What do we gain?

[OldWiseGuy]

Because he doesn't understand addiction, he thinks its a choice, and addicts choose to stay that way, in his own words...

"Why don't addicts seek help rather than committing crimes? It seems like a conscious decision to avoid being helped. This defines them as criminals with an addiction"

Very few seek help voluntarily. If they did we wouldn't have a problem.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I agree. This reminds me of the same line of thinking that has some people responding to depression by saying things like just pick yourself up or other people are doing worse or just will yourself to be happy ignoring the fact that depression is the loss of the will to do these things. Quite frustrating.

None of these things actually address the problem people usually place their own discomfort onto others . I'm wondering why the original poster is so angry at people that are suffering.

Because of a lack of resources.

Many become felons as a result of their convictions, which makes it nearly impossible to find a job to support yourself. People stupidly thought if you punish addicts more, it will keep them from being addicted. People don't fall into addiction in a sound state of mind.

So these people were mentally flawed even before they started using drugs, and using drugs confirms it? I think you're on to something here; the predisposition for harmful and illegal behaviors.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

That wont stop their addition. As soon as they get out. They start using again.

Then they should stay treatment in longer.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Then they should stay in treatment longer the next time.

One of the reasons for longer sentences for criminals is to reduce crime, knowing that many will reoffend upon release. Perhaps we should incarcerate them until they leave the 'life phase' they are in and hope their maturity will change their behavior (as happened to Red in "The Shawshank Redemption".

 

[JD16]

Very few seek help voluntarily. If they did we wouldn't have a problem.

The problem is, society stigmatise them, most are social outcast and are suffering in silence. To be addicted to an illicit substance is very different from nicotine addiction, the cycle of craving, seeking behaviour, withdrawal symptoms are a lot more intense compared to nicotine.

 

[JD16]

So these people were mentally flawed even before they started using drugs, and using drugs confirms it? I think you're on to something here; the predisposition for harmful and illegal behaviors.

And some are more predispose to addictive behaviours, how our individual minds are wired

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The problem is, society stigmatise them, most are social outcast and are suffering in silence. To be addicted to an illicit substance is very different from nicotine addiction, the cycle of craving, seeking behaviour, withdrawal symptoms are a lot more intense compared to nicotine.

Society does impose shame upon them, and rightly so. They destroy what we are trying to build.

 

[JD16]

Society does impose shame upon them, and rightly so. They destroy what we are trying to build.

IMO that is counter productive to what we are trying to achieve, if we view them as criminals instead of victims, it would only exacerbate the problem,...just my 2 cents

 

[Desk trauma]

I smoked for fifteen years, never stole to obtain cigarettes, and quit without help from anyone (although it took several attempts). That was 47 years ago.

Your drug of choice just happened to be legal and didn't come with the inflated prices prohibition creates. You were also under no legal threat from your use and allowed to use or abstain on your own terms. Yet you expect different from others who are not so lucky.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Your drug of choice just happened to be legal and didn't come with the inflated prices prohibition creates. You were also under no legal threat from your use and allowed to use or abstain on your own terms. Yet you expect different from others who are not so lucky.

Tell that to bhsmte (post # 21). The point was addiction, not cost or legality.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

IMO that is counter productive to what we are trying to achieve, if we view them as criminals instead of victims, it would only exacerbate the problem,...just my 2 cents

We don't view thieves as "victims".

We can't achieve 'good apples' if we leave the bad ones in the barrel. People that use drugs lack the most fundamental concepts of right and wrong.

 

[bhsmte]

Over simplified approaches and understanding, to complex problems typically fall short.

 

[Greg J.]

....by helping drug addicts, beside feeling good? We now have an epidemic of dangerous heroin use with hundreds dying each month across the country, costing millions that we don't have. Shouldn't we, as a society, just let them reap the fruit of their bad decisions? Of course family and friends can spend their money, time, and emotions if they choose, but why should the nation go bankrupt trying save every lost soul?

Re: What do we gain?

We gain self-respect. We gain a society in which everyone has reason to hope, recognizing that some day we might be that person. We have the opportunity to express compassion. They have the opportunity to experience love.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Then they should stay treatment in longer.

Who's paying for this. Last I heard Conservative Christians don't like to pay for drug addicts getting help. Or any kind of programs, that the poor people need. Also many drug addicts are in and out of treatment centers.

 

[durangodawood]

Apples and oranges.

Red delicious and granny smith.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Red delicious and granny smith.

Red Delicious are almost always picked too green. Bought a bag in Washington State once. Hard as a rock and green as grass. Tossed them to the squirrels. Not sure I've every had a Granny Smith. (Where's the oranges?)

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Who's paying for this. Last I heard Conservative Christians don't like to pay for drug addicts getting help. Or any kind of programs, that the poor people need. Also many drug addicts are in and out of treatment centers.

Under my plan the residents would contribute their labor to help run the facility. We don't like to pay. We prefer that those getting the treatment bear most of the expenses. They aren't usually handicapped where work is concerned. The idea that everyone else should turn their pockets inside out for these people is nonsense.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Re: What do we gain?

We gain self-respect. We gain a society in which everyone has reason to hope, recognizing that some day we might be that person. We have the opportunity to express compassion. They have the opportunity to experience love.

Why do I feel like a fool by giving them a free pass? Where's my self-respect?

 

[Dave-W]

(Where's the oranges?)

Moros. (aka blood oranges)

 

[Desk trauma]

Under my plan the residents would contribute their labor to help run the facility. We don't like to pay. We prefer that those getting the treatment bear most of the expenses. They aren't usually handicapped where work is concerned. The idea that everyone else should turn their pockets inside out for these people is nonsense.

Involuntary commitment and forced labor for using drugs you disapprove of. Personal responsibility and individual indeed.