I've been drinking --- So I've got something I want to say.

[Cosmic Charlie]

I’m not having a good 2017. Not at all. Not. At. All. But that's all personal.

I’m here because I'm still a pretty good mercy sakes political analyst. And this is where I come when no one cares what an aging boomer with a drinking problem (I quit smoking, give me a break) says.

And those danged Millennial Bernie Bros ought to care I’ve only been at this for about 48 mercy sakes years.

(I feel like one of those guys telling little kids to get off the lawn)

Anyway…..

I said in 2010 that the GOP would rue the day the hanged the “Obamacare” label on the ACA. I thought the rue-age would be imminent. I was wrong. But it’s starting and will be ashes in the mouth of Paulie Ryan and his band of merry Randians. It already is in the mouth of Mitch McConnell and hollow Senate majority.

It’s over.

The ACA is Obamacare to everyone in the country and they LOVE Obamacare. (52% with a bullet- ok it’s taking some time). It took them long enough. Most people thought the ACA and Obamacare were two difference things for the last 6 years. They finally figured it out – When the GOP House had a chance to take it away.

I’m not here to gloat, there’s enough of that going on. I’m not here to offer solutions, the Dems have got that under control (I wasn’t sure they had it in them, but they might get Medicare for all if they play their cards right).

I’m here to point out (seven years down the road) what an accomplishment the ACA was. It changed the conversation, changed the way people look at healthcare, changed the country. It cost Obama most of his first term, the Dems the House and later the Senate, maybe even the Supreme Court of a generation.

But they won. We’re not going back to pre—conditions, livetime caps, “Free Market” insurance, 40 million uninsured because that’s the way Ayn Rand wanted it.

And where was the man whose name graces this unloved, unsung but seminal piece of legislation ?

In his new office in DC, throwing a wine and cheese party for his new staff because, why not ? He’s only the coolest ex-president who ever lived. Story is he didn’t even bother watching the news. He doesn’t have to, his name's on the law Republicans can’t repeal.

And they rue the day……

 

[Colter]

I’m not having a good 2017. Not at all. Not. At. All. But that's all personal.

I’m here because I'm still a pretty good mercy sakes political analyst. And this is where I come when no one cares what an aging boomer with a drinking problem (I quit smoking, give me a break) says.

And those danged Millennial Bernie Bros ought to care I’ve only been at this for about 48 mercy sakes years.

(I feel like one of those guys telling little kids to get off the lawn)

Anyway…..

I said in 2010 that the GOP would rue the day the hanged the “Obamacare” label on the ACA. I thought the rue-age would be imminent. I was wrong. But it’s starting and will be ashes in the mouth of Paulie Ryan and his band of merry Randians. It already is in the mouth of Mitch McConnell and hollow Senate majority.

It’s over.

The ACA is Obamacare to everyone in the country and they LOVE Obamacare. (52% with a bullet- ok it’s taking some time). It took them long enough. Most people thought the ACA and Obamacare were two difference things for the last 6 years. They finally figured it out – When the GOP House had a chance to take it away.

I’m not here to gloat, there’s enough of that going on. I’m not here to offer solutions, the Dems have got that under control (I wasn’t sure they had it in them, but they might get Medicare for all if they play their cards right).

I’m here to point out (seven years down the road) what an accomplishment the ACA was. It changed the conversation, changed the way people look at healthcare, changed the country. It cost Obama most of his first term, the Dems the House and later the Senate, maybe even the Supreme Court of a generation.

But they won. We’re not going back to pre—conditions, livetime caps, “Free Market” insurance, 40 million uninsured because that’s the way Ayn Rand wanted it.

And where was the man whose name graces this unloved, unsung but seminal piece of legislation ?

In his new office in DC, throwing a wine and cheese party for his new staff because, why not ? He’s only the coolest ex-president who ever lived. Story is he didn’t even bother watching the news. He doesn’t have to, his name's on the law Republicans can’t repeal.

And they rue the day……

A socialist turd is still a turd. The fraud of the ACA will continue to effect the responsible citizens who already had insurance but now have to pay for the newly arriving customers who were forced to buy insurance via threat if the IRS. The theory that this is over overlooks the fact that the pain of the ACA was delayed. In the coming 24-36 months the fit is going to keep hitting the shan! The (D)'s will own what they broke.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

I'd be terrified if any of this was in any way true.

