Christ is the end of the law

[bloodygrace]

The Law does not exhaustively prescribe every action that is righteous, nor does it exhaustively prohibit every action that is sinful, but rather the Law is spiritual because it has always been meant to teach us spiritual principles of which the listed laws are just examples. However, if you correctly understand the spiritual principles, and you have faith in God to guide you in how you should rightly live, then it will lead you to take actions that are in accordance with those principles.

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the Law is how we can look up things are sins that we should be repenting of, but you are teaching against repentance and turning back to obedience to God's Law. Whether or not someone keeps the Law is based upon whether or not they continue to practice repentance and obedience.

God's law is love and you have no conception of that, period! The law to you is a set of do's and don'ts and if you mostly keep the do's and refrain from the don'ts you see yourself as righteous like the scribes and Pharisees. You are going backwards spiritually instead of forwards.

 

[bloodygrace]

Please show me where in the bible where Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus, the Apostles or Paul taught or believed that!

You are only a sinner when you break the commandments, it is not a sin to be born.

You were born a sinner and not much has changed since then.

 

[bloodygrace]

Sin is defined as transgression of the law. John taught that and all John had was the Torah, so he knew what he was talking about.

sin1
sin/
noun

1. 1.
   an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.

And the law of God is spiritual so in order to keep it you have to be spiritual as well. You need the Holy Spirit which is what all true Christians have and zero law-keeper have.

 

[bloodygrace]

Hello,

If you do not consider that the law has always been meant to teach us spiritual principles, then the Law is limited, but if we can use those principles to determine whether other actions are righteous or sinful, then the Law is sufficient.



In Titus 2:11-14, it describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do what is essentially Lawful and to renounce doing what is essentially Lawless. It says that Christ gave himself to redeem us from all Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people who are zealous for doing good works, which is again what the Law was given to teach us how to do, and this is what our salvation from Lawlessness looks like. In 2 Timothy 3:16-17, Paul said that OT Scriptures were useful for equipping us to do every good work, not just the ones that it listed. Incidentally, this is why the tens of thousands of Jews who were coming to faith were becoming zealous for the Law (Acts 21:20).



Indeed, we can't believe that Jesus is Lord without submitting to him as Lord, and Romans 10:5-10 quotes Deuteronomy 30:11-14 in regard to what it means to submit to him as Lord.



Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand. Another way he could have said it is to repent from our sins for the King here at the door and knocking, but either way repentance from our disobedience to the Mosaic Law is an integral part of the Gospel message, and he is the reason why we need to repent.

Being zealous of the law was a bad thing not a good thing. The 1st century was a transition period and many Christian like James clung to the old ways instead of the new. This is why Paul is credited with 13 epistles to James' one.

 

[Soyeong]

We are under the law of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ),

In verse 21, Paul said in a parallel statement that he was not without the Law of God and that he was under the Law of Christ, so those both refer to the same thing. I do not see any reason to think that the Law of Christ is anything other than how he taught obedience to the Mosaic Law by word and by example.

 

[bloodygrace]

In verse 21, Paul said in a parallel statement that he was not without the Law of God and that he was under the Law of Christ, so those both refer to the same thing. I do not see any reason to think that the Law of Christ is anything other than how he taught obedience to the Mosaic Law by word and by example.

Paul was not without God's law of love and even James was wise enough to speak of love as the royal law of scripture. Law is any principle that holds true in every occasion, it's not necessarily a statutory law.

 

[Soyeong]

And the law of God is spiritual so in order to keep it you have to be spiritual as well. You need the Holy Spirit which is what all true Christians have and zero law-keeper have.

The Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to God's Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), while it is those who have a carnal mind who refuse to submit to God's Law (Romans 8:7).

Being zealous of the law was a bad thing not a good thing. The 1st century was a transition period and many Christian like James clung to the old ways instead of the new. This is why Paul is credited with 13 epistles to James' one.

Can you not understand how completely upsidedown your theology is that you actually believe that it is a bad thing for people to be zealous for obeying God's commands? All throughout the Bible God wanted His people to repent and turn back to obedience and now it is a bad thing to do what God wants. That is complete absurd. In Acts 21:20, it says that they were glorifying God, so them being zealous for doing good works was certainly a good thing. Jesus gave himself to redeem us from Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people who are zealous for doing good works, and God's Law instructs us how to do good works. According to Acts 21:24, Paul continued to live in obedience to the Law, so he was in agreement with James.

