The Seventh Day is the SABBATH of the Lord thy God Exodus 20:10

[BobRyan]

The gospel: John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love." That goes for John 14:15 also. "IF you Love Me keep My Commandments"

Indeed. And this is before the cross - so no part of God's Word could even remotely have been claimed to be "nailed to the cross" in John 14.

What is more -- Hebrews 8:6-10 makes it clear that the TEN commandments at Sinai - are Christ's -- HE spoke them according to Hebrews 8.

Jesus didn't say, "If you keep My Father's commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." No, Jesus said His own commandments.

Jesus was not teaching "Obey ME -- not the Father" -- not ever.

Especially not in John 14.

An entire thread on that point here -- #1

Proof:

a small quote from that thread -


John 14
9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

 

[1stcenturylady]

indeed - i don't know of any of them that say only their one denomination goes to heaven.

Though Catholicism did have that "outside of the church - no salvation" statement where they meant - the Catholic Church

Yet many will admit that only Noah and his family survived the flood.

Yes, just those who keep the Sabbath, right?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Indeed. And this is before the cross - so no part of God's Word could even remotely have been claimed to be "nailed to the cross" in John 14.

What is more -- Hebrews 8:6-10 makes it clear that the TEN commandments at Sinai - are Christ's -- HE spoke them according to Hebrews 8.



Jesus was not teaching "Obey ME -- not the Father" -- not ever.

Especially not in John 14.

An entire thread on that point here -- #1

Proof:

a small quote from that thread -


John 14
9 Jesus *said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

John 12
49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”

Matt 19
17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 Then he *said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 20 The young man *said to Him, “All these things I have kept; what am I still lacking?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

Did it dawn on you WHICH commandments Jesus told the rich young ruler to keep? The last 6.

 

[1stcenturylady]

I don't believe the Ten Commandments are the old covenant - I believe they are the LAW of God and so as Jeremiah states - the LAW of God is written on the heart in the NEW Covenant - just as it was written on stone in the symbol of the Old Covenant.

Exodus 34:28

 

[bugkiller]

I for one -- have never found you to be a good "source" when it comes to "What do Seventh-day Adventists actually teach and believe". But there are a lot of good sources for that sort of information -- that is for sure.

Who cares?
bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

That was the section of my post focused on comparing two covenants.




I am a little confused by that response to my post above - about Galatians 4 being about the contrast of TWO covenants - the old Covenant and the new Covenant. The "no it is about the two covenants" where I am also arguing it is a contrast between two covenants - seems out of place.

Galatians 4:21-28

Two sons,
two women,
two covenants,
Two affiliations (Mount Sinai – vs – New Jerusalem)


In Gal 4:21-28 we have Paul addressing the issue of the motivation/incentive apparently being given gentile Christians - by Jewish Christians - to become a physical member of literal Israel. Paul points out that Christians (whether Jew or gentile ones) have the much greater affiliation with "Jerusalem above" and so the motive to "be joined to Israel at Sinai" is defused.

It is easy to see how Judaizing-Christians might have been making their case with Christian gentiles who just learned that their old pagan god system was no-gods-at-all as Gal 4 points out -- the whole thing "went up in smoke" just then. And by contrast the Jews had 'the REAL God" and the REAL God-ordained Bible at Sinai as well as the real God-ordained worship, as their heritage.

This put Christian gentiles in "second class citizen" position - and hence the drive to get them to become literal Jews via circumcision etc. Paul defeats that effort by pointing the Christians to the fact that there is a much greater heritage and affiliation for both Jew and Gentile Christian in the form of the "Jerusalem above" and eternal life via the Gospel.

Paul is not even remotely making the case that taking God's name in vain, breaking the Bible Sabbath or dishonoring parents is "now ok for Christians". As many here will agree.


in Christ,

Bob

Just simply amazing and beyond belief. You say the issue is defused while you promote becoming Israel or a Jew which is necessary if one becomes obligated to the law which you also promote.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

If you read anything between BobRyan and me, you will know we discussed our both going to the same SDA college. So don't say I'm not being honest. You just called me a liar. I happen to love the SDA church. I no longer agree with the law vs. grace issue is all. But I am still post-trib. and do believe those who are not written in the Book of Life will be destroyed, not suffer forever like Satan and his immortal fallen angels.

