Immaculate Conception?

[Albion]

But how can the Holy Spirit be mixed with a sinful seed of women?

That's part of the speculation, all right. But if God can become one of his creatures, if God can LIVE AND FUNCTION in a physical world that's full of sin, I am sure that he can be conceived in the womb of a human woman, sinner or not.

 

[miknik5]

I don't agree with that.

Jesus was fully man and fully God.

Jesus was sinless.

But he came from his mother Mary, and from the Holy Spirit/God.

I would say Mary needed to be at least saved, or have the Holy Spirit. Or maybe even sinless, in order to give birth to our Lord.

I'm not saying we should worship or pray to Mary, But this is the birth of God himself.

I like how you pointed that they all gave Glory to God.

Why was Mary full of grace and what does that mean

Because she was chosen as the vessel for and as a servant (handmaiden) of GOD to be the mother to bear and bring into the world THE SON

How else could HE come into the world in flesh but as a son

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

That's part of the speculation, all right. But if God can become one of his creatures, if God can LIVE AND FUNCTION in a physical world that's full of sin, I am sure that he can be conceived in the womb of a human woman, sinner or not.

It is all a miracle, I agree.

I know in scripture interbreeding between holy line and immoral line was sinful. If I am correct Israel could not breed with Canaanite?

Thats why I am a bit spectical, because wouldn't God make everything perfect for Christ? Of course he is able to to either way.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Because she was chosen as the vessel for and as a servant (handmaiden) of GOD to be the mother to bear and bring into the world THE SON

How else could HE come into the world in flesh but as a son

I agree, I just am getting stuck on the Holy Spirit (not sure what word you would use here, making a seed/impregnating) a sinful women.

My natural view would be Holy must be mixed with Holy, not Holy with a sinner

 

[FireDragon76]

That's part of the speculation, all right. But if God can become one of his creatures, if God can LIVE AND FUNCTION in a physical world that's full of sin, I am sure that he can be conceived in the womb of a human woman, sinner or not.

And yet in the OT we see people dying from touching the Ark of the Covenant inadvertantly. All the Jewish religious rituals were to allow sinful mortals to commune with God without dying.

 

[Albion]

It is all a miracle, I agree.

I know in scripture interbreeding between holy line and immoral line was sinful. If I am correct Israel could not breed with Canaanite?

Thats why I am a bit spectical, because wouldn't God make everything perfect for Christ? Of course he is able to to either way.

As Miknik was thinking, for God to become a human UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES basically destroys that nicety. And, in fact, many Christians would argue that this--God deigning to lower himself to be one of us, as a helpless baby, born in a cave or manger, etc.--is part of the idea of him coming to us. He could, of course, have come as a mighty king in the clouds waving his hand and proclaiming that all men are now forgiven their sins.

 

[FireDragon76]

As Miknik was thinking, for God to become a human UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES basically destroys that nicety. And, in fact, many Christians would argue that this--God deigning to lower himself to be one of us, as a helpless baby, born in a cave or manger, etc.--is part of the idea of him coming to us. He could, of course, have come as a mighty king in the clouds waving his hand and proclaiming that all men are now forgiven their sins.

Then wouldn't it be fitting the first person he saved or purified from sin would be his own mother?

 

[miknik5]

No he did not,

You responded to a poster that JESUS did not reveal HIS GLORY while in the womb

Yes, HE did
HE did for Elizabeth and John
(who was also in the womb)

 

[Albion]

And yet in the OT we see people dying from touching the Ark of the Covenant inadvertantly. All the Jewish religious rituals were to allow sinful mortals to commune with God without dying.

Yes, but again, that's 'people.' I don't see any reason to limit the Creator to the procedures he's imposed upon his own creatures.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

You responded to a poster that JESUS did not reveal HIS GLORY while in the womb

Yes, HE did
HE did for Elizabeth and John
(who was also in the womb)

Sorry your right, I felt like I was being cornered!

