The Seventh Day is the SABBATH of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10

[JingshenBianxi]

You said concerning the Bible Sabbath



If the NEW Earth of Rev 21 is not after the cross - then having "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 might still be able to fit your statement. But a lot of people are thinking the New Earth is after the cross and for all eternity -- including me. So we may differ at that point.

And of course in Romans 3:19-20 Paul makes it clear that the same LAW of God that has always defined sin and condemned all mankind as sinners - in all of time -- "is established" by our faith Romans 3:31 rather than deleted by it.

Read carefully...

Romans 3:30 - since God is one--who will justify the circumsized BY FAITH and the uncircumsized THROUGH FAITH.

THEN he goes on to say in verse 31..

Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

Question...who was the LAW...written for?
The Jews..

Was a Paul a Jew?
Yes..

So then when he said..." WE " uphold the law...who was he talking to?
Jews..

 

[BobRyan]

Read carefully...

Romans 3:30 - since God is one--who will justify the circumsized BY FAITH and the uncircumsized THROUGH FAITH.
THEN he goes on to say in verse 31..
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

True -- "WE" Christians -- (BOTH Jews AND Gentiles) -- "ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31 NASB

Question...who was the LAW...written for?
The Jews..

Not according to Romans 3.

Context is everything in exegesis.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

If your argument is that only Jews have mouths, only they sin, only they live on planet earth - you have a big uphill effort to prove such a thing.

But I think you know that most Christians will agree that "God so loved the WORLD" not "just-Jews" and that the Gospel is to save a world fallen in sin "not just Jews"

 

[JingshenBianxi]

Mark 7:6-13 -- I agree to this one as well - but you might want to take a close look at what is being said there about sidestepping/downsizing/editing one of the TEN Commandments.

During that conversation with the Pharisees, do note, Jesus was walking by the LAW to be the blameless LAMB of GOD. He wasn't yet crucified.

 

[JingshenBianxi]

20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Do you not see that?

 

[BobRyan]

Do you not see that?

I thought we were talking about the gospel - did you think the Gospel said "justified by law"???

The "ONE Gospel" of Gal 1:6-9 .. is the NEW Covenant of Jer 31:31-33 and Hebrews 8:6-10.

As we saw here

That much is true.

hence the reference we have here --

Romans 2
26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

Romans 9
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Heb 8
8“Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
When I will effect a new covenant
With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
On the day when I took them by the hand
To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
For they did not continue in My covenant,
And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put My laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.

Like many other Christians on this board -- I am a New Covenant Christian..

In Gal 1:6-9 there is only ONE Gospel.

The NEW Covenant is that Gospel - it has adoption as children of God, AND forgiveness of sins.

Only ONE Gospel - and that Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

All God's Children who are adopted into the family of God - born-again believers "know God" - just as Christ points out in John 14.


It is true for believers - for those who are born again.

Matthew 16
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


1 John 2
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.

 

[JingshenBianxi]

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Read it carefully...it says now we know that whatever...the LAW SAYS....it SPEAKS..to those...who are UNDER the LAW...so that every mouth may be CLOSED and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME ACCOUNTABLE to GOD;..........BECAUSE!!

wait for it..

By the WORKS of the LAW...NO...FLESH...WILL...BE...JUSTIFIED...IN....His....SIGHT!!

 

[JingshenBianxi]

It's hard to convince someone that they've been lied to. Hopefully the Truth will set you free before the One who FULFILLED the LAW comes back. In fulfilling something it means...you complete it. The law was DEATH. Jesus FULFILLED IT....Death. Resurrected...CONQUERED Death. God says...believe my SON JESUS..I have given Him all AUTHORITY.

Therefore, if you continue to LIVE UNDER THE LAW...like all 7th Day Adventist do....you experience...DEATH. Because you deny that JESUS already FULFILLED it...thus Blaspheming GOD HIMSELF...in thinking that YOU can live according to the LAW...PERFECTLY YOURSELF...

Jesus already did it.

But hey...if you want to be JESUS?...go ahead...you will NOT succeed.

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 3.

Context is everything in exegesis.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

If your argument is that only Jews have mouths, only they sin, only they live on planet earth - you have a big uphill effort to prove such a thing.

