Killing off of Native Americans under Nuremberg trials standards?

[GoldenKingGaze]

If we look at USA history and the change in laws after WW2 and the action of the Nuremberg trials, and judge the US government and cavalry of the 18th and 19th centuries by the post WW2 Nuremberg trial standards, would they come up as guilty of war crimes?

I am inspired to write because a 1930s Australian action to kill a number of aboriginal men in the Northern Territory for hunting a bull was then accepted but later condemned under the standards post WW2. Australia has an element of fair play towards aboriginals.

My great grand father probably left tribal life for work and marriage about 1905.

Native Americans were not converted to Christianity enough or to civil work enough and were killed by disease, sometimes deliberately, by deliberate extermination of Bison to starve the people, sometimes by wars, by rifle, and after all the men were killed sometimes all their women and children were killed or enslaved.

 

[timewerx]

Hypocrisy obviously..

Prior to WW2, the growing threat of Russian aggression is becoming obvious and Hitler actually invited GB to become an ally to defeat Russia.

But instead, GB chose the much more evil Stalin to become ally to defeat Hitler.

Later, Russia becomes big enemy in the Cold War.

It should have been a lot easier if Russia was defeated first and the Stalin regime uprooted and then defeat Hitler later. A lot more lives would have been saved. Hitler is barely the butcher that Stalin was!

In such scenario, the Russia that becomes liberated from the Stalinist regime could then be called to defeat Hitler. But in such alternate scenario, there'd be no Stalin, lots of people saved, no communism, and no Cold war!

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Hypocrisy obviously..

Prior to WW2, the growing threat of Russian aggression is becoming obvious and Hitler actually invited GB to become an ally to defeat Russia.

But instead, GB chose the much more evil Stalin to become ally to defeat Hitler.

Later, Russia becomes big enemy in the Cold War.

It should have been a lot easier if Russia was defeated first and the Stalin regime uprooted and then defeat Hitler later. A lot more lives would have been saved. Hitler is barely the butcher that Stalin was!

In such scenario, the Russia that becomes liberated from the Stalinist regime could then be called to defeat Hitler. But in such alternate scenario, there'd be no Stalin, lots of people saved, no communism, and no Cold war!

Initially Nazi Germany thought Communist Russia was going to stay out of the war, and that they would only fight the western front, apart from Poland.

But you say hypocrisy, okay, thanks.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Personally I hate the "native american" argument. Its as bad as the "Hitler" argument people respond with to things.

With that said if we wiped out the native americans today, yes we would get in trouble.

But back then I do agree it wasn't a great idea, however thats how the world has worked until that point. All through history as new land was discovered it usually taken over and in many cases its people were stuck in a war to save it. Considering america was not really a discovered land yet, its obvious it would be taken over. Since there are no new lands to discover then its why no one does that stuff today. Now a once and awhile a country will just go to war with another to try and take it over. But thats not a common thing.

So I don't find what we did as wrong for the time per say. Yes, it wasn't a stupid idea to kill them. But its how the world worked.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Personally I hate the "native american" argument. Its as bad as the "Hitler" argument people respond with to things.

With that said if we wiped out the native americans today, yes we would get in trouble.

But back then I do agree it wasn't a great idea, however thats how the world has worked until that point. All through history as new land was discovered it usually taken over and in many cases its people were stuck in a war to save it. Considering america was not really a discovered land yet, its obvious it would be taken over. Since there are no new lands to discover then its why no one does that stuff today. Now a once and awhile a country will just go to war with another to try and take it over. But thats not a common thing.

So I don't find what we did as wrong for the time per say. Yes, it wasn't a stupid idea to kill them. But its how the world worked.

The church and the world! This forum is Christian, I sometimes post in a science forum. It was possible for atheists in power to try to convert the primitive people to civil life without faith. Although atheism was uncommon then. If the USA had not been won, somehow, we may have struggled a lot more in WW2 or another power, Spain or Germany may have taken up all the land to Canada's north. A good end. But the means was not Christian in my view.

 

[timewerx]

Initially Nazi Germany thought Communist Russia was going to stay out of the war, and that they would only fight the western front, apart from Poland.

But you say hypocrisy, okay, thanks.

Germany and Russia had the Non-Aggression Pact but Hitler was only buying time. Both sides actually knew neither side will not honor it for long and war is at hand.