Kool!!! There is an SDA fellowship section.

I did not get the idea you were going to be pro law and get on me for exposing false teaching. I am more adamant pro grace than Bob is pro law. If Bob says what he posts here is not pro SDA, I am not addressing SDAism nor exhibiting hate or harm towards them. The law has nothing to do with Christianity.

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

Kool!!! There is an SDA fellowship section.

I did not get the idea you were going to be pro law and get on me for exposing false teaching. I am more adamant pro grace than Bob is pro law. If Bob says what he posts here is not pro SDA, I am not addressing SDAism nor exhibiting hate or harm towards them. The law has nothing to do with Christianity.

bugkiller

I am pro-love and can reason together in love. Bob and I do not agree, but we are doing so amicably.

 

[bugkiller]

I am pro-love and can reason together in love. Bob and I do not agree, but we are doing so amicably.

kool!!!!!

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

We just weren't on the same page as to what Paul was talking about. For some reason you do not see the significance that the covenant given on Mt. Sinai was the Ten Commandments, that it represented Ishmael, and that the New Covenant only has the last 6 commandments written on our hearts, with belief in Christ at the center. The New Covenant does not have the Sabbath commandment in it, because it is now trust in Christ, the SUBSTANCE of the Sabbath and all the other feast days. Leviticus 23 is a list of the holy convocations - the feasts of the Lord, and #1 is the Sabbath.

As a gesture of good will - nice post.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You can't falsely accuse another member calling them dishonest - simply because you failed to read the posts

What? why are you doing this?

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Well that explains a lot. You then were not being honest with us. I am not trying to be hurtful. Sorry you feel that way. No I have never been SDA, thank God!!!!! I have had several encounters with them though. Still have one of their award bibles. Had an SDA neighbor try to convert me for more than 10 years. Thank God I have read and studied the Bible.

bugkiller

You can't falsely accuse another member calling them dishonest - simply because you failed to read the posts

What? why are you doing this?
bugkiller

confused?? how did that happen?

 

[BobRyan]

Exodus 34:28

Is it your claim that something in Exodus 34 says it is ok for gentiles to take God's name in vain or...break the Sabbath?

Notice that it is "ALL mankind" keeping Sabbath in Isaiah 66:23 - for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

Notice that it is "gentiles" blessed for keeping the Sabbath in Isaiah 56:1-8

It is the Sabbath -- "MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27 according to Christ,

And of course - it is wrong for either group - to take God's name in vain.

 

[BobRyan]

Did it dawn on you WHICH commandments Jesus told the rich young ruler to keep? The last 6.

True. He never mentions not bowing down before idols and not taking God's name in vain.

Is it your claim that before the cross - Jesus was deleting some of the Ten Commandments?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Is it your claim that something in Exodus 34 says it is ok for gentiles to take God's name in vain or...break the Sabbath?

Notice that it is "ALL mankind" keeping Sabbath in Isaiah 66:23 - for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

Notice that it is "gentiles" blessed for keeping the Sabbath in Isaiah 56:1-8

It is the Sabbath -- "MADE for mankind" Mark 2:27 according to Christ,

And of course - it is wrong for either group - to take God's name in vain.

I merely answered your post with Ex. 34:28 that the COVENANT was the Ten Commandments. I did not infer anything regarding taking the name of the Lord in vain.

 

[1stcenturylady]

True. He never mentions not bowing down before idols and not taking God's name in vain.

Is it your claim that before the cross - Jesus was deleting some of the Ten Commandments?

No, He was fulfilling them. We do not break the law, we establish it through love.

 

[BobRyan]

The Ten Commandments are the Law of the covenants - both OC and NC. But the covenant itself is the context for that law.

Just as we see in the NEW Covenant. For example that NEW Covenant does not say "This is the NEW Covenant - Love God with all your heart" -- as we all know. the LAW is inside the context of the Covenant - whether it be new or old.

The Ten Commandments are the LAW of the Old Covenant. And the New as Jeremiah's text points out.

 

[1stcenturylady]

The Ten Commandments are the Law of the covenants - both OC and NC. But the covenant itself is the context for that law.

