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BobRyan

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Unfortunately you do not know much about the SDA organization and its people. I could quote Ellen for you.

Sorry that you seem to think I am against Sabbath keeping.

I for one -- have never found you to be a good "source" when it comes to "What do Seventh-day Adventists actually teach and believe". But there are a lot of good sources for that sort of information -- that is for sure.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Gal 4 is not arguing that the Ten Commandments are abolished -- one could understand the Hebrew 10 statement that animal sacrifices are abolished - but the idea that "do not take God's name in vain" is abolished... or just for Ishmael.. or does not apply to Christians etc.. is not anywhere in Galatians 4. Rather the section in Gal 4:21 compares Ishmael to Isaac. It is the children of Isaac...not Ishmael - that are at Mt. Sinai.

Hagar and Ishmael - vs Sarah and Isaac.
New Jerusalem - vs Old Jerusalem where Jews had recently rejected their own Messiah
Two Covenants - New vs Old... with the Old Covenant at Sinai.

Jeremiah and Hebrews 8 have explicit details on exactly what the Bible says the New Covenant is claiming... and of course those details do not help the view of those who reject the idea of the LAW known to Jeremiah written on heart and mind.

The Old Covenant DOES have the TEN Commandments - just as does the NEW. See Christ affirming them "Still" in Matthew 19:16-21 and Mark 7:6-13.

But under the New Covenant those TEN commandments are written on the heart and mind - and not merely external "on stone".

No, Bob, Paul is comparing TWO Covenants. The Old Covenant and our New Covenant. Ishmael is the Covenant received on Mt. Sinai. I'm sure you've heard the story. And Isaac is the Covenant in Jesus, the Seed.

Exodus 34:28 "So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
 
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bugkiller

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I was raised SDA. I know all about their belief that Sunday is the mark of the beast, the Spirit of Prophecy/EGW, and the Ten Commandments of which they revere the Sabbath above all. But why are you trying to be hurtful. Were you once SDA?
Well that explains a lot. You then were not being honest with us. I am not trying to be hurtful. Sorry you feel that way. No I have never been SDA, thank God!!!!! I have had several encounters with them though. Still have one of their award bibles. Had an SDA neighbor try to convert me for more than 10 years. Thank God I have read and studied the Bible.

bugkiller
 
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BobRyan

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Hagar and Ishmael - vs Sarah and Isaac.
New Jerusalem - vs Old Jerusalem where Jews had recently rejected their own Messiah
Two Covenants - New vs Old... with the Old Covenant at Sinai.

Jeremiah and Hebrews 8 have explicit details on exactly what the Bible says the New Covenant is claiming... and of course those details do not help the view of those who reject the idea of the LAW known to Jeremiah written on heart and mind.

The Old Covenant DOES have the TEN Commandments - just as does the NEW. See Christ affirming them "Still" in Matthew 19:16-21 and Mark 7:6-13.

But under the New Covenant those TEN commandments are written on the heart and mind - and not merely external "on stone".

Thus in the NT sin is "still" defined as "transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
Thus it is "still" a sin to take God's name in vain.
Thus Paul in the NT - "still" appeals to the unit of TEN in Ephesians 6:2 to make his case for the 5th commandment.
Thus it is the NT writers "still" report that Christ affirms the TEN Commandments as in Mark 7:6-13
And thus it is that in Isaiah 66:23 - for all eternity AFTER the cross in the New Earth - "ALL mankind" is to gather for worship on the Sabbath cycle that still exists "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"

That was the section of my post focused on comparing two covenants.


No, Bob, Paul is comparing TWO Covenants. The Old Covenant and our New Covenant.

I am a little confused by that response to my post above - about Galatians 4 being about the contrast of TWO covenants - the old Covenant and the new Covenant. The "no it is about the two covenants" where I am also arguing it is a contrast between two covenants - seems out of place.

Galatians 4:21-28

Two sons,
two women,
two covenants,
Two affiliations (Mount Sinai – vs – New Jerusalem)


In Gal 4:21-28 we have Paul addressing the issue of the motivation/incentive apparently being given gentile Christians - by Jewish Christians - to become a physical member of literal Israel. Paul points out that Christians (whether Jew or gentile ones) have the much greater affiliation with "Jerusalem above" and so the motive to "be joined to Israel at Sinai" is defused.

