Christ is the end of the law

[bloodygrace]

I wonder why that is so very hard to comprehend. My only thought is that they are programed to believe something and no matter what the Holy Writ is telling us they proceed in their own ways. I remember if I wanted a piece of pie I had to do something to earn it. That is a difficult thought to break.

This is what it really boils down to. The law keepers want to earn heaven. And the gospel believers (many of whom are reformed law keepers) realize that it is only by the unmerited grace of Christ. Law versus Grace the eternal battle rages on.

 

[disciple1]

This is what it really boils down to. The law keepers want to earn heaven. And the gospel believers (many of whom are reformed law keepers) realize that it is only by the unmerited grace of Christ. Law versus Grace the eternal battle rages on.

Love is everything, God is love.
Jeremiah 22:16New International Version (NIV)
16 He defended the cause of the poor and needy,
and so all went well.
Is that not what it means to know me?”
declares the Lord.

Matthew 7:21-23New International Version (NIV)
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[Soyeong]

Paul states point blank that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone that believes - Rom. 10:4.

So when God commands something and you think Paul said that we no longer need to follow God's commands, when it comes down to it, are you a follower of God or of Paul? God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), so the way to act according to God's righteousness is eternal, which means that all of His righteous Laws are likewise eternal (Psalms 119:160). God had no need to do away with His righteous standard, nor did He, and nor should we want Him to.

Romans 10:4 Christ is the goal of the Law, which leads to righteousness for all who have faith in God.

The word "end" has within it range of meanings "intention" or "aim", as does the Greek word "telos". Saying that a relationship with Christ is the goal of the Law would be keeping in context with the previous verses with regard to the racing terms and why Israel failed to obtain righteousness, as well as the rest of the Bible, where as saying that Christ ended God's righteous standard would put it at odds with the surrounding context and the rest of the Bible.

According to John 5:46, Jesus said that Moses wrote about him, according to Luke 24:27, Jesus began with Moses and the Prophets interpreting to them all things in Scripture concerning himself, and in Hebrews 10:7, it says that the totality of the scroll is written about him, so the Law "points toward" or is "directed at" relationship with him and a relationship with him based on faith and love is the goal at which the Law aims.

Belief or faith is the only requirement under the gospel which sweeps away all the works of man.

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, so repentance from what God has revealed to be sin is core to the Gospel message. You can't believe that Jesus is Lord while refusing to submit to him as Lord and you can't have faith in to guide you in how you should live while refusing to follow his example.

The glorious good news of the gospel is that Justification is a universal and finished fact.

Justification has always been by by faith, and by the same faith we are to obey God's commands.

Those that try to keep the law in the age of grace are basically saying with their works that they reject the finished work of Christ.

Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

Our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good and trained to renounce doing what is ungodly, yet you would have us believe that in this age of grace we don't need this training. Furthermore, you are advocating going back to the Lawlessness that Christ gave himself to redeem us from and you are speaking against those people of God's own possession who are zealous for good works in obedience to the Law (Acts 21:20), thus rejecting the finished work of Christ to set you free from sinning in disobedience to the Law.

Next two impossible situations are presented with ascending into heaven to bring Christ down or descending into the deep to raise Christ from the dead. The old saying of climbing the highest mountain or crossing the farthest ocean comes to mind where men will do the hardest things imaginable instead of just living by faith and trust in Christ. We attain righteousness thru no works, no wisdom, no effort, no wealth and no honor. Many want to be regarded as righteous because they know much, read much, teach much or because they do great service in the church but all this is rejected by God. We only obtain the true righteousness of Christ by believing sincerely the promises of God.

Righteousness has only ever come by faith and faith has always required obedience. Every example of faith listed in Hebrews 11 is also an example of obedience. If you sincerely believed the promises of God, then you would not reject His Law because He promised a redeemer from Lawlessness.

 

[bugkiller]

Matthew 7:21-23New International Version (NIV)
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

The will of the Father is -

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. I JN 3

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. JN 15

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. JN 13

bugkiller

 

[Soyeong]

This is what it really boils down to. The law keepers want to earn heaven. And the gospel believers (many of whom are reformed law keepers) realize that it is only by the unmerited grace of Christ. Law versus Grace the eternal battle rages on.

