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Madagascar and Australia, a question for creationists.

TagliatelliMonster

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And as I said before, what one seeks is what one will find.

Which is exactly why people shouldn't try and provide the answers before asking the questions.

Which is exactly what theists tend to do.
They have beliefs long before they ask any question.

There's a reason why everytime a scientist answers a question with "we don't know (yet)", there will be a theist answering the same question with a variation of "god did it".
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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The unbeliever can't understand the first

Such arrogance...

The idea that someone needs to first blindly believe a text in order to understand said text, is absolutely ridiculous.

and doesn't have access to the second.

So, you need to first believe X exists, before you can access X?

Imagine if science would say such a thing...
"Ow germs are real, but you can only see them under a microscope if you already believe they exist... the unbeliever can not see them"

You'ld instantly lol and call it assanine, and rightly so.
 
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Larniavc

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Ask your pastors this question, Why do animals and plants living on these island not exist anywhere else on earth?
Could it be because they were isolated from the rest of the world and evolved?
The thing to remember is that there is NO observation that cannot be explained with Goddidit.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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Well, as I say, we have a different world view and different understanding of 'who' the author of the Scriptures is.

Let's ask a very direct in-your-face question here, just to make it extra clear...

Do you believe that the bible texts where originally:
- written down by humans, claiming it to be the word of god?
- written/created and subsequently send down by god?


It's ok, and I certainly have no delusions that my efforts here will change the set heart, but it is something that you need to understand about born again believers. They don't use the same source of truth as you do

You certainly can say that again....
We use evidence to differentiate truth from fiction...
Not ancient stories, like you seem to be doing.

and they do have access to the Holy Spirit for discernment of truth

Or so they say. Just like followers of mutually exclusive other religions claim to have access to their supernatural entities. And they are just as convinced of it as you are...


Unless you are, you won't understand or agree.

You frequently come back to this "logic".
The idea that one must FIRST believe before one can "know".

Do you realise that that smells curiously a lot like self-deception?
 
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Herman Hedning

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I've read the book of Daniel and it's a first person narrative and comes across to me as written by the man himself. Perhaps, if you haven't read it, you might take 30 minutes and read it. See what you think from the narrative itself, rather than from what others have told you.

I have read The Catcher in the Rye, and it is also a first person narrative that comes across as written by Holden Caulfield himself. Only that it isn't ... Just sayin'.
 
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Allandavid

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I have read The Catcher in the Rye, and it is also a first person narrative that comes across as written by Holden Caulfield himself. Only that it isn't ... Just sayin'.

Another American classic, To Kill a Mockingbird, is also written in first person through the voice of young Scout. Does this make it a true story?
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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That's right. You see, photosynthesis they can replicate and show step by step how it happens.

That is completely and utterly incorrect.
If it were true, our energy problems would be over.
Our solar energy technology would be thousands of times more efficient.

We understand the big picture. We can not replicate and show "step by step" how plants accomplish this.

It happens every day so there's no need to 'guess' whether or no it does or doesn't happen in the way that science tells us that it does.

That makes no sense and further exemplifies serious misunderstanding in how science works. Observing a phenomena taking place does not, in any way, tell you how said phenomena is taking place. It doesn't even really tell you if there are actual causal relationships either. Correlation doesn't imply causation.

A good example is plate tectonics.
The phenomena was observed and basically a fact: "continents" moved around.
But that fact/observation doesn't tell you how that works. For years, the proposed model of explanation was "continental drift". This turned out to be wrong and was eventually replaced by the model of plate tectonics.

The observations and facts didn't change. The explanation changed.

So the theory of photosyntesis, might also turn out to be wrong or incomplete. It's quite unlikely, but it surely can be. Let's assume that tomorrow it is disproved. Just like with continental drift, disproving that theoretical model will not change the facts.

Clearly, plants require sunlight. Clearly, plants do "something" with those high energy photons.

Evolution, on the other hand, has never been replicated and does not happen everyday

False on both accounts.
Evolution processes are used every day in every farm and breeding program all over the planet.

