Can True born again BELIEVERS lose their spiritual POSITION in Christ?

[RDKirk]

The unforgivable sin has nothing to do with this., why ask forgiveness when OSAS? When we are supposidely covered no matter what we so.

OSAS is a lie that by design, puts people in a position where they can/will let their guard down, live how they please, and end up in the same place of the one who put the lie in place.

But a true born-again believer would not "live how they please" because "not my will, but thine" is now part of their born-again character.

All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the Lamb's book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.

Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.

Are these not true statements?

If so, does it take one's own work to remain in the Book of Life? Is salvation like your car keys, easily lost if you're not careful?

From what I see, it's possible to reject salvation up front--and God has always known who those are who will be/are/were always in rejection of salvation.

But God has also always known who are in acceptance of salvation.

 

[Kenny'sID]

But a true born-again believer would not "live how they please" because "not my will, but thine" is now part of their born-again character.

I'm not sure why anyone would believe that would keep anyone from falling away. I'm not saying you are necessarily, but people seem to want to make something mysterious or confusing about this, when it's really quit simple. Hold on and we remain saved, let go and we are not.

Many of the seeds in the parable of the sower in Matthew 13 were fine until they encountered problems. The parable makes some very simple and easy to understand points. That is unless someone wants to tell me none of those seeds "were ever saved/growing to begin with", a favorite among OSASr's.

We fall from a cliff, then grab the hand of someone who wants to save us, and we are saved, we let go and we are not. The concept is only complicated if we let it or want it to be.

 

[RDKirk]

I'm not sure why anyone would believe that would keep anyone from falling away. I'm not saying you are necessarily, but people seem to want to make something mysterious or confusing about this, when it's really quit simple. Hold on and we remain saved, let go and we are not.

Many of the seeds in the parable of the sower in Matthew 13 were fine until they encountered problems. The parable makes some very simple and easy to understand points. That is unless someone wants to tell me none of those seeds "were ever saved/growing to begin with", a favorite among OSASr's.

We fall from a cliff, then grab the hand of someone who wants to save us, and we are saved, we let go and we are not. The concept is only complicated if we let it or want it to be.

If I'm the one doing the holding-on, then my salvation is dependent on my own strength.

I'm not holding on to Jesus, Jesus is holding on to me.

 

[aiki]

A blog post of mine seems appropro to this discussion:

Osas: God Saves Us And He Keeps Us. | Christian Forums

Selah.

 

[Kenny'sID]

If I'm the one doing the holding-on, then my salvation is dependent on my own strength.

I'm not holding on to Jesus, Jesus is holding on to me.

A twist you will be responsible for teaching others, so can we get into how biblical that is? Do you not have free will? Jesus will hold on to you even if you choose to let go? Can you prove that with scripture?

 

[Alithis]

Can True born again BELIEVERS lose their spiritual POSITION in Christ?

yes... by not living in it.
its one thing to have a position bestowed upon you.
it is a whole different thing to live in full accordance with that position .

 

[Alithis]

Saved means safe.

it does.i often notice though that folks ommit mention that we are actually saved.. (safe)..at his coming. we recieve that salvation .."at his coming" ..untill then we hope and we behave (action of how we live ,not inaction) as ones living.in that hope .forsaking sin and walking so very carfully in the fear of God out of deep gratitude and love for him that has made this very sure and very narrow way of escape for us.

 

[LoveofTruth]

"endure to the end" is a false doctrine.

Matthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

also Judas was a sheep sent to the LOST sheep and given power to cast out devils. He was saved and then lost it

Lucifer and the fallen angels were in the life and abode in the truth then they sinned and abode not and are headed for the lake of fire

 

[LoveofTruth]

And if we walk away from God? And if we do, he is not leaving us to our own devices, we are....our choice.

and here is a good verse to consider as well

2 Chronicles 15:2
"...The Lord is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if yeforsake him, he will forsake you."

 

[-57]

Well,
osas is finally true after someone dies, if they did endure to the end.
Before they die, "they will be saved" if they endure to the end.
The 'doctrine', though, of osas
with all the strings attached
might cause more people to fall away,
to actually finally die
without CHRIST
instead of IN CHRIST JESUS,
by giving a false idea regardless of reality
that they're already permanently
forever saved before they die, and
this idea being given and imposed and
believed BEFORE they get saved to start with.

I would advise against using the "If we endure to the end" verse taken from taken from Matt 10:22 and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

When used to show one can lose their salvation the verse is taken out of context.
One only has to read the chapter and they can see it really isn't about what we typically consider as salvation but rather about the end times.
In this chapter we need to ask, saved from what? Endures what? To the end of what? This chapter isn't speaking of the John 3:16 salvation.

 

[-57]

also Judas was a sheep sent to the LOST sheep and given power to cast out devils. He was saved and then lost it

How do you know Judas was saved?

 

[-57]

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greaterthan all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.

Kinda sums it up. Eternal life, never perish, can't be snatched out of Gods hand.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I would advise against using the "If we endure to the end" verse taken from taken from Matt 10:22 and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

When used to show one can lose their salvation the verse is taken out of context.
One only has to read the chapter and they can see it really isn't about what we typically consider as salvation but rather about the end times.
In this chapter we need to ask, saved from what? Endures what? To the end of what? This chapter isn't speaking of the John 3:16 salvation.

heres another section similar

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;(Hebrews 3:12-14 KJV)

 

[LoveofTruth]

How do you know Judas was saved?

you may want to read my post here

Judas was once saved and lost it...

 

[LoveofTruth]

John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand. 29My Father who has given them to Me is greaterthan all. No one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.

Kinda sums it up. Eternal life, never perish, can't be snatched out of Gods hand.

no read this

"15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.(1 John 3:15 KJV)

Jesus Christ is eternal life (1 John 1:1,2 etc)

 

[LoveofTruth]

I would advise against using the "If we endure to the end" verse taken from taken from Matt 10:22 and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

When used to show one can lose their salvation the verse is taken out of context.
One only has to read the chapter and they can see it really isn't about what we typically consider as salvation but rather about the end times.
In this chapter we need to ask, saved from what? Endures what? To the end of what? This chapter isn't speaking of the John 3:16 salvation.

or

26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:"

and

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

 

[LoveofTruth]

I would advise against using the "If we endure to the end" verse taken from taken from Matt 10:22 and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

When used to show one can lose their salvation the verse is taken out of context.
One only has to read the chapter and they can see it really isn't about what we typically consider as salvation but rather about the end times.
In this chapter we need to ask, saved from what? Endures what? To the end of what? This chapter isn't speaking of the John 3:16 salvation.

I believe Jesus is talking about salvation in Matthew 10

 

[-57]

heres another section similar

12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;(Hebrews 3:12-14 KJV)

Where is the loss of salvation mentioned here?

 

[-57]

no read this

"15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.(1 John 3:15 KJV)

Jesus Christ is eternal life (1 John 1:1,2 etc)

I really feel sorry for you. I know in your lifetime you have hated someone or will hate some one.

Perhaps you took the verse out of context?

 

[LoveofTruth]

Where is the loss of salvation mentioned here?

For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"

if we do not then Christ shall profit us nothing and we will not be a partaker of Christ and depart from God through and evil heart of unbelief. To depart from God is not to be with God. and not to be in God.

and we read in that chapter

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death