It is easy to see how Judaizing-Christians might have been making their case with Christian gentiles who just learned that their old pagan god system was no-gods-at-all as Gal 4 points out -- the whole thing "went up in smoke" just then. And by contrast the Jews had 'the REAL God" and the REAL God-ordained Bible at Sinai as well as the real God-ordained worship, as their heritage.

This put Christian gentiles in "second class citizen" position - and hence the drive to get them to become literal Jews via circumcision etc. Paul defeats that effort by pointing the Christians to the fact that there is a much greater heritage and affiliation for both Jew and Gentile Christian in the form of the "Jerusalem above" and eternal life via the Gospel.

Paul is not even remotely making the case that taking God's name in vain, breaking the Bible Sabbath or dishonoring parents is "now ok for Christians". As many here will agree.


in Christ,

Bob
 
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1stcenturylady

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Well that explains a lot. You then were not being honest with us. I am not trying to be hurtful. Sorry you feel that way. No I have never been SDA, thank God!!!!! I have had several encounters with them though. Still have one of their award bibles. Had an SDA neighbor try to convert me for more than 10 years. Thank God I have read and studied the Bible.

bugkiller

If you read anything between BobRyan and me, you will know we discussed our both going to the same SDA college. So don't say I'm not being honest. You just called me a liar. I happen to love the SDA church. I no longer agree with the law vs. grace issue is all. But I am still post-trib. and do believe those who are not written in the Book of Life will be destroyed, not suffer forever like Satan and his immortal fallen angels.
 
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1stcenturylady

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That was the section of my post focused on comparing two covenants.




I am a little confused by that response to my post above - about Galatians 4 being about the contrast of TWO covenants - the old Covenant and the new Covenant. The "no it is about the two covenants" where I am also arguing it is a contrast between two covenants - seems out of place.


in Christ,

Bob

We just weren't on the same page as to what Paul was talking about. For some reason you do not see the significance that the covenant given on Mt. Sinai was the Ten Commandments, that it represented Ishmael, and that the New Covenant only has the last 6 commandments written on our hearts, with belief in Christ at the center. The New Covenant does not have the Sabbath commandment in it, because it is now trust in Christ, the SUBSTANCE of the Sabbath and all the other feast days. Leviticus 23 is a list of the holy convocations - the feasts of the Lord, and #1 is the Sabbath.
 
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BobRyan

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Well that explains a lot. You then were not being honest with us. I am not trying to be hurtful. Sorry you feel that way. No I have never been SDA, thank God!!!!! I have had several encounters with them though. Still have one of their award bibles. Had an SDA neighbor try to convert me for more than 10 years. Thank God I have read and studied the Bible.

bugkiller

You can't falsely accuse another member calling them dishonest - simply because you failed to read the posts
 
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BobRyan

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We just weren't on the same page as to what Paul was talking about. For some reason you do not see the significance that the covenant given on Mt. Sinai was the Ten Commandments

In fact I did - I point out that the LAW of the covenant in the case of the Old Covenant is "the same" as the LAW of the New Covenant. The Covenants are "Agreements" - the LAW of the covenant is unchanged but the agreement or context for it is "new" under the NEW covenant. Thus it is "still wrong to take God's name in vain" even under the NEW Covenant - because under the NEW Covenant "SIN is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 -- "still"

that it represented Ishmael, and that the New Covenant only has the last 6 commandments written on our hearts

Paul never says that the LAW contained in the NEW Covenant does not have the first 4 commandments.
Paul never says it is not wrong to take God's name in vain "Which is in the first 4 commandments".
Jeremiah 31:31-33 demands that the TEN Commandments be included in the term "LAW" as used by Jeremiah defining the NEW Covenant.

The New Covenant does not have the Sabbath commandment in it

By contrast Paul says "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrew 4.
And James says "to break one is to break them all" James 2.
And Christ affirms in the NT - that "still" the "Sabbath is made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
And of course Isaiah 66:23 for all eternity AFTER the cross - in the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to worship"


Leviticus 23 is a list of the holy convocations - the feasts of the Lord, and #1 is the Sabbath.