But I think you know that most Christians will agree that "God so loved the WORLD" not "just-Jews" and that the Gospel is to save a world fallen in sin "not just Jews"

Romans 3 and Romans 5 make it clear - it is aLL mankind, ALL the world that is under sin.
=========================================================

Read it carefully...it says now we know that whatever...the LAW SAYS....it SPEAKS..to those...who are UNDER the LAW...so that every mouth may be CLOSED and ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME ACCOUNTABLE to GOD;..........BECAUSE!!

Indeed. There is only so many times you can post in agreement with what I just said - before it begins to not look like disagreement.

wait for it..

By the WORKS of the LAW...NO...FLESH...WILL...BE...JUSTIFIED...IN....His....SIGHT!!

I waited ... still waiting ... unless you think the Gospel is "justified by the works of the law". Surely that is not your argument is it??

 

[BobRyan]

It's hard to convince someone that they've been lied to. Hopefully the Truth will set you free before the One who FULFILLED the LAW comes back. In fulfilling something it means...you complete it. The law was DEATH. Jesus FULFILLED IT....Death. Resurrected...CONQUERED Death. God says...believe my SON JESUS..I have given Him all AUTHORITY.

Therefore, if you continue to LIVE UNDER THE LAW...like all 7th Day Adventist do....you experience...DEATH. Because you deny that JESUS already FULFILLED it...thus Blaspheming GOD HIMSELF...in thinking that YOU can live according to the LAW...PERFECTLY YOURSELF...

Jesus already did it.

But hey...if you want to be JESUS?...go ahead...you will NOT succeed.

And... it is still a sin "to take God's name in vain".

The point remains.

 

[JingshenBianxi]

So basically the woman who created the 7th Day Adventist religion has managed to trap you to thinking that you are to live according to every bit of the LAW...even after the work of Jesus Christ...Him being the LORD of the Sabbath now...all Authority has now been given to Him...

Yet you still live as if the Messiah has never arrived. It is to say then...that you have an alter in your backyard...with a stable of goats, lambs, and whatever other animals God requires for you to sacrifice for your sins. Because the Word of God already showed you what happens with PARTIALITY...in obeying the Law. See if you hold yourself to the Law...Partially...you will be judged BY THE LAW...as a WHOLE.

I've been to a 7th Day Adventist church. I saw NOT ONE High PRIEST going in a HOLY OF HOLIES room to " Worship " God with the incense and what not. However, all that was PART OF THE LAW....that..." YOU UPHOLD "..right?

So...continue to PARTIALLY...UPHOLD the LAW...and experience Death.

 

[JingshenBianxi]

If you're clean shaven?...YOU are in error, sir. Go do a blood sacrifice right now for the atonement of your sin cause in Leviticus it clearly TOLD YOU...not to shave your beard.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Tell me something I don't know.

I still can't find that emoji!

 

[JingshenBianxi]

Oh and of course you tithe a 10th of your FIRST FRUITS, right?..to the LEVITE TRIBE that is STILL SERVING in the Tabernacle....and it wasn't money..unless you were too far away to transport your first fruits from your crops to the Tabernacle that is apparently STILL UP AND RUNNING...cause you know..the LEVITES are still alive and thriving..serving in the Tabernacle sun up to sun down. It is why God commanded the 10% tithe of all the other tribes of Israel...so that the LEVITES COULD EAT.

If you're giving a tenth of your INCOME..aka..MONEY?....You are LITERALLY in disobedience because it was never a tithe of MONEY.

 

[1stcenturylady]

You said concerning the Bible Sabbath



If the NEW Earth of Rev 21 is not after the cross - then having "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 might still be able to fit your statement. But a lot of people are thinking the New Earth is after the cross and for all eternity -- including me. So we may differ at that point.

And of course in Romans 3:19-20 Paul makes it clear that the same LAW of God that has always defined sin and condemned all mankind as sinners - in all of time -- "is established" by our faith Romans 3:31 rather than deleted by it.

But, Bob, I know that verse well and it says from new moon to new moon and Sabbath the Sabbath; in other words, from month to month and week to week. What do you do month to month to honor God?

You are still not seeing the big picture of WHAT the Sabbath was. Read Hebrews 4 again. You will see that "there remains" is not talking about the Sabbath law, but COMPLETE TRUST IN GOD. Why do you think he would say "Today", and not wait until Saturday...

