You are right that obedience is not just incidental. Many people don't murder other people. But see what I just wrote above regarding this. You must love others, in the way you would only in Christ, and if you hate any, you don't fulfill it and are contrary to the commandments. In the same way loving Yahweh and other humans, and being loving otherwise, will lead to doing such things. Don't just claim your love is perfect and you don't need to learn and grow to do more.

You must live in sin willfully and continually by what you wrote about the sabbath.

Did Jesus at any time do an unloving act?

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Before I address the post in general, I would first respond to that claim that the two great commandments are not part of the ten commandments. They are, for the ten are based on loving Yahweh God with all our being and loving our fellow humans as ourselves, and even loving fellow creatures.

The TWO commandments found in the "LAW of Moses"
Deut 6:5 - 'Love God with all your heart'
Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Are in fact affirmed in Matt 22 by Christ AND by the non-Christian Jews - before the cross.

And are admitted to be foundational to all the LAW and the prophets.

The new covenant is available and we who are believers, in Christ, are included in it. The law written on our hearts

Agreed - and it is given in the OT as we see in Jeremiah 31:31-33 and unchanged in the NT as we see in Hebrews 8:6-10

 

[BobRyan]

You must live in sin willfully and continually by what you wrote about the sabbath.

1. I find your logic "illusive"
2. I find your lack of any quote of me -- to leave your post empty of factual support for the false accusation made against me.

 

[bloodygrace]

The TWO commandments found in the "LAW of Moses"
Deut 6:5 - 'Love God with all your heart'
Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Are in fact affirmed in Matt 22 by Christ AND by the non-Christian Jews - before the cross.

And are admitted to be foundational to all the LAW and the prophets.

Agreed - and it is given in the OT as we see in Jeremiah 31:31-33 and unchanged in the NT as we see in Hebrews 8:6-10

Love is a motivation for service which is nothing like the old commandments based on elbow grease that had to be physically performed.

 

[bloodygrace]

1. I find your logic "illusive"
2. I find your lack of any quote of me -- to leave your post empty of factual support for the false accusation made against me.

The Sabbath day is non-binding on any believer in Christ. Paul an actual Sabbath keeper which you are not said it was a shadow that pointed forward to resting in Christ. Sin is hard work, Bob. You have to deny and resist the Holy Spirit with supernatural effort not to see the gospel.

 

[klutedavid]

The TWO commandments found in the "LAW of Moses"
Deut 6:5 - 'Love God with all your heart'
Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"

Are in fact affirmed in Matt 22 by Christ AND by the non-Christian Jews - before the cross.

And are admitted to be foundational to all the LAW and the prophets.



Agreed - and it is given in the OT as we see in Jeremiah 31:31-33 and unchanged in the NT as we see in Hebrews 8:6-10

Hello Bob Ryan.

The quotation (Jeremiah 31:31-33) you cited does not say that the ten commandments are written on their heart. The text says that, 'My law', will be written on their heart.

Jeremiah 31
33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Why do you substitute the ten commandments for the phrase, 'My law'?

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob Ryan.

The quotation (Jeremiah 31:31-33) you cited does not say that the ten commandments are written on their heart. The text says that, 'My law', will be written on their heart.

It clearly includes the TEN since as everyone knows - Jeremiah and his readers accepted the Ten Commandments as being included in the LAW of God.

At this point - I merely state the obvious that both sides already know. I see no point in debating the obvious.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The Sabbath day is non-binding on any believer in Christ.

Until you read the Bible in Isaiah 66:23 where we find that it applies to "All mankind" -- according to scripture.

 

[klutedavid]

It clearly includes the TEN since as everyone knows - Jeremiah and his readers accepted the Ten Commandments as being included in the LAW of God.

At this point - I merely state the obvious that both sides already know. I see no point in debating the obvious.

in Christ,

Bob

Hello Bob.

So the law in Jeremiah includes the ten commandments, so what else does the law written on the heart include?

 

[bugkiller]

.

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

Until you read the Bible in Isaiah 66:23 where we find that it applies to "All mankind" -- according to scripture.

The new moon was not a holy convocation, but merely a marking of the new month. The same with Sabbath in this context. Here it just meant week. So from month to month and from week to week...

 

[BobRyan]

The new moon was not a holy convocation, but merely a marking of the new month. The same with Sabbath in this context. Here it just meant week. So from month to month and from week to week...

Not true at all in this case.

Jeremiah and his readers never regarded "from Sabbath to Sabbath" to mean "from week to week" -- they were all accepting the Bible Sabbath.

And as we see in the OT "from year to year" meant at a specific time each year - as in the case of Samuel's mother.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello Bob.

So the law in Jeremiah includes the ten commandments, so what else does the law written on the heart include?

As even the Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confessions of Faith point out - all the moral law of God. All that defines what sin is... "Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4.

When a Bible detail is so incredibly obvious that both sides of the Saturday-vs-Sunday debate admit to it... well there is no sense in "debating the obvious"

Exegesis matters.

Context matters.

Bible details matter.

As I am sure you will agree.