Marvin Knox
Senior Veteran
No - it's not hard to understand at all.I don't understand what this means. Election to service means that all believers have been elected to serve God. Is that difficult to understand?
No - I have not ignored it. As well as arguing from the salvation position I have also argued under the assumption that your "proof" does indeed make election about service.I proved that election is about service, but you've ignored it.
Sure. Who said I didn't. I would like you to see the connection between that service and salvation. But I realize that is too much to ask of you so I'll let it go for another time.Do you not see the direct connection between Paul's election and service?
Here is the clarification:Your age has nothing to do with election. He elected you for service as a believer. And He did that before the foundation of the world.....I don't understand. Please clarify.
He elected me before the foundation of the world and therefore before I was a believer. Since I was not a believer when I was elected - it is disingenuous to keep saying that he elected a believer - as if to deny that there was predestination involved in His election of me.
That's you purpose in your posing the statement the way that you do rather then the way it should be stated ---- namely that He elected a future person to be of service to Him (through salvation of course but I don't expect you to be honest enough to say that you see that necessity to be of the kind of service He desired).
You pretend to not know what is being said and why. That too is dishonest since we all know that you do understand my point.
Same old FreeGrace2. You don't change at all when it comes to playing games here.
No - the issue is not that. The issue you are ducking is that what ever election in unto (salvation or service) - it was done before time and therefore represents inescapable predestination on God's part.And that isn't the issue. The issue is: elected to what? Or, elected for what purpose? That is the issue. Which I've shown to be for service, not salvation.
You are trying to mislead everyone by avoiding what the real point is. Namely that God predestinated us to service as you say.There is no way being technically correct should mislead anyone. And I disagree with trying to equate election with spending eternity as part of His body, which is just another way of expressing the Calvinist doctrine that God elects people to salvation by choosing who will believe.
Considering the examples of service you have used He had to of necessity also predestine us to salvation. But I don't expect you to be honest enough to say that you see that. (which you do).
No. That's why I have granted you that even though you will not grant that that service requires salvation to accomplish and that it was predestined before time and not in time when we were believers.I've been very clear about what election means: to be elected or chosen for service. How is that hard to understand?
The point, again, is that all election is prior to believing and therefore involves predestination by the creator.
No kidding. And "we" were predestined (elected, chosen etc.) before becoming believers. That's the point and the only point you are avoiding..The word "us" in 1:4 is defined in 1:19 as "believers".
Of course you do. Don't add out and out lying to what you have done here.I have no idea why anyone would think what I have posted regarding election would be regarded as a misrepresentation.
That's not "all" you have done. You have studiously tried to escape the inescapable implications of God's predestination of us and our service (and our salvation which must precede that service). (That's what I mean by "cast around".)What does "cast around" mean? What I've done is clearly express what the Bible says clearly.
My claim is that God predestined service before we were believers. It is correct.But I'm not wrong. Your claim is.
Your claim that God predestined "believers" for service, while technically correct, is wrong (sin) in that it purposefully tries to avoid what God has clearly taught in the scriptures.
I have - in great detail.You're going to have to explain how anything I've posted could be seen as misleading.
You may feel that your gamesmanship is slick and cute. But I believe, as does God, that it is akin to lying and therefore sin.
If you continue to studiously avoid the implications of election and predestination I will leave you to it if I can resist checking back in. As usual I haven't been very good at leaving you to it.
I'll try harder. If I am successful - you will have the last word on the subject.
Upvote
0