And, really, Bob, is that all you read of my post?

 

[JingshenBianxi]

See living UNDER the LAW....applies to both Jew and Gentile. It's why the GOSPEL had to be preached to set them free. To live UNDER THE LAW...means to live to be JUSTIFIED by it. YOU simply...CAN NOT be JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW. Am I saying...to HELL with the LAW?

NO!!

The Bible isn't even saying that. But what is it saying?...I've already showed you what it said. They have plenty of arguments and discussion in the Bible with the Jewish converts and the Gentile converts...in regards to the New Covenant. The Jewish converts were holding the GENTILES up to the standard of the LAW that they were so accustomed to...what did Paul say?

Acts 15:20 - but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

The Gentiles had no idea what the Law was!!..all they knew was JESUS CRUCIFIED...aka..The GOSPEL!! It made no sense to hold the Gentiles to the standard of the LAW and they didn't even know it..that's why the scripture told you that the UNCIRCUMSIZED ( Gentiles ) were justified THROUGH FAITH...not BY FAITH.

BY FAITH...the circumsized were circumsized...BECAUSE OF THE LAW
THROUGH FAITH ... the uncircumsized....were justified THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS...who FULFILLED THE LAW.

 

[BobRyan]

But, Bob, I know that verse well and it says from new moon to new moon and Sabbath the Sabbath;

True. It is two cycles not just one in the New Earth.

Just as Samuel's mother came up to Jerusalem "from year to year" to bring him a new change of clothes when he was a child.

1. Exodus 13:10
   Therefore, you shall keep this ordinance at its appointed time from year to year.
2. Judges 21:19
   So they said, “Behold, there is a feast of the LORD from year to year in Shiloh, which is on the north side of Bethel, on the east side of the highway that goes up from Bethel to Shechem, and on the south side of Lebonah.”
3. 1 Samuel 2:19
   And his mother would make him a little robe and bring it to him from year to year when she would come up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice.

This is the easy part - I think.

in other words, from month to month and week to week.

Isaiah would know what "from Sabbath to Sabbath" means -- so would his readers. There is no case in the OT or NT where that means "every monday" - or "every week day 2" or "daily". I think we all can agree to that.

You are still not seeing the big picture of WHAT the Sabbath was. Read Hebrews 4 again. You will see that "there remains" is not talking about the Sabbath law

It says "it remains" from the time of David where the Psalms is quoted. And we all know that in the time of David the Bible Sabbath was very Saturday.

, but COMPLETE TRUST IN GOD. Why do you think he would say "Today", and not wait until Saturday...

David says "TODAY" - he did not say that coming to God "today deletes the weekly Sabbath" -- I think we all agree on that part of the point. There is no indication at all that David lead out in Sabbath breaking.

This is irrefutable -- as I think we all would agree.

If you switch the meaning of the term to "born-again saint" then you have the born-again-saint promise and reality in the time of David "remaining" for today - which said nothing in David's day about "deleting one of the TEN Commandments" nor does it say that today.. Rather it "remains" as it was then.

 

[BobRyan]

See living UNDER the LAW....applies to both Jew and Gentile. It's why the GOSPEL had to be preached

All have sinned - as Romans 3 points out... all are condemned as sinners by the LAW of God that defines what sin is "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 EVEN in the NT. And as Romans 3 points out "by the LAW comes the knowledge of sin".

Yet it is that very LAW that is "ESTABLISHED" by our faith in Romans 3:31.

to set them free. To live UNDER THE LAW...means to live to be JUSTIFIED by it. YOU simply...CAN NOT be JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW.

Indeed - sinners condemned by the LAW that still defines what sin is even in the NT - need the Gospel that is the whole point.

Yet under the Gospel - the NEW Covenant - that LAW is "written on the heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 Hebrews 8:6-10 instead of "deleted".

They have plenty of arguments and discussion in the Bible with the Jewish converts and the Gentile converts...in regards to the New Covenant.

Indeed - but even in the NEW testament - the NEW Covenant is unchanged from Jer 31:31-33 as we see in Hebrews 8:6-10 it still has the "LAW written on the heart and mind" instead of the "law deleted".