I have never suggested anything like that we need to keep the Law in order to earn heaven. Not even when the Law was given was that stated as one of its purposes.

There as never been battle between God's Law and God's grace, as though a house divided against itself could stand. According to Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching Him his Law. According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of the Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience that faith requires. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is Lawful and to renounce Lawlessness. According to Jude 1:4, ungodly people pervert God's grace into a licences to sin, which is defined as Lawlessness (1 John 3:4). According to Strong's, "grace" is defined as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His commands. So God's grace is not opposed to His Law, but rather it is by God's grace through faith that we are trained to obey His Law.

 

[bloodygrace]

According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of the Christ was added upon the grace of the Law.

Grace of the law, lol.

 

[bugkiller]

So when God commands something and you think Paul said that we no longer need to follow God's commands, when it comes down to it, are you a follower of God or of Paul? God's righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), so the way to act according to God's righteousness is eternal, which means that all of His righteous Laws are likewise eternal (Psalms 119:160). God had no need to do away with His righteous standard, nor did He, and nor should we want Him to.

What a question - follow God or Paul? This is a dismissal of Paul as someone opposed to God. You really expect us to believe that? Really?

Romans 10:4 Christ is the goal of the Law, which leads to righteousness for all who have faith in God.

The word "end" has within it range of meanings "intention" or "aim", as does the Greek word "telos". Saying that a relationship with Christ is the goal of the Law would be keeping in context with the previous verses with regard to the racing terms and why Israel failed to obtain righteousness, as well as the rest of the Bible, where as saying that Christ ended God's righteous standard would put it at odds with the surrounding context and the rest of the Bible.

Why are you even quoting Paul? In racing terms Jesus Christ crossed the finish line, while no one else ever has when it comes to the law. Read Issiah's lament in 63:17 or the fact stated in PS 14:3 since you do not like Paul.

Sorry but I do not understand your presentation of "end." I looked up both "telos" and "end," neither of which match your definition(s). "Telos means termination and so does "end."

According to John 5:46, Jesus said that Moses wrote about him, according to Luke 24:27, Jesus began with Moses and the Prophets interpreting to them all things in Scripture concerning himself, and in Hebrews 10:7, it says that the totality of the scroll is written about him, so the Law "points toward" or is "directed at" relationship with him and a relationship with him based on faith and love is the goal at which the Law aims.



Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, so repentance from what God has revealed to be sin is core to the Gospel message. You can't believe that Jesus is Lord while refusing to submit to him as Lord and you can't have faith in to guide you in how you should live while refusing to follow his example.

I JN 2:6 is not requiring anyone to keep the law or religious practice. Jesus said -

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. JN 15

No where will anyone find Jesus requiring the keeping of the law. The above verse makes that very clear.

Justification has always been by by faith, and by the same faith we are to obey God's commands.

No sir. Justification in the OC was by keeping the law by rote to the letter. It had nothing to do with faith.

Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

Please note it does not say the law bringing salvation. It clearly says "GRACE."

Our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good and trained to renounce doing what is ungodly, yet you would have us believe that in this age of grace we don't need this training. Furthermore, you are advocating going back to the Lawlessness that Christ gave himself to redeem us from and you are speaking against those people of God's own possession who are zealous for good works in obedience to the Law (Acts 21:20), thus rejecting the finished work of Christ to set you free from sinning in disobedience to the Law.

Had to read this twice to understand what you said. My conclusion is nope.

Righteousness has only ever come by faith and faith has always required obedience. Every example of faith listed in Hebrews 11 is also an example of obedience. If you sincerely believed the promises of God, then you would not reject His Law because He promised a redeemer from Lawlessness.

The required obedience is not of the law, but of Jesus. The examples of obedience in Heb 11 is not of the law.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Grace of the law, lol.

Yeah that is a good one, ain't it.

bugkiller

 

[Soyeong]

Grace of the law, lol.

Psalms 119:29 Put false ways far from me and graciously teach me your law!

Was God teaching David to obey His law an expression of His grace?

 

[bugkiller]

I have never suggested anything like that we need to keep the Law in order to earn heaven. Not even when the Law was given was that stated as one of its purposes.