As we just saw -
1. Lev 23:2 does not say the weekly Sabbath is a feast and
2. even within the annual holy days - the Day of Atonement is specifically not a feast. The NASB is even more clear in pointing out that detail.
3. Nor were all Jews even wealthy enough to "feast every seven days"
4. nor does Lev 23 demand that they leave their country and be in Jerusalem for "A feast of the Jews every 7 days".
5. Nor did they need a priest "in all their dwellings' to observe the Sabbath "in all their dwellings"
 
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1stcenturylady

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In fact I did - I point out that the LAW of the covenant in the case of the Old Covenant is "the same" as the LAW of the New Covenant. The Covenants are "Agreements" - the LAW of the covenant is unchanged but the agreement or context for it is "new" under the NEW covenant. Thus it is "still wrong to take God's name in vain" even under the NEW Covenant - because under the NEW Covenant "SIN is transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 -- "still"



Paul never says that the LAW contained in the NEW Covenant does not have the first 4 commandments.
Paul never says it is not wrong to take God's name in vain "Which is in the first 4 commandments".
Jeremiah 31:31-33 demands that the TEN Commandments be included in the term "LAW" as used by Jeremiah defining the NEW Covenant.



By contrast Paul says "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Hebrew 4.
And James says "to break one is to break them all" James 2.
And Christ affirms in the NT - that "still" the "Sabbath is made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
And of course Isaiah 66:23 for all eternity AFTER the cross - in the New Earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to worship"




As we just saw -
1. Lev 23:2 does not say the weekly Sabbath is a feast and
2. even within the annual holy days - the Day of Atonement is specifically not a feast. The NASB is even more clear in pointing out that detail.
3. Nor were all Jews even wealthy enough to "feast every seven days"
4. nor does Lev 23 demand that they leave their country and be in Jerusalem for "A feast of the Jews every 7 days".
5. Nor did they need a priest "in all their dwellings' to observe the Sabbath "in all their dwellings"

Yes, there remains a Sabbath Rest - His name is Jesus.

Read Hebrews 4 again. It is talking about His rest - a spiritual rest, not a physical one. He is talking about trusting God which they never did. It is EVERYDAY, not one day in seven.

The eternal law of God remains. To love God with all your heart, soul and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself."

But it is no longer your own strength, but through the strength of God.
 
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BobRyan

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Yes, there remains a Sabbath Rest - His name is Jesus.

I think those that believe that - would love to have a text that said "don't keep the Bible Sabbath - Jesus is now your Bible Sabbath" -- or something like that.

Read Hebrews 4 again. It is talking about His rest

Hebrews 4 says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" -- "remains from what"?? In the actual text it says that it remains - from the time of David writing the Psalms. In the text it says that some entered it and some did not.

No one is arguing for obedience "apart from the gospel" either in OT or NT. Thus "the Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8.


. He is talking about trusting God which they never did.

On the contrary - same book - chapter 11 - lists many who before the cross were saved by grace through faith. Including those translated directly to heaven in the OT without dying.

So then portions of the Sabbath commandment quoted many times in the NT - but portions of "do not take God's name in vain" not at all in the NT. (Two of the 4 commandments you said are now deleted).

What is more John quotes from the Sabbath Commandment in Rev 14 where he then adds "The saints KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

The eternal law of God remains. To love God with all your heart, soul and strength

Indeed Deut 6:5

and to love your neighbor as yourself."
Yes Lev 19:18

They did not delete the command to not take God's name in vain in the OT - nor do they do so today.

And of course in Mark 7:6-13 Christ condemns any attempt at all to downsize even one of the Ten Commandments.

But it is no longer your own strength, but through the strength of God.

That is the difference between Old Covenant and New Covenant - same LAW but under the NEW Covenant it is the born again person doing it - via the power of the Holy Spirit same as they did in the OT.

No one is saved who is under the O.C. and no one is lost who is under the N.C.
 
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1stcenturylady

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I think those that believe that - would love to have a text that said "don't keep the Bible Sabbath - Jesus is now your Bible Sabbath" -- or something like that.



Hebrews 4 says "there REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" -- "remains from what"?? In the actual text it says that it remains - from the time of David writing the Psalms. In the text it says that some entered it and some did not.

No one is arguing for obedience "apart from the gospel" either in OT or NT. Thus "the Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8.




On the contrary - same book - chapter 11 - lists many who before the cross were saved by grace through faith. Including those translated directly to heaven in the OT without dying.

So then portions of the Sabbath commandment quoted many times in the NT - but portions of "do not take God's name in vain" not at all in the NT. (Two of the 4 commandments you said are now deleted).