The Gentiles had no idea what the Law was!!..all they knew was JESUS CRUCIFIED

That is totally not true of gentile Christians. They also had scripture "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God and is to be used for doctrine" is the message to Timothy as the pastor of the church at Ephesus. Ephesus was a GENTILE church as we all know.

Thus -- even in the NT it was still "sin" for gentiles to "take God's name in vain" - this is irrefutable.

Even more Paul writing to the Ephesians says that the TEN commandments are still binding -- when he says that the 5th commandment is to be obeyed as it is "The FIRST commandment with a promise" in that STILL binding unit of TEN Ephesians 6:2.

Again... irrefutable.

 

[BobRyan]

Oh and of course you tithe a 10th of your FIRST FRUITS, right?..to the LEVITE TRIBE that is STILL SERVING in the Tabernacle....and it wasn't money..unless you were too far away to transport your first fruits from your crops to the Tabernacle that is apparently STILL UP AND RUNNING...cause you know..the LEVITES are still alive and thriving..serving in the Tabernacle sun up to sun down. It is why God commanded the 10% tithe of all the other tribes of Israel...so that the LEVITES COULD EAT.

If you're giving a tenth of your INCOME..aka..MONEY?....You are LITERALLY in disobedience because it was never a tithe of MONEY.

1. It was a tithe of the "increase" and the money went to the temple to pay for the up keep and for the priests. Not everyone -- "was a farmer" as we all know.

Abraham "pays a tithe" to Melchizedek -- not merely " wagon loads of barley"

But you change the subject.

The point remains that it was still "sin" to take God's name in vain - the Ten Commandments remain.

 

[BobRyan]

If you're clean shaven?...YOU are in error, sir. Go do a blood sacrifice

Hebrews 7 says no more earthly priests to do animal sacrifices
Hebrews 10 says no more animal sacrifices and offerings.

Yet it is "STILL" a sin to take God's name in vain.

This point is irrefutable - we all know it is true.

And Eph 6:2 still says that the binding still-binding unit of TEN is where we find the 5th commandment which makes it obligatory for Christians according to Paul - speaking to gentiles -- about the LAW

John writing to ALL the church

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome

Where the "FIRST commandment with a promise" in that still binding unit of TEN - is the 5th commandment. Eph 6:2

Paul writing to gentiles

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

================================'

no wonder then - that EVEN the majority of pro-sunday scholars accept the very basic Bible detail.

The Baptist Confession of Faith,
the Westminster Confession of Faith ,
D.L. Moody,
R.C Sproul,
Matthew Henry,
Thomas Watson
Eastern Orthodox Catechism
The Catholic Catechism.

 

[1stcenturylady]

All have sinned - as Romans 3 points out... all are condemned as sinners by the LAW of God that defines what sin is "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 EVEN in the NT. And as Romans 3 points out "by the LAW comes the knowledge of sin".

Yet it is that very LAW that is "ESTABLISHED" by our faith in Romans 3:31.



Indeed - sinners condemned by the LAW that still defines what sin is even in the NT - need the Gospel that is the whole point.

Yet under the Gospel - the NEW Covenant - that LAW is "written on the heart and mind" Jer 31:31-33 Hebrews 8:6-10 instead of "deleted".



Indeed - but even in the NEW testament - the NEW Covenant is unchanged from Jer 31:31-33 as we see in Hebrews 8:6-10 it still has the "LAW written on the heart and mind" instead of the "law deleted".



That is totally not true of gentile Christians. They also had scripture "ALL scripture is given by inspiration from God and is to be used for doctrine" is the message to Timothy as the pastor of the church at Ephesus. Ephesus was a GENTILE church as we all know.

Thus -- even in the NT it was still "sin" for gentiles to "take God's name in vain" - this is irrefutable.

Even more Paul writing to the Ephesians says that the TEN commandments are still binding -- when he says that the 5th commandment is to be obeyed as it is "The FIRST commandment with a promise" in that STILL binding unit of TEN Ephesians 6:2.

Again... irrefutable.

I'm not denying that the last six are repeated over and over, even by Jesus. That's what I've been saying. They encompass loving your neighbor as yourself. But of the first four, it only says to believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ. You are assuming we must obey laws written on stone, because if the 7th day was written on our hearts, our conscience would know about it.