A socialist turd is still a turd.

You lack both an understanding of socialism and seem unable to express yourself without crudity. Your high school writing teachers must be proud.

The fraud of the ACA will continue to effect the responsible citizens who already had insurance but now have to pay for the newly arriving customers who were forced to buy insurance via threat if the IRS.

People buying into insurance for protection as a group is how insurance works the more that are in the better Hence the name: Insurance. You can't have people covered and not have people in the pool simultaneously. That's why it's called, you know, insurance.

The theory that this is over overlooks the fact that the pain of the ACA was delayed.

The "theory" of what "overlooks" what and what "pain is being being delayed"?

You don't know do you ? This is just a Fox noise talking point without basis or foundation.
It's essentially nonsense.

In the coming 24-36 months the fit is going to keep hitting the shan! The (D)'s will own what they broke.

Mmm... yes.

The failure of the ACA has always been just over the horizon for the last 7 years. the CBO has said the neither the ACA nor the AHCA would actually "implode" (it's not actually possible for either to do so and if you understood how insurance works you'd understand why).

And whether you like it, admit it or understand it - the Republicans now own the ACA.

And whether you like it, admit it or understand - This just put the Dems an a very politically advantages position.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

Charlie, do you feel if the Republicans leave Obamacare alone that it is a sustainable alternative?

Can you agree that it was not true when Obama said that premiums would go down or that if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor?

My strategy would have been to leave it alone and let those who inflicted upon us own it.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

Sorry you're having a crummy 2017. My 2016 was hell, this year is being good to me though. Hope it gets better,

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Charlie, do you feel if the Republicans leave Obamacare alone that it is a sustainable alternative?

Sustainable is an odd term to use in this case. The ACA needs work, all complex legislation does, especially when it effects a public policy initiative like healthcare. But rather than actually look at the law, see where it needed improvements and working toward that end the GOP decided it was a good idea to have 50 repeal votes and run on repealing it.

Well, as it transpires people like having healthcare and they aren't going to give it up without a huge fight. So now what a GOPer to do ? You can't repeal it and you can't try to improve it without tinkering with it and the 40 members of the Freedom Caucus will have none of that, so they're stuck. As near as I can tell the only way around all this is to actually work with the Dems on improving the ACA. Not repeal, not replace, improve. And I'm sorry but I don't think Ryan is smart enough nor a good enough leader to pull that off. Trump, on the other hand is both manipulable and really annoyed with his own party. I see an opening for the Dems here

Can you agree that it was not true when Obama said that premiums would go down or that if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor?

True is a funny word to use in this case. When Obama said it it was, in fact, a true statement. There was nothing in the ACA that would stop you from keeping your doctor. But neither he nor the ACA nor Congress could have foreseen the insurance companies actions on the exchanges. Basically the insurance companies goofed with the policies (as is their right and privilege as private companies) to screw up everyone's plans in an attempt to keep their profits as high as possible. But I think we have to come to grips with the fact the insurers did that to you, not the ACA per se.

As far premiums going down is concerned, they have. Just not for most people. Premiums have gone down for people with individual polices when compared to like polices before the ACA. Admittedly that's a small number of people. But more to the point: Health care insurance costs are growing at a much lower rate now then before the ACA and at a lower rate then the CBO predicted in 2010. Also healthcare costs themselves are also growing much slower and we're collectively going to save 600 billion (yes over half a trillion) dollars in healthcare costs by 2020 or maybe 2025 I can't remember because of the ACA.

Now, I just had to write 2 complicated paragraphs to answer your bumper stick soundbite question. And that was part of the problem for Obama and the Dems and is now the problem for the GOP and Trump. This is a big, hard, complex, boring, numbers oriented, statistically derived issue involving a piece of legislation that only one person I know of understands.

My strategy would have been to leave it alone and let those who inflicted upon us own it.

