Through a glass, really, really darkly

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Silmarien

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Hello, everyone! I'm 31 (as of about an hour ago, actually), very, very new to Christianity, and playing a lot of catch up these days. I've decided to register as a Seeker instead of a Christian Church Seeker because my stumbling blocks are epistemological, not denominational. I'd probably describe myself as a Christian agnostic--I think there's something profoundly true at the heart of the religion, but I'm not at all comfortable with doctrine.

I'm in the somewhat frustrating position of being theologically liberal (probably slightly to the right of Marcus Borg for now) without any foundation of faith whatsoever. I was nominally Presbyterian as a child, but was too skeptical and scientifically oriented to be comfortable with Sunday School version of the religion. In college I wandered deeply into atheist existentialism and became more and more hostile towards Christianity until I finally came across Søren Kierkegaard and much of that negativity just evaporated. In the decade since then, I've kind of drifted from an Einsteinian pantheism to a more mystically influenced panentheism, and realized a little bit belately that all my former objections to the idea of revelation no longer really applied.

A moral crisis a few months back shoved me into seeking mode again, so I grabbed a bunch of Spanish mysticism and the Bible, figuring I might as well get around to reading the Gospel. I didn't expect to come away actually believing it, but... that didn't quite go according to plan (i.e., I accept the Resurrection). Now I believe too much to wander off again but not enough to really feel comfortable yet, so I suspect I'll be wandering around in the desert staring into the sun for a while. Hopefully not forever.

Particularly interested in early Christianity, mysticism, philosophy and theology (particularly Christian existentialism), biblical scholarship, and really the intellectual history in general. Also increasingly intrigued by Eastern Orthodoxy--I doubt I'll ever be able to sign on the dotted line there (or possibly anywhere), but I definitely prefer the Eastern to Western approach to soteriology and I may be poking around in that forum for more information.
 

faroukfarouk

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I think you should read the Bible. I know you have read parts, but it is where real faith will come, if you want to be a Christian.
"Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10.17).
 
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AvgJoe

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(i.e., I accept the Resurrection).

Hi Silmarien & welcome to CF!

That is a big step indeed, as believing the resurrection is one of the main parts of salvation. Romans 10:9-10 says,

For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.​
 
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Silmarien

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Thanks for the birthday wishes, guys!

I think you should read the Bible. I know you have read parts, but it is where real faith will come, if you want to be a Christian.

Yeah, I have been. Almost done with the New Testament, and then I get to figure out how to approach the Old Testament. Might need to drop by the local synagogue and see if they'll put up with me, haha.

Hi Silmarien & welcome to CF!

That is a big step indeed, as believing the resurrection is one of the main parts of salvation. Romans 10:9-10 says,

For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.​

Doubly big when you're so skeptical about Scripture that you first need to find extra-biblical evidence that He even existed at all! I have no idea how this happened.
 
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AvgJoe

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Doubly big when you're so skeptical about Scripture that you first need to find extra-biblical evidence that He even existed at all! I have no idea how this happened.

I think someone already mentioned Romans 10:17,

17) So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Faith is the avenue or the instrument God uses to bring salvation to unbelievers. The Bible specifies the way, or the means, that God gives faith to people. “So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Romans 10:17). It is the Word of God that produces faith. Someone could receive faith while hearing a sermon teaching the gospel, someone else by reading about Jesus in the Bible—any time the true gospel of Jesus is communicated, there is potential for faith. This is the means God has chosen. I pray that you will keep on reading the Bible, that your faith will continue to grow.

God bless & Happy B-Day!
 
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Silmarien

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Thank you, guys!

I think someone already mentioned Romans 10:17,

17) So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Faith is the avenue or the instrument God uses to bring salvation to unbelievers. The Bible specifies the way, or the means, that God gives faith to people. “So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Romans 10:17). It is the Word of God that produces faith. Someone could receive faith while hearing a sermon teaching the gospel, someone else by reading about Jesus in the Bible—any time the true gospel of Jesus is communicated, there is potential for faith. This is the means God has chosen. I pray that you will keep on reading the Bible, that your faith will continue to grow.

God bless & Happy B-Day!

You know, I think sometimes it's much subtler than that. I stopped identifying as an atheist years ago while reading Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamazov--not because of the book's Christian message but certainly because of its Christian themes. It's obviously not quite Christian faith, but it's a first step in a very specific direction.
 
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AvgJoe

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Thank you, guys!



You know, I think sometimes it's much subtler than that. I stopped identifying as an atheist years ago while reading Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamazov--not because of the book's Christian message but certainly because of its Christian themes. It's obviously not quite Christian faith, but it's a first step in a very specific direction.

By whatever means, I am glad that God is drawing you to Himself.
 
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zippy2006

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Hello, everyone! I'm 31 (as of about an hour ago, actually), very, very new to Christianity, and playing a lot of catch up these days...

Happy belated birthday. ^_^

So what has happened in the last 18 months?

I had a largely intellectual conversion 8 or 9 years ago, made the rounds, and eventually returned to my childhood Catholicism. Eastern Orthodoxy was and is also on my radar (but of course there are Eastern Churches in union with Rome). I formally studied computer science and philosophy, along with a small bit of theology. I am the same age as you. I dig Tolkien. I was intrigued reading some of your posts, so I wanted to hear your story.
 
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Silmarien

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So what has happened in the last 18 months?

Hahaha, that is a very good question. ^_^

Basically, I found my way to the Thomists and then started eyeing Plotinus with increasing interest. Now... I am not really sure, particularly in terms of the whole revelation angle! Proclus or Augustine, Augustine or Proclus...

But it is late, so I will need to reply to you in more depth tomorrow.
 
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Dave-W

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Yeah, I have been. Almost done with the New Testament, and then I get to figure out how to approach the Old Testament. Might need to drop by the local synagogue and see if they'll put up with me, haha.
Your best bet would be a Conservative synagogue. The orthodox and chassidic groups probably would not give you the time of day, and the Reform movement varies a lot from congregation to congregation. But their approach would probably not give you the solid background you may want anyway.
 
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FireDragon76

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Hahaha, that is a very good question. ^_^

Basically, I found my way to the Thomists and then started eyeing Plotinus with increasing interest. Now... I am not really sure, particularly in terms of the whole revelation angle! Proclus or Augustine, Augustine or Proclus...

But it is late, so I will need to reply to you in more depth tomorrow.

Your attitude isn't that different from many Episcopalians. I might have ended up there myself, if it wasn't for the fact the location I live in is unusually conservative as far as Episcopalians go.
 
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zippy2006

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Basically, I found my way to the Thomists and then started eyeing Plotinus with increasing interest. Now... I am not really sure, particularly in terms of the whole revelation angle! Proclus or Augustine, Augustine or Proclus...

What is the specific difference between Augustine and Proclus on revelation, and are there contemporary parallels? I have some guesses, but given my ignorance of Neoplatonism I've decided not to embarrass myself. :)

Which Thomists were you primarily reading?

But it is late, so I will need to reply to you in more depth tomorrow.

Sure - take your time!
 
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