 

[Albion]

Then wouldn't it be fitting the first person he saved or purified from sin would be his own mother?

Saved, yes. And perhaps that is the case. But the Immaculate Conception is something else.

 

[PrettyboyAndy]

Yes, but again, that's 'people.' I don't see any reason to limit the Creator to the procedures he's imposed upon his own creatures.

But you would expect God to obey them or live in those confines, especially since he fulfilled all the laws, never sinned, was temped just as we were.

I'm still not certain about Holy Spirit impregnating/creating seed with a sinner.

 

[Albion]

But you would expect God to obey them or live in those confines, especially since he fulfilled all the laws, never sinned, was temped just as we were.

That's why I chose the word "procedures" for my reply. I think that what FireDragon was referring to--being struck dead for touching the Ark of the Covenant--is of a different character from what you have in mind.

 

[miknik5]

Then wouldn't it be fitting the first person he saved or purified from sin would be his own mother?

Yes I agree.
And also our "Mother"


In that just as "Eve", as the mother of all living who would as a result of sin, bear and bring forth all future children of perishable seed marked for death (the result of sin entering and effecting all)
Mary, the Mother, brought forth the SECOND and ETERNAL ADAM through whom all who believe are reborn of THE IMPERISHABLE SEED of CHRIST and marked for LIFE

 

[miknik5]

As Miknik was thinking, for God to become a human UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES basically destroys that nicety. And, in fact, many Christians would argue that this--God deigning to lower himself to be one of us, as a helpless baby, born in a cave or manger, etc.--is part of the idea of him coming to us. He could, of course, have come as a mighty king in the clouds waving his hand and proclaiming that all men are now forgiven their sins.

But then all would have perished

No one, unless they had the "RIGHT COVERING" could cone into the PRESENCE of the FULL
and HOLY GLORY of GOD

We lost that privilege when we were sent out from THE ORIGINAL HOME

 

[miknik5]

The reason why GOD covered HIS GLORY in our covering (flesh) and came to us

For had HE come to us in HIS FULL GLORY all would have perished

 

[CrystalDragon]

It's not a blessing to be sent out from the original and holy presence of full fellowship with GOD to be covered in a tainted covering and the way blocked lest we eat from the "TREE OF LIFE"

That's not a blessing

Question: if we were still in "the Original Home" (which by the sound of it doesn't seem like it was infinite or anything so it would have become too crowded to fit everyone, anyway, since things existed outside the Garden anyway, the Garden was the only "perfect" area, or almost perfect), what would we be doing?

 

[miknik5]

But you would expect God to obey them or live in those confines, especially since he fulfilled all the laws, never sinned, was temped just as we were.

I'm still not certain about Holy Spirit impregnating/creating seed with a sinner.

Romans 1:3 through Romans 1:4 has that answer

HE was according to the flesh (the likeness of) a son of David, but according to THE HOLY SPIRIT, HOLY...THE SON of GOD

CHRIST didn't earn THE HOLY SPIRIT

HE humbled HIMSELF and came in the pattern of man to save the children who are of flesh

HE came in our likeness so that we might be covered over in HIS COVERING and made into HIS likeness

THE WORD made flesh who dwelt amongst us

 

[miknik5]

Question: if we were still in "the Original Home" (which by the sound of it doesn't seem like it was infinite or anything so it would have become too crowded to fit everyone, anyway, since things existed outside the Garden anyway, the Garden was the only "perfect" area, or almost perfect), what would we be doing?

We never were destined for it by or through our own attempts. It was a starting place to bring us to THE ONE who would take us home

 

[Albion]

But then all would have perished

No one, unless they had the "RIGHT COVERING" could cone into the PRESENCE of the FULL
and HOLY GLORY of GOD

We lost that privilege when we were sent out from THE ORIGINAL HOME

We're deep into "what ifs" now, but I'd say that the shepherds and wise men were no more covered at Jesus' birth than God could have provided for everyone if he'd come in some other way.