Strategy is an odd word to use for this. If you're in power and chose to do nothing all you're doing is letting the other side take the initiative. Trust me on this the Dems are not going to sit idly by while you ignore the problems with the ACA. They will start making proposals to improve the ACA and doing nothing on your part will not be good for you.

The Republicans are in the same position. They can't repeal the ACA and they can't leave it alone. The Dems are already putting forth the idea of Medicare as an option in the exchanges and lowering the Medicare age to 62, both ideas that WILL lower premiums by taking older people out of the private insurance market . That's going to be the conversation driver from now on, not how do we rid ourselves of the ACA.

The GOP has lost the initiative on this by being unable to take any action on their own.

 

[Colter]

I'd be terrified if any of this was in any way true.



You lack both an understanding of socialism and seem unable to express yourself without crudity. Your high school writing teachers must be proud.





People buying into insurance for protection as a group is how insurance works the more that are in the better Hence the name: Insurance. You can't have people covered and not have people in the pool simultaneously. That's why it's called, you know, insurance.



The "theory" of what "overlooks" what and what "pain is being being delayed"?

You don't know do you ? This is just a Fox noise talking point without basis or foundation.
It's essentially nonsense.




Mmm... yes.

The failure of the ACA has always been just over the horizon for the last 7 years. the CBO has said the neither the ACA nor the AHCA would actually "implode" (it's not actually possible for either to do so and if you understood how insurance works you'd understand why).

And whether you like it, admit it or understand it - the Republicans now own the ACA.

And whether you like it, admit it or understand - This just put the Dems an a very politically advantages position.

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it". Thomas Sowell


Socialist ideas always "need work" because they don't work as advertised. Leftist have to lie about their true intentions else their ideas wouldn't get past.

I know how health insurance works, I've paid it for 31 years as a working adult. And my phone bill, and electric bill and any other responsibilities! We knew that the millions of people who could have had health insurance, but bought other stuff instead, would be subsidized by those who had been paying in already.

The ACA cancelled my policy, the cheapest reissue was 400+% higher with a $6,000 deductible.


"The function of socialism is to raise suffering to a higher level." Norman Mailer

One of the ACA architects admitted that they relied on "the stupidity of the voter". He was talking about (D)'s, we knew Obama was lying.

But let's face it, the mooches in socialism who benefit are delighted with the ideas, the fact that others have to pay for it doesn't really enter their minds.


"Yes, in socialism the rich will be poorer - but the poor will also be poorer. People will lose interest in really working hard and creating jobs." Thomas Peterffy

 

[rturner76]

You lack both an understanding of socialism and seem unable to express yourself without crudity. Your high school writing teachers must be proud.

I'm glad this was pointed out, the part about lacking understanding of socialism bit I mean. Many people see any government program or mandate as socialism. The ACA was more like a new set of regulations than a government takeover of health insurance. This country is still a regulated free market society. We can own private property and private businesses, make profits and spend them as we choose. We can go where we want, work and live where we want and study whatever we want. A true full blast socialist government owns everything and everyone works for the government. Your choices are limited to about your occupation, where you will live, or what you will study, if you can study. So total socialism is much different than regulated health care.

 

[Miss Shelby]

A lot of people with my world view were not happy with Ryans bill in the first place, myself included. But its only been 2 months so i am not rueing the day quite yet for mercy sakes.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it". Thomas Sowell


Socialist ideas always "need work" because they don't work as advertised. Leftist have to lie about their true intentions else their ideas wouldn't get past.

I know how health insurance works, I've paid it for 31 years as a working adult. And my phone bill, and electric bill and any other responsibilities! We knew that the millions of people who could have had health insurance, but bought other stuff instead, would be subsidized by those who had been paying in already.

The ACA cancelled my policy, the cheapest reissue was 400+% higher with a $6,000 deductible.


"The function of socialism is to raise suffering to a higher level." Norman Mailer

One of the ACA architects admitted that they relied on "the stupidity of the voter". He was talking about (D)'s, we knew Obama was lying.

But let's face it, the mooches in socialism who benefit are delighted with the ideas, the fact that others have to pay for it doesn't really enter their minds.


"Yes, in socialism the rich will be poorer - but the poor will also be poorer. People will lose interest in really working hard and creating jobs." Thomas Peterffy

Oooo.... Dualing Quotes my favorite.

