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Madagascar and Australia, a question for creationists.

TagliatelliMonster

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An atheist will tell you you don't have your father's DNA.

As an atheist, I wouldn't tell you that, because everyone has access to DNA, regardless of their beliefs.

Like when you fall to earth, you will accelerate by a gravitational pull of 9.81 meters per second per second, regardless of you being a muslim, hindu, jew, christian, viking, scientologist, wiccan, budhist, jehova witness, mormon, .......

That's kind of the neat thing about science - it applies everywhere, no matter the underlying religious beliefs or culture or what-have-you.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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we can say the same for "evolution did it".

Nope.

You see, when you make such an "x-did-it" claim in a scientific context, the immediate response will be three-fold:
1. how did x do it?
2. how do you know / how did you find out?
3. how can I test and/or falsify your claim?

Failure to answer those three questions will result in your claim not being accepted.
See, in science, we don't just take whatever claim someone makes at face value.

In science, you are actually required to justify / demonstrate the causal chain of events. It's not enough to just assert it.
 
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Larniavc

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we can say the same for "evolution did it".
Not so. If we found a winged dog we could not claim 'evolution did it' (for obvious reasons).

But a winged dog would fit in the 'Goddidit' proposition.
 
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xianghua

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Except for all the evidence, of course...
there is no scientific evidence for evolution. so yes- its just "evolution did it". for example: we dont know how many mutations (or what is the chance) need to evolve a flagellum from non flagellum. but "evolution did it" somehow.
 
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Larniavc

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so how we can falsified evolution? (lets say in the fossils area).
Finding a winged dog. Or a modern rabbit in Cambrian strata.

That would just about do it.
 
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Larniavc

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not true. in this case we will claim for "convergent evolution". again: "evolution did it". so simple.
Yes true.

A four legged dog with wings would not exist according to ToE.

There are no hexapodal mammals.
 
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xianghua

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Finding a winged dog. Or a modern rabbit in Cambrian strata.

That would just about do it.

again no- in this case there is several other possibilities:

1) convergent evolution (rabbit evolved twice)
2)the fossil somehow get to the wrong layer
3) its a hox

see how "evolution did it" explain everything?
 
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The Stamp

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Why do I believe that the Scriptures are of God and not men? Because of what they tell me and because of 'how' they came to be.
They came to be because men wrote them, what you wish to believe after that is entirely up to you.
 
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miamited

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Which is exactly what you do in every other part of your life.

Well, not exactly. I agree that if I want to be the best at a job that I do or some project that I'm working on, one likes to think that their work is based on hard facts. Spiritual things are a bit of a different matter. All religions are based on a certain amount of faith. Muslims have never seen Allah. Hindus have never seen any of their gods. The Greeks and Romans and Egyptians never actually saw any of their gods. This unseen world of gods has always been based on a certain amount of sheer faith.

Our God and Creator knows that believing in Him does require a man to step out in mere faith that He is. However, as previously mentioned, for me, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has provided credible evidentiary proof that He is. That He does love me. The Scriptures tell me that God has shown His great love for us in the life and death of His Son. I believe that. I believe that over 500 people saw this dead man walking and that then requires some explanation. Daniel wrote a prophecy for which he couldn't possibly have known the circumstances surrounding the beginning of the prophecy or the length of time that would bring us to the end of it. That requires some explanation.

And we all know what faith is don't we?
Faith is what people use when they don't have evidence for something, if they had evidence they would not need faith.

That is exactly right. Faith is the assurance of things not seen. God hasn't pulled any punches in telling us what it will mean for any of us to believe in Him. We will be persecuted and mocked. We will be few in number. We must believe on faith that He is.

Yes, the Scriptures paint throughout the new covenant that this faith will never be some worldwide popular phenomenon. It speaks of those who believe in Him not following the ways of the world. There is absolutely a separateness, if you will, that is clear between the many and the few. But, anyone can have it and I believe God's word that anyone who would diligently seek for it, will find it. That in seeking for it the assurance of its validity and truth will become clear.

Jesus, this man who was seen walking talking and eating after his death, told a parable of a farmer sowing seed. He explained later to his disciples that the seed was the gospel. The truth of God and who He is. He explained further to them that as the seed was sown that some would just dismiss it out of hand. Some would accept it, but later fall away because of the troubles and persecution that such faith entails. Some would accept it, but later fall away because of the troubles and worry of their life and not continuing to seek after righteousness and their faith would become choked in their heart. But, some would receive it, apply its principles and teaching and continue living in the way of God's righteousness and those few would find God's salvation. Friend, every single person living upon the earth today falls into one of those four categories.