There as never been battle between God's Law and God's grace, as though a house divided against itself could stand. According to Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching Him his Law. According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of the Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace to bring about the obedience that faith requires. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is Lawful and to renounce Lawlessness. According to Jude 1:4, ungodly people pervert God's grace into a licences to sin, which is defined as Lawlessness (1 John 3:4). According to Strong's, "grace" is defined as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives, it takes the form of obedience to His commands. So God's grace is not opposed to His Law, but rather it is by God's grace through faith that we are trained to obey His Law.

Keep working on it. You will get there yet. You are really conflicted.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Psalms 119:29 Put false ways far from me and graciously teach me your law!

Was teaching David to obey His Law a way that God showed His grace to him?

How far do you want to stretch it? Your verse has nothing to do with grace.

bugkiller

 

[bloodygrace]

Psalms 119:29 Put false ways far from me and graciously teach me your law!

Was God teaching David to obey His law an expression of His grace?

Grace means unmerited favor. I don't do anything to receive grace I just have to accept it by faith. If I try to do anything to merit God's grace I end up losing it. Christians who fall from grace go into a never ending cycle of law keeping with a broken faith.

 

[Soyeong]

Grace means unmerited favor. I don't do anything to receive grace I just have to accept it by faith. If I try to do anything to merit God's grace I end up losing it. Christians who fall from grace go into a never ending cycle of law keeping with a broken faith.

Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

Do you agree that our salvation involves God's grace training us to do what is godly, righteous, and good and to renounce doing what is ungodly and sinful? Do you also agree that the Mosaic Law was given to instruct His people how to do what is godly, righteous, and good and to renounce doing what is ungodly and sinful? Strong's defines "grace" as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life", which is again being influenced to do something and is reflecting this influence through our actions. Do you also agree that Jesus gave himself to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works? These good works done by grace in obedience to God's commands are done because we love Him and have faith in him about how we should live, not in order to merit favor or grace. Likewise Jesus didn't give himself to redeem us from all Lawlessness so that we could continue to be Lawless, but so that we would be free to become obedient servants:

Romans 6:15-19 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,[c] you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.

 

[bloodygrace]

Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, 12 training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, 13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

Do you agree that our salvation involves God's grace training us to do what is godly, righteous, and good and to renounce doing what is ungodly and sinful? Do you also agree that the Mosaic Law was given to instruct His people how to do what is godly, righteous, and good and to renounce doing what is ungodly and sinful? Strong's defines "grace" as "the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life", which is again being influenced to do something and is reflecting this influence through our actions. Do you also agree that Jesus gave himself to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works? These good works done by grace in obedience to God's commands are done because we love Him and have faith in him about how we should live, not in order to merit favor or grace. Likewise Jesus didn't give himself to redeem us from all Lawlessness so that we could continue to be Lawlessness, but so that we would be free to become obedient servants.

Your faith is so weak that you are unable to grasp that the law is abolished for believers. The law had jurisdiction over Israel until the time of reformation when Christ appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. He literally fulfilled every type and shadow of the law so now he has jurisdiction over the people of God making the law obsolete.

 

[Soyeong]

Your faith is so weak that you are unable to grasp that the law is abolished for believers. The law had jurisdiction over Israel until the time of reformation when Christ appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. He literally fulfilled every type and shadow of the law so now he has jurisdiction over the people of God making the law obsolete.

You avoided the simple questions. It clearly states that God's grace trains us to do what is godly, yet when I say that we should follow God's instructions for how to what is godly, you say that those instructions are opposed to God's grace.

God said that what He commanded was for His people's own good and I believe what God said is true and show my faith through practicing obedience to His commands, whereas you do not have enough faith in God to practice obedience to them, so it is absurd for you to say that I am the one with weak faith. James said that faith without works is dead, yet you reject God's instructions for how to do good works. Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all Lawlessness, not so that we could continue to be Lawless. He fulfilled the Law by fully teaching his followers how to obey it by word and by example. The Law is God's Word and Jesus is God's Word made flesh, so you are essentially arguing that he made himself obsolete.

 

[bugkiller]

You avoided the simple questions. It clearly states that God's grace trains us to do what is godly, yet when I say that we should follow God's instructions for how to what is godly, you say that those instructions are opposed to God's grace.