Jeremiah 6:16-19 Thus says the Lord: “Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’ 17 I set watchmen over you, saying, ‘Pay attention to the sound of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We will not pay attention.’ 18 Therefore hear, O nations, and know, O congregation, what will happen to them. 19 Hear, O earth; behold, I am bringing disaster upon this people, the fruit of their devices, because they have not paid attention to my words; and as for my law, they have rejected it.

 

[Soyeong]

Paul was not without God's law of love and even James was wise enough to speak of love as the royal law of scripture. Law is any principle that holds true in every occasion, it's not necessarily a statutory law.

Jesus summarized the the Law and the Prophets as being about how to love God and how to love your neighbor, so the Mosaic Law is the law of love, and James was likewise speaking of the Mosaic Law.

 

[bloodygrace]

The Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to God's Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27), while it is those who have a carnal mind who refuse to submit to God's Law (Romans 8:7).



Can you not understand how completely upsidedown your theology is that you actually believe that it is a bad thing for people to be zealous for obeying God's commands? All throughout the Bible God wanted His people to repent and turn back to obedience and now it is a bad thing to do what God wants. That is complete absurd. In Acts 21:20, it says that they were glorifying God, so them being zealous for doing good works was certainly a good thing. Jesus gave himself to redeem us from Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people who are zealous for doing good works, and God's Law instructs us how to do good works. According to Acts 21:24, Paul continued to live in obedience to the Law, so he was in agreement with James.

Jeremiah 6:16-19 Thus says the Lord: “Stand by the roads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is; and walk in it, and find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’ 17 I set watchmen over you, saying, ‘Pay attention to the sound of the trumpet!’ But they said, ‘We will not pay attention.’ 18 Therefore hear, O nations, and know, O congregation, what will happen to them. 19 Hear, O earth; behold, I am bringing disaster upon this people, the fruit of their devices, because they have not paid attention to my words; and as for my law, they have rejected it.

The Holy Spirit is obedience to God's law. You die and are reborn in Christ.

 

[bloodygrace]

Jesus summarized the the Law and the Prophets as being about how to love God and how to love your neighbor, so the Mosaic Law is the law of love, and James was likewise speaking of the Mosaic Law.

And you can't do that on your best day let alone your worst. Law-keeping is meant to teach what a horrible sinner you are. If you succeed at it you become like the scribes and Pharisees and are lost forever.

 

[Soyeong]

God's law is love and you have no conception of that, period! The law to you is a set of do's and don'ts and if you mostly keep the do's and refrain from the don'ts you see yourself as righteous like the scribes and Pharisees. You are going backwards spiritually instead of forwards.

Your statement is completely false. According to Galatians 5:14, love fulfills the entire Law, which is true because love is essentially what the Law is about how to do. Obeying God's Law is about show our love for God and about showing our faith in Him to guide us in how we should live, and thereby growing in a relationship with him. The reason why Israel failed to obtain righteousness is because they pursued the Law as through righteousness were by works instead of pursuing the Law as though righteousness were by faith (Romans 9:30-32).

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Soyeong.

Your understanding of the good news is so confused.

Are you saved because you believe in Jesus Christ, or are you saved, based primarily on your day to day repentance from sin?

 

[Soyeong]

And you can't do that on your best day let alone your worst. Law-keeping is meant to teach what a horrible sinner you are. If you succeed at it you become like the scribes and Pharisees and are lost forever.

Whatever I am able to do on my best day is a different issue from whether or not I ought to seek to obey God's commands by grace through faith. While the Law was given to reveal what actions are sinful, it was also given to reveal what actions are holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), and as part of the New Covenant we are still instruct to do what God has revealed to be holy, righteous, and good (1 Peter 1:13-16, 1 John 3:10, Ephesians 2:10).

Romans 6:16-19 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,[c] you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

 

[W2L]

In verse 21, Paul said in a parallel statement that he was not without the Law of God and that he was under the Law of Christ, so those both refer to the same thing. I do not see any reason to think that the Law of Christ is anything other than how he taught obedience to the Mosaic Law by word and by example.