What is more John quotes from the Sabbath Commandment in Rev 14 where he then adds "The saints KEEP the commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"



Indeed Deut 6:5

Yes Lev 19:18

They did not delete the command to not take God's name in vain in the OT - nor do they do so today.

And of course in Mark 7:6-13 Christ condemns any attempt at all to downsize even one of the Ten Commandments.



That is the difference between Old Covenant and New Covenant - same LAW but under the NEW Covenant it is the born again person doing it - via the power of the Holy Spirit same as they did in the OT.

No one is saved who is under the O.C. and no one is lost who is under the N.C.

One question just popped out when reading your response which made me look up Rev. 14. You said: What is more John quotes from the Sabbath Commandment in Rev 14. No he doesn't. What translation are you using, or what verse do you see John "quoting" the 4th Commandment? I just don't see it.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Now why is it that you are focusing on taking God's name in vain when it is not mentioned at all in the NT which you admit? Is that a pet argument you have that Paul never said NOT to keep it? Is that it - that omission? Why would he? Paul's whole focus is on preaching Jesus and loving our neighbor as our self.

There is one group that bases their whole denominational difference on omissions. They will not allow musical instruments in their churches because they weren't mentioned in the New Testament. What truth is there in that? Where is the grace? It is just legalism. They don't even believe anyone is saved in a denomination which isn't named after Jesus in some way; it must have Christ's name in the title! So, sorry, Seventh-day Adventist doesn't cut the mustard. Nor does Baptist, Methodist, etc. Only CHURCH OF CHRIST.

Are Adventists different than they are? Where in the Bible does it say that the mark of the Beast is worshiping God on Sunday? Thus everyone but 7th day whatever church groups are damned. Don't you all realize you are going to have a rude awakening in heaven when you see the masses that love Jesus whom you didn't believe had a chance.
 
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BobRyan

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One question just popped out when reading your response which made me look up Rev. 14. You said: What is more John quotes from the Sabbath Commandment in Rev 14. No he doesn't. What translation are you using, or what verse do you see John "quoting" the 4th Commandment? I just don't see it.

There is unique language in the TEN commandments - that is quoted in other parts of the Bible and easy to see.

For example the 5th commandment says
"12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you."

It is quoted in Ephesians 6:2 - but not in its entirety.
"2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), --
As we already saw - the "FIRST" commandment with a promise is a specific reference to the "UNIT of LAW" - the TEN commandments - which is the only context in which the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment WITH a promise".

But another point is that the quote of it in Eph 6:2 is only quoting part of that commandment - and "yet" it is a quote of it.


So also in Exodus 20 we have - this unique language as part of the Bible Sabbath Commandment
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

Rev 14
7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

Acts 14:15
15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We are also men of the same nature as you, and preach the gospel to you that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them.

Acts 4:24
24 And when they heard this, they lifted their voices to God with one accord and said, “O Lord, it is You who made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that is in them,


And this even includes the Sabbath as found in Genesis 2:1-3
Heb 4
4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

=============================================

As we all know by now - there is nothing like that sort of quote at all for the command to 'Not take God's name in vain' - to be found in all of the NT - and yet we obviously know that rebellion against that commandment is "sin".

notice what Christ said about this idea of trying to edit/sidestep/downsize one of God's Ten Commandments.

Mark 7:6-13
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”
 
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BobRyan

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Now why is it that you are focusing on taking God's name in vain when it is not mentioned at all in the NT which you admit?

Because only the most extreme anti-Commandment position in all of Christianity would think to argue for such a sin. My point is that it is not mentioned at all in the NT - and "yet" is STILL well-known to be sin to violate that commandment.

Is that a pet argument you have that Paul never said NOT to keep it?

No - it is in response to a pet argument that others make who try to find some sort of excuse not to keep one of the Ten Commandments.

Paul's whole focus is on preaching Jesus and loving our neighbor as our self.

And Jesus said pre-cross "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15 - thus John argues in 1 John 5:2-3 that we SHOW Love for God by honoring his word - keeping his Commandments.

1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
 
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1stcenturylady

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There is unique language in the TEN commandments - that is quoted in other parts of the Bible and easy to see.

For example the 5th commandment says
"12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you."

It is quoted in Ephesians 6:2 - but not in its entirety.
"2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), --
As we already saw - the "FIRST" commandment with a promise is a specific reference to the "UNIT of LAW" - the TEN commandments - which is the only context in which the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment WITH a promise".