“There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there - good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory... Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea - God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.

- Elizabeth Warren

People, real people, sell their skills at a discount to other people who need them. That discount allows companies to make profits. The workers deserve part of the profit in the form of social goods paid for by part of the profits they generated by allowing themselves to work at less then their skills demand.

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerated the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism: ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or any controlling private power.

-FDR

The consolidation of wealth is the cancer of capitalism. The control of democracy of the few who have consolidate the wealth to unspeakable levels is the stage 4 cancer stage of Capitalism. We currently have wealth more highly concentrated than at any time in history. The GDP of the planet is about 44 Trillion dollar. 22+ Trillion of it is in the hands of about 4000 people. How sustainable is this arrangement ?

The Master said, “A true gentleman is one who has set his heart upon the Way. A fellow who is ashamed merely of shabby clothing or modest meals is not even worth conversing with.

- Confucius

I'm not sure exactly what this means, but, hey, it's Confucius.

The essence of capitalism is to turn nature into commodities and commodities into capital. The live green earth is transformed into dead gold bricks, with luxury items for the few and toxic slag heaps for the many. The glittering mansion overlooks a vast sprawl of shanty towns, wherein a desperate, demoralized humanity is kept in line with drugs, television, and armed force.

― Michael Parenti

'Merica !!

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Here watch this:

This was broadcast 5 hours after the AHCA was pulled.

First: they made the commercial before the vote and bought the time without an option to withdraw the commercial.

But that's not the weird part. The weird part is that Barbara Comstock was going to vote AGAINST the AHCA.

This is why they fail.

 

[Colter]

We all understand the necessity of infrastructure, the socialism that we are opposed to is the parasitic nature of state-ism. The improvident habitually live off the thrifty. Sober up and pay your own bills!

 

[Colter]

We all understand the necessity of infrastructure, the socialism that we are opposed to is the parasitic nature of state-ism. The improvident habitually live off the thrifty. Sober up and pay your own bills!

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

We all understand the necessity of infrastructure, the socialism that we are opposed to is the parasitic nature of state-ism. The improvident habitually live off the thrifty. Sober up and pay your own bills!

What I'm against kind of welfare state that allows welfare to corporations and the parasitic nature of capitalism.

 

[Colter]

What I'm against kind of welfare state that allows welfare to corporations and the parasitic nature of capitalism.

Class envy, jealousy of successful people. Half the country pays no Fed income tax! The record $3.8 trillion in tax revenue last year was paid by the rich and companies. Only the left would consider reducing taxes for those burdened with them, "welfare".

BTW, people who have high insurance deductibles and never reach them, effectively don't have health insurance.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

Class envy, jealousy of successful people. Half the country pays no Fed income tax! The record $3.8 trillion in tax revenue last year was paid by the rich and companies. Only the left would consider reducing taxes for those burdened with them, "welfare".

BTW, people who have high insurance deductibles and never reach them, effectively don't have health insurance.

And this has what to do with Corporate Welfare, exactly? Nothing.

Just cut and paste the next paragraph from your "Today's talking points" e-mail from Fox or the Cato or Heritage Foundation or wherever they're coming from.

Btw, are you doing this for free because they pay people to cut and paste their talking points on forums, discussion board, even to call into radio shows.

I hate to see you being ripped off. Go out and get paid.

 

[Colter]

And this has what to do with Corporate Welfare, exactly? Nothing.

Just cut and paste the next paragraph from your "Today's talking points" e-mail from Fox or the Cato or Heritage Foundation or wherever they're coming from.

Btw, are you doing this for free because they pay people to cut and paste their talking points on forums, discussion board, even to call into radio shows.

I hate to see you being ripped off. Go out and get paid.

No, I own my own business and work. There is no such thing as corporate welfare, there are targeted tax cuts to stimulate certain sectors if the economy such as Obamas $50 billion in tax breaks for wind and solar or the $350 billion annually in mortgage interest deduction.

Sorry about the cognitive dissonance but there are facts that you wont find on PMSMSNBC.