For me, God has given satisfactory proof through the writings of the Scriptures that He is; that He knows the beginning from the end; that He did send one to die for sin who also rose from death as a testimony to us that He can do what He has promised to do. Because I have believed in these small 'proofs', then I also have believed in the rest of it. With all my heart I know that God is. I am as sure that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob exists as I am that I exist. Yes, it is ultimately by faith that I believe all that the Scriptures tell me, but that totality of faith began, for me, in the 'proofs' of the smaller evidences.

As I have said before, I didn't always believe as I do. As a matter of fact, I didn't come to be born again until I was 40 years old. Oh, I had, at times in my life before then gone to worship services and was raised as a child among the fellowship of the believers. But I wasn't any kind of faithful servant. I too, believed in evolution and great ages of the universe. While I'd been raised on many of the children's tales of the Scriptures, I wasn't particularly really believing in all that the Scriptures said. I hadn't even read them until I got to this age of 40 years. So, I know where you're coming from and the things that you speak of. While I have never considered myself an atheist, before the age of 40 I might as well have been. Now understanding as I do, I know that my earlier life would have led me to the same fate as any atheist. There isn't any 'middle'.

Every person today has the opportunity to seek the knowledge and wisdom that the Scriptures hold, but it's a purely a choice and I allow you the right to make that choice for yourself. But, I wouldn't be faithful to my God in not at least warning you of the truth. You're free to dismiss it as many, many do. You're free to continue with a life that believes that all there is, is what we can physically prove to ourselves.

Many, since the new covenant, who call themselves followers of our Lord have done many terrible and wicked things for what they claimed to be in His name and for His purpose. It's sad, but the Scriptures tell us that because of such things God's truth is blasphemed. Some 6,000 years ago God created all that is. He then set in motion a great plan to make Himself known. In accomplishing that, He called a man by thn name of Abram and through him raised up a nation of people to be His people and to do His bidding upon the earth. Even those people are shown throughout the Scriptures to have been a wicked and faithless lot for the most part. But God's great plan did prevail and through His people He did cause the Scriptures to be written and the Messiah to come and pay the price for their sin and ours. He now waits patiently for the full number of those who will believe to come in. But there will come a day when the pent up wrath of God - a wrath that has been burning for these many, many years since the creation - will be released. His patience against the godlessness of mankind will not be held back forever.

You see, friend, the purpose of God's creating can be found in the first few verses of the Scriptures and the last few verses. In the beginning God created. In the end God will take those who have believed and He will be their God and they will be His people. All that has happened between those two points in time is merely the working out of that plan.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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so how we can falsified evolution? (lets say in the fossils area).

Find a mammalian fossil in pre-cambrian layers. Or a kangaroo fossil in America.

Or find anything that violates the predicted nested hierarchies. And I do mean anything. Genetic markers in the wrong place (like a tiger that shares more ERV's with humans then chimps do). A bone in a place where it shouldn't be (like a reptile with inner ear bones instead of a reinforced jaw). Traits where they don't belong (like a mammal with feathers or an amphibian with hair).

Evolution is extremely falsifiable. Due to the enormous amount of predictions it makes, especially in terms of nested hierarchies in both genetics as well as anatomy and things like geographical distribution), it is literally potentially falsifiable in uncountable possible ways.

If it is wrong.... it should be extremely trivial to show it wrong.
 
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Larniavc

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so you are claiming that wings cant evolve twice?
No.

That is not what I am saying.

I'm saying that a hexpodal dog with wings would falsify ToE.
 
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miamited

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They came to be because men wrote them, what you wish to believe after that is entirely up to you.

Hi stamp,

You're right! They came to be because men wrote them. My understanding is not that men didn't write the Scriptures, but that what they wrote - the words they actually set to ink - didn't come from their own thoughts and ideas, but they wrote as the Holy Spirit of God led them to write the things that they wrote.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted
 
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TagliatelliMonster

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there is no scientific evidence for evolution

upload_2017-3-10_14-21-39.png


for example: we dont know how many mutations (or what is the chance) need to evolve a flagellum from non flagellum.

 
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Larniavc

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again no- in this case there is several other possibilities:

1) convergent evolution (rabbit evolved twice)
2)the fossil somehow get to the wrong layer
3) its a hox

see how "evolution did it" explain everything?
1) that's not convergent evolution.
2+3) assuming those were ruled out it would falsify ToE
 
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