No one trusted Russia at all which is the irony with the knowledge of a worse evil than Hitler that Stalin is.

It's a miscalculated error which led to the path that WW2 took.

WW2 is inevitable, it simply took a wrong turn which could have otherwise, saved more lives.

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

Personally I hate the "native american" argument. Its as bad as the "Hitler" argument people respond with to things.

With that said if we wiped out the native americans today, yes we would get in trouble.

But back then I do agree it wasn't a great idea, however thats how the world has worked until that point. All through history as new land was discovered it usually taken over and in many cases its people were stuck in a war to save it. Considering america was not really a discovered land yet, its obvious it would be taken over. Since there are no new lands to discover then its why no one does that stuff today. Now a once and awhile a country will just go to war with another to try and take it over. But thats not a common thing.

So I don't find what we did as wrong for the time per say. Yes, it wasn't a stupid idea to kill them. But its how the world worked.

The old world was under the influence of what St Paul warned us of, being the doctrines of demons. That is why they did those thing instead of which were done at first, for the first five centuries of Christendom.

Perhaps without the USA we would not have emerged from those ideas.

Now we have the books and teaching of revival, and great great providence and it is Mammon, that we can look upon and admire, and cherish, even how it came to be and worship Mammon instead of God. In it are vast rich fields, flocks, oil fields, cars, natural wonders, houses, future spouses... and the stories and films, how the west was won, and sci fi...

 

[FireDragon76]

I don't approve of what happened in the 19th century in the US to Native Americans, but your perspective lacks understanding of the American context. I would not equate what happened to the Native Americans with what happened to the Jews in Europe in WWII.

The US official policies towards Native Americans were motivated by misguided ideals such as colonialism and paternalism. Whereas the Nazi regime was motivated by contempt for the Jew's enacted as a systematic policy of extermination carried out on an industrial scale.

The majority of Native Americans actually died from contact with European explorers who unknowingly brought diseases for which the Native Americans had no immunity. This happened even before the earliest European permanent settlements in the Americas.

Many Native Americans did in fact convert to Christianity. Sometimes voluntarily, sometimes through inducements, sometimes through an erroneous understanding of what Christianity was.

 

[Hank77]

I don't approve of what happened in the 19th century in the US to Native Americans, but your perspective lacks understanding of the American context. I would not equate what happened to the Native Americans with what happened to the Jews in Europe in WWII.

The US official policies towards Native Americans were motivated by misguided ideals such as colonialism and paternalism. Whereas the Nazi regime was motivated by contempt for the Jew's enacted as a systematic policy of extermination carried out on an industrial scale.

I agree.

 

[Hank77]

If we look at USA history and the change in laws after WW2 and the action of the Nuremberg trials, and judge the US government and cavalry of the 18th and 19th centuries by the post WW2 Nuremberg trial standards, would they come up as guilty of war crimes?

Yes, I believe Some of the actions would be consider war crimes.

 

[Cuddles333]

If we look at USA history and the change in laws after WW2 and the action of the Nuremberg trials, and judge the US government and cavalry of the 18th and 19th centuries by the post WW2 Nuremberg trial standards, would they come up as guilty of war crimes?

I am inspired to write because a 1930s Australian action to kill a number of aboriginal men in the Northern Territory for hunting a bull was then accepted but later condemned under the standards post WW2. Australia has an element of fair play towards aboriginals.

My great grand father probably left tribal life for work and marriage about 1905.

Native Americans were not converted to Christianity enough or to civil work enough and were killed by disease, sometimes deliberately, by deliberate extermination of Bison to starve the people, sometimes by wars, by rifle, and after all the men were killed sometimes all their women and children were killed or enslaved.

If the wars caused by U. S. expansion onto Native American lands that were agreed to by Treaty, and the methods used by the military in those wars, then yes, the U. S. Government would be guilty of crimes much later laid out in the Hague and Geneva Conventions.

 

[Rion]

Native Americans were not converted to Christianity enough or to civil work enough and were killed by disease, sometimes deliberately

Stahp

Did the U.S. Army Distribute Smallpox Blankets to Indians? Fabrication and Falsification in Ward Churchill's Genocide Rhetoric

 

[GoldenKingGaze]

I think of Ezra 9:1-12 and repentance to God, who alone judges us by our ancestors actions, from ancestral sin.