 

[Cosmic Charlie]

No, I own my own business and work. There is no such thing as corporate welfare, there are targeted tax cuts to stimulate certain sectors if the economy such as Obamas $50 billion in tax breaks for wind and solar or the $350 billion annually in mortgage interest deduction.

Allow me retort:

Ten Examples of Welfare for the Rich and Corporations | The Huffington Post
-----------------------------

What are some examples of corporate welfare in the United States?

7 Answers

Julie Lary, Facinated by marketing dynamics, which impact customer behavior
Written 17 Jun 2015

• Superfunds whereby the government foots most of the bill for cleaning up hazardous waste sites, due to irresponsible manufacturers, utilities, and businesses
• Using government money to build arenas for sports franchises
• Subsidies and tax breaks to companies to encourage them to move to various cities or conversely, not leave
• Hedge-fund and private-equity managers taking advantage of tax loopholes to pay lower tax rates
• Pro-business policies that keep wages low, don't require paid maternity leave or paid sick time, which results in people needing to go on welfare (because they can't work) or get food stamps to put food on the table. And in a sense, the reduced tax rate on business is corporate welfare because there's a bigger burden on individual tax payers
• As mentioned... coal, oil, and gas subsidies, along with agriculture subsidies

---------------------------
Some Corporate Welfare Examples
-----------------------------
The 8 Biggest Corporate Welfare Recipients in America
--------------------------------
Where Is The Outrage Over Corporate Welfare?
-------------------------------
https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/PA703.pdf
---------------------------------
Robert Reich: Corporate Welfare Is Destroying Our Economy (VIDEO)
--------------------------------
http://www.tennessean.com/story/opinion/contributors/2015/05/21/export-import-bank/27711517/
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm tired now, so I'm going to stop.

Surprisingly not a one of these mentions solar power. They do mention the mortgage deduction, which, surprisingly benefits businesses more than homeowners (I was actually surprised to read that.)

 

[MikeK]

Allow me retort:

Ten Examples of Welfare for the Rich and Corporations | The Huffington Post
-----------------------------

---------------------------
Some Corporate Welfare Examples
-----------------------------
The 8 Biggest Corporate Welfare Recipients in America
--------------------------------
Where Is The Outrage Over Corporate Welfare?
-------------------------------
https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/PA703.pdf
---------------------------------
Robert Reich: Corporate Welfare Is Destroying Our Economy (VIDEO)
--------------------------------
Export-Import bank another example of corporate welfare
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm tired now, so I'm going to stop.

Surprisingly not a one of these mentions solar power. They do mention the mortgage deduction, which, surprisingly benefits businesses more than homeowners (I was actually surprised to read that.)

Do you ever get tired of being the adult in the room? Being on the side of decency and reason, with arguments that amount to more than "you're jealous" and "pmsnbc" and "Adam and Steve"? I kinda do, I admit.

Why do people say that Obamacare is a socialist system instead of simply stating that they have no idea what socialism is? The two statements say the same thing, but one is more humble.

 

[MikeK]

GOP Makes Good On 2009 Promise To Block President’s Healthcare Bill

WASHINGTON—Telling Americans this was the kind of leadership and accountability they could expect from the GOP, congressional Republicans held a press conference Monday to celebrate making good on their 2009 promise to block the president’s healthcare bill. “Eight years ago, our party made a solemn pledge to do everything in our power to ensure that a healthcare bill put forth by the president of the United States did not become law, and through our actions last week, that is exactly what we have done,” said Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy, who declared that Republican leaders had never forgotten the vow they made almost a decade ago and noted that, when presented earlier this month with a comprehensive healthcare reform plan championed by the White House, they quickly stopped it in its tracks and refused to relent until it was dead. “True to our word, we successfully prevented the executive branch from pushing through a sweeping bill that would have completely remade the U.S. healthcare system. When we said in 2009 that we would not let the president enact a plan that would affect tens of millions of Americans, that was not just empty rhetoric, and on Friday, we stood up and put an end to the president’s bill for good. Voters will not forget our resolute action.” McCarthy went on to add that throughout the remainder of this term, the American people could count on their Republican representatives to uphold the vows they made repeatedly between 2008 and 2016 to obstruct the president’s agenda at every turn.