I read the scripture different than you.

 

[bloodygrace]

Your statement is completely false. According to Galatians 5:14, love fulfills the entire Law, which is true because love is essentially what the Law is about how to do. Obeying God's Law is about show our love for God and about showing our faith in Him to guide us in how we should live, and thereby growing in a relationship with him. The reason why Israel failed to obtain righteousness is because they pursued the Law as through righteousness were by works instead of pursuing the Law as though righteousness were by faith (Romans 9:30-32).

Love is having the mind of Christ in us and that has nothing to do with do's and don'ts. Your whole understanding of law is do this and don't do that. That's not love and the reason why the scribes and Pharisees rejected Christ.

 

[bloodygrace]

Whatever I am able to do on my best day is a different issue from whether or not I ought to seek to obey God's commands by grace through faith. While the Law was given to reveal what actions are sinful, it was also given to reveal what actions are holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), and as part of the New Covenant we are still instruct to do what God has revealed to be holy, righteous, and good (1 Peter 1:13-16, 1 John 3:10, Ephesians 2:10).

Romans 6:16-19 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,[c] you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

You have the performance gospel which is all about keeping the rules. You can't even admit that Jesus broke the law on so many occasions. The Sabbath in particular he chose to show his disdain for the written code. We do not become righteous by following rules which is what the whole ministry of Jesus was about. Atheists can keep the rules. The scribes and Pharisees kept the rules. Righteousness is much more than that.

 

[bugkiller]

in a manner as a Jew such as Jesus?

Does not matter which Jew, including Jesus. There is no passage found in Scripture requiring one to live as a Jew to possess salvation. Acts is excellent on this fact as are Romans and Galatians. For that matter even Jesus did not require keeping of the law per JN 15:10.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

There is also nothing in the NT that commands believers to ignore and disregard all the instructions of God either. You really are misunderstanding of the book of Galatians. You only fall from grace, when you reject the Messiah as the way to salvation and forgiveness of your sins. You cant get salvation through the law, but when you sinned, Jesus blood now covers your sins instead of the blood of animals.

What commands of God are you talking about that are ignored by Christians? Christians are free to ignore anything not required of them. Keeping the covenant issued at Sinai is one of them. Jeremiah said it (the NC) would not be like the OC. Jeremiah also did not say that covenant would be moved. Jeremiah said it would be replaced. Jesus testified this NC is in effect in LK 22:20.

Please explain how keeping the commandments of God is the worst thing you can do because it denies the finished work of the cross....are you listening to what you are saying? Image if Jesus was walking around with that thought process....hear ye, hear ye, following my fathers commands is the worst thing you can do....they would have put him to death immediately and Paul too if he went around teaching that.

Yes he is using your terminology. Furthermore the commandment of God for the Christian is found in I JN 3:23.

And for the 10000th time, NO ONE on here has ever said Salvation is through the law!!! What has been said repeatedly is that Salvation is through Christ only and you keep the commandments of God because you are saved, not to try to get saved.

In that it is believed by some here one can not be saved unless they keep the 4th, it is understood to mean salvation through the law and Jesus. That is not what Jesus says in JN 10.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Galatians 5:4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Can you grant that this verse is specifically saying that those who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen from grace? Can you also grant that no one in this thread has ever suggested that we need to try to become justified by obeying the law? Can you even point to where the God required obedience to His Law for the purpose of justification? If not, then can you grant that there could be other purpose for which the Law was given?

Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

Can you grant that God's Law instructs how to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives? Can you also grant that finished work of Christ was to redeem us from all Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works? And that such good works would not be adding to the finished work of Christ, but would be what the finished work of Christ entails by grace?

Can you grant that the Bible defines sin as the transgression of the Law whereas you've defined sin as obedience to the Law?

Is it sin to not keep the fourth commandment? You do teach this, do you not?

If so it is salvation through or by the law. Such is filthy rags righteousness. You do know what happens to filthy rags, right?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

so Jesus committed the worst sin by following the law?

What do you know about Jesus? What was His obligations as a Jew?

bugkiller