Natural evolution also occurs not just every day, but every second of every day.
Everytime an organism beats the odds and survives an infection or reproduces or is otherwise succesfull in surviving and spreading its genes... natural selection occured.
Every newborn comes with a set of mutations that it will eventually pass on to off spring (if it survives and breeds).

So yes, natural selection followed by reproduction with modification happens every second of every day.

and is based on a lot of best guesses of what the evidence that we do have on hand 'could' mean.

Every single theoretical model of explanation in science is based on the available evidence at our disposal within the scope of said model.

These are not "guesses". These are conclusions based on data, which are testable with further data.

God's word says that He made each creature and that they would reproduce after their own kind.


Actually, humans said that and claimed they were god's words. You believe those humans.
The evidence however, blows that claim out of the water.

See, that's another thing about science that you don't seem to comprehend...
Science isn't in the business of "proving" things, true.
However, it IS in the business of "disproving" things.

Science can't tell you with certainty what model is True (capital 'T'). However, it CAN tell you what is WRONG.

And the idea that all species were created as-is, is most definatly wrong.
Even only for the simple reason that we've actually observed speciation taking place. And we understand that process very well.

As I think I was clear to say, I trust science in a lot of things

Except when it says things that don't agree with your faith-based beliefs.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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The real difference is that none of them have Jesus

Muslims have Jesus, actually....

But anyway, that is also a two-way street.

A muslim would tell you that "you don't have the quran" or "the prophet muhammed".
A hindu would tell you that "you don't have shiva".
A scientologist will tell you that "you aren't in touch with your inner thetan"

The details of your particular religion, aren't special you know...
Every religion has details unique to them - that's kind of what makes them a seperate religion. Derp.


According to the Scriptures, over 500 people saw him alive after his death

According to the Quran, Muhammed flew to heaven on a winged horse.


There are even extrabiblical references to this issue

That is simply not true.


Do you have any other religious books claiming to see Muhammed after he died?

The specifics of your religion are only relevant within the scope of your religion.
Did Jesus fly to heaven on a winged horse? Muhammed did! So there....


There are actually quite a few solid differences that set the facts presented in the Scriptures apart from a lot of the other 'religious' writings. Prophecy, for me, is the biggest one.


Miracles of Quran
 
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Allandavid

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Hi allandavid,

Yes, they will and no they can't. The real difference is that none of them have Jesus.

And none of the others have Krishna...or Mohammed...or Nephi....so what?

Jesus lived, was crucified and lived again.

Mohammed rode to heaven on his horse for a beer with Allah.....so what?

According to the Scriptures, over 500 people saw him alive after his death. None of your other books offer such a claim.

Hint: "Claim"...!

There are even extrabiblical references to this issue.

Other people report that other people claim to have heard a story....so what?

Do you have any other religious books claiming to see Muhammed after he died?

No, their claim is that he rode to heaven...!

Any mormon tell you that he's seen Mr. Smith after he died?

No, their claim is that Jesus visited the USA...!

There are actually quite a few solid differences that set the facts presented in the Scriptures apart from a lot of the other 'religious' writings. Prophecy, for me, is the biggest one.

They ALL have one thing in common...
 
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AV1611VET

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do you also believe in all the other Gods?
It's sad that agnostics will argue down a forgive-thine-enemy God by comparing Him to Shakti, the god of destruction.

Shoko Asahara would be proud of you.
 
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AV1611VET

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A muslim would tell you that "you don't have the quran" or "the prophet muhammed".
A hindu would tell you that "you don't have shiva".
A scientologist will tell you that "you aren't in touch with your inner thetan"
An atheist will tell you you don't have your father's DNA.
 
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AV1611VET

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The idea that someone needs to first blindly believe a text in order to understand said text, is absolutely ridiculous.
It keeps you from flunking out of history.
 
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AV1611VET

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Let's ask a very direct in-your-face question here, just to make it extra clear...

Do you believe that the bible texts where originally:
- written down by humans, claiming it to be the word of god?
- written/created and subsequently send down by god?
The latter.
 
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The Stamp

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It's sad that agnostics will argue down a forgive-thine-enemy God by comparing Him to Shakti, the god of destruction.
In the O/T the forgive-thine-enemy God had more people killed than he ever forgave and the Mafia boss analogy fits the God of the O/T perfectly.
 
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