Just as we see in the NEW Covenant. For example that NEW Covenant does not say "This is the NEW Covenant - Love God with all your heart" -- as we all know. the LAW is inside the context of the Covenant - whether it be new or old.

The Ten Commandments are the LAW of the Old Covenant. And the New as Jeremiah's text points out.

How do you see grace? Or would you rather talk about another Adventist doctrine, say unclean meats? I would rather talk about grace, but meat is okay if you would rather.

 

[bugkiller]

In fact I did - I point out that the LAW of the covenant in the case of the Old Covenant is "the same" as the LAW of the New Covenant. The Covenants are "Agreements" - the LAW of the covenant is unchanged but the agreement or context for it is "new" under the NEW covenant. Thus it is "still wrong to take God's name in vain" even under the NEW Covenant - because under the NEW Covenant "SIN is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 -- "still"

This is impossible. Jer 31:32 has been quoted to you enough to you that you should have it memorized. You even quote it yourself. I can not understand how "not according to...." means the same" or "is moved."

The same goes for your partial quote of I JN 3:4. Your teaching is a half truth. Half truths are full lies.

Paul never says that the LAW contained in the NEW Covenant does not have the first 4 commandments.
Paul never says it is not wrong to take God's name in vain "Which is in the first 4 commandments".
Jeremiah 31:31-33 demands that the TEN Commandments be included in the term "LAW" as used by Jeremiah defining the NEW Covenant.

Where?

By contrast Paul says "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrew 4.

The word "Sabbath" does not appear in the Greek text of your quote.

And James says "to break one is to break them all" James 2.

Where does James indicate obligation to the law?

And Christ affirms in the NT - that "still" the "Sabbath is made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27

Jesus would then be teaching directly against the law.

And of course Isaiah 66:23 for all eternity AFTER the cross - in the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to worship"

There is still nothing happening on the Sabbath in that verse.

bugkiller

 

[1stcenturylady]

The Ten Commandments are the Law of the covenants - both OC and NC. But the covenant itself is the context for that law.

Just as we see in the NEW Covenant. For example that NEW Covenant does not say "This is the NEW Covenant - Love God with all your heart" -- as we all know. the LAW is inside the context of the Covenant - whether it be new or old.

The Ten Commandments are the LAW of the Old Covenant. And the New as Jeremiah's text points out.

Bob, (and to you too Bug), I don't want to leave this part of this thread about the law without saying that I do NOT take the Lords name in vain. Not because it was a commandment, but because it would hurt my conscience to treat even His name with disrespect. I love Him so much. In no way do I despise the Ten Commandments, or make light of the fact you revere the 4th commandment above them all. I know why you do. The law is holy, but it couldn't save us. I also don't worship any other God than God, I paint pictures of Jesus but I don't worship my paintings. But knowing the true meaning of the Sabbath, I keep it better than a lot of so called Sabbath keepers. Entering into God's rest is not not working on the 7th day of the week, but having absolute trust in God everyday. Trusting God, being anxious for absolutely nothing, complete faith in Him to not only give me eternal life, but peace and contentment now in the midst of being absolutely alone on this earth, poverty, old age, stiff joints, you name it, because of the sweet fellowship I have with God every moment of every day. My conscience is so highly sensitized I go to bed with a clear conscience from having done nothing willfully displeasing to my God every second throughout the day. A long time ago I learned obedience through suffering, and praise Him for that time of extreme spiritual growth. Now, my mind is ALWAYS on Him. "My sheep hear My voice." And I do literally hear Him. He even tells me what to pray so that I know it is His will, and then He makes it come to pass immediately. My testimony is not just knowing about the Bible stories, about the history, about the laws and prophets, about Jesus, but really KNOWING Him. Most importantly is LOVE. And by their fruit ye shall know them. If we can't love our brothers and sisters in the Lord, how can we love our enemies in the world? So what if one belongs to a denomination whose emphasis is on one thing, and another's denomination is on another aspect of the Bible that they believe is being overlooked. I learn something from them all, and I love it. And when I learn something new about Him, I get so excited, you would think I was a toddler seeing their first fireworks!