But another point is that the quote of it in Eph 6:2 is only quoting part of that commandment - and "yet" it is a quote of it.


So also in Exodus 20 we have - this unique language as part of the Bible Sabbath Commandment
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

Rev 14
7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

Acts 14:15
15 and saying, “Men, why are you doing these things? We are also men of the same nature as you, and preach the gospel to you that you should turn from these vain things to a living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them.

Acts 4:24
24 And when they heard this, they lifted their voices to God with one accord and said, “O Lord, it is You who made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all that is in them,


And this even includes the Sabbath as found in Genesis 2:1-3
Heb 4
4 For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

=============================================

As we all know by now - there is nothing like that sort of quote at all for the command to 'Not take God's name in vain' - to be found in all of the NT - and yet we obviously know that rebellion against that commandment is "sin".

notice what Christ said about this idea of trying to edit/sidestep/downsize one of God's Ten Commandments.

Mark 7:6-13
6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
7 ‘But in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.
8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who speaks evil of father or mother, is to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),’ 12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Thanks, Bob. Yes, Jesus is the Creator as repeated in John's gospel.
 
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Are Adventists different than they are? Where in the Bible does it say that the mark of the Beast is worshiping God on Sunday? Thus everyone but 7th day whatever church groups are damned. Don't you all realize you are going to have a rude awakening in heaven when you see the masses that love Jesus whom you didn't believe had a chance.

As you may recall from your former Seventh-day Adventist days... SDAs do not teach that only SDAs go to heaven.

But we do teach that only Noah and his family went into the ark.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Because only the most extreme anti-Commandment position in all of Christianity would think to argue for such a sin. My point is that it is not mentioned at all in the NT - and "yet" is STILL well-known to be sin to violate that commandment.



No - it is in response to a pet argument that others make who try to find some sort of excuse not to keep one of the Ten Commandments.



And Jesus said pre-cross "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15 - thus John argues in 1 John 5:2-3 that we SHOW Love for God by honoring his word - keeping his Commandments.

1 John 5:2-3
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Yes, you are quoting John who wrote the gospel, the epistle and even Revelation 14:12. So what did John mean by commandments? You obviously believe the Old Covenant, the Ten Commandments.

The gospel: John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love." That goes for John 14:15 also. "IF you Love Me keep My Commandments"

Jesus didn't say, "If you keep My Father's commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love." No, Jesus said His own commandments. They are also based on the eternal law of God, but love was included this time. To love God with all your heart, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. His Father's Ten Commandments said nothing about believing in His Son, or even LOVING God. They couldn't. Does God want robots? Of course not, and I'm sure you agree. They were just to give instruction on what not to do because of their inherent sin nature. But they were never enough to save anyone.

John's Epistle: 1 John 3:
16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And THIS is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave use commandment.

Now you know what Revelation 14:12 is actually saying. John wrote that too. They are both there - belief in Jesus and the last 6 commandments. Accept, those last six are not thou shalt not, but love, and you'll never WANT to commit sins against your neighbor. It is a complete elevation to the original true eternal laws of God - to LOVE.

"Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh"..."But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

So do you still say we are under law? Yes, I do too, IF you do not have the Holy Spirit living in you. This is where grace comes into play. So, now that we've talked about the law, and you and I know where each other stands, let's go on to grace. What does grace mean to you?
 
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1stcenturylady

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As you may recall from your former Seventh-day Adventist days... SDAs do not teach that only SDAs go to heaven.

But we do teach that only Noah and his family went into the ark.

I love it!

Yes, so do 7th Day Baptists, and those other ones on your list. Right? LOL
 
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BobRyan

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I love it!

Yes, so do 7th Day Baptists, and those other ones on your list. Right? LOL

indeed - i don't know of any of them that say only their one denomination goes to heaven.

Though Catholicism did have that "outside of the church - no salvation" statement where they meant - the Catholic Church

Yet many will admit that only Noah and his family survived the flood.
 
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BobRyan

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Yes, you are quoting John who wrote the gospel, the epistle and even Revelation 14:12. So what did John mean by commandments? You obviously believe the Old Covenant, the Ten Commandments.

I don't believe the Ten Commandments are the old covenant - I believe they are the LAW of God and so as Jeremiah states - the LAW of God is written on the heart in the NEW Covenant - just as it was written on stone in the symbol of the Old Covenant.
 
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