God said that what He commanded was for His people's own good and I believe what God said is true and show my faith through practicing obedience to His commands, whereas you do not have enough faith in God to practice obedience to them, so it is absurd for you to say that I am the one with weak faith. James said that faith without works is dead, yet you reject God's instructions for how to do good works. Jesus gave himself to redeems us from all Lawlessness, not so that we could continue to be Lawless. He fulfilled the Law by fully teaching his followers how to obey it by word and by example. The Law is God's Word and Jesus is God's Word made flesh, so you are essentially arguing that he made himself obsolete.

Among many other passages I fully believe and accepted this invitation -

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Mat 11

The burdens of Jesus are very light -

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. JN 13

bugkiller

 

[SAAN]

Grace means unmerited favor. I don't do anything to receive grace I just have to accept it by faith. If I try to do anything to merit God's grace I end up losing it. Christians who fall from grace go into a never ending cycle of law keeping with a broken faith.

We have Grace to repent because we break the commandments

 

[SAAN]

Your faith is so weak that you are unable to grasp that the law is abolished for believers. The law had jurisdiction over Israel until the time of reformation when Christ appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. He literally fulfilled every type and shadow of the law so now he has jurisdiction over the people of God making the law obsolete.

If the law is obsolete, the Loving one another and Loving God is also obsolete, because they came straight from the law and is what Christ expanded on when he told us to love one another and that the entire law and the prophets are summed up and Love God and love one another.

You make no sense and dont even agree with your own theology. If the entire law of God is obsolete, there is no point in witnessing to others about Christ, because since we have no law, there is no sin. because sin is transgression of the law, so a unbeliever has nothing to repent for.

So remember, No law equals abolishing Loving God and One another and pretty much cancels out the New Testament, since it is based on the laws of the OT, since all of the NT was referring to how they living according to the Torah.
Leviticus 19:18
18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

Deuteronomy 6:5-7
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.


Jesus put an end to the animal sacrifice system and his blood is what covers our sins now and not the blood of animals.

 

[SAAN]

Among many other passages I fully believe and accepted this invitation -

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Mat 11

The burdens of Jesus are very light -

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. JN 13

bugkiller

Jesus Yoke is easy because he removed all the hundreds of added laws of the Pharisees that made obeying the actual law a complete burden.

 

[A Freeman]

This is what it really boils down to. The law keepers want to earn heaven. And the gospel believers (many of whom are reformed law keepers) realize that it is only by the unmerited grace of Christ. Law versus Grace the eternal battle rages on.

No, that's what Satan and his ministers would like everyone to believe so he can continue to deceive people to do the exact opposite of what Christ teaches and what we've been COMMANDED to do for our own individual and collective benefit.

"Think NOT that I came to destroy The Law" which means EXACTLY that.

"Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in NO WAY pass from The Law" means EXACTLY that; i.e. The Law is STILL in effect today, and always will be.

These are Christ's TRUE Teachings and are directly from Him. And He likewise made it clear in this passage (Matt. 5:17-20) that anyone who teaches differently is the lowest of the low (the least) in God's Eyes.

God's Grace period, so that all may stop sinning/breaking The Law (i.e. stop being criminals), is almost up. Stop being so stupid, selfish and arrogant and start DOING what we've been COMMANDED to do upon pain of death for our own good.

Christ is THE Master/Teacher, NOT Paul. And besides, Paul made it crystal clear that The Law is holy, just and good, that he himself was not only keeping The Law but establishing it everywhere he went, and that only those who actually keep The Law shall be justified.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore The Law [is] holy, and the Commandment holy, and just, and good.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind (Being) I myself serve The Law of God; but with the flesh (human) the law of sin.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void The Law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish The Law.

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of The Law [are] just before God, but the DOERS of The Law (The Torah) SHALL be justified.

If you're not keeping The Law then you don't know Christ and cannot learn from Him how to be in God's Good Graces, which obviously is through obedience to God and His Law in ALL things (i.e. DOING His Will here on Earth as it is done by everyone in heaven).

I John 2:3-4
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep His Commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth NOT His Commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is NOT in him.

God doesn't want you to disobey His Perfect Law. Satan does. And while no one will ever earn their way into heaven by keeping The Law, it at least shows God we love and trust Him (Faith) and are genuinely striving to repent of our evil/sins/crimes (breaking His Law).

Read James' beautiful letter to you and learn to sing the New Song.