DEMONIC OPPRESSION VS POSSESSION ??

[PROPHECYKID]

Well I want to share this story and you guys tell me what you think.

There was a lady who used to live around the area where I lived. Every week she used to attend a particular charismatic church and every week or so they would cast demons out of her. Another one of the former members of that church told us that whenever she did not come they would be a bit disappointed because herself along with others would make the service so much more lively. But every time she was there, they had to cast out a demon out of her and it was quite a scene.

She stopped going to that church and started going to my church. The lady was totally fine. No issues. She came to church, worshipped, sang praises, no problem.

How do you explain a situation like this?

 

[Solomons Porch]

Well I want to share this story and you guys tell me what you think.

There was a lady who used to live around the area where I lived. Every week she used to attend a particular charismatic church and every week or so they would cast demons out of her. Another one of the former members of that church told us that whenever she did not come they would be a bit disappointed because herself along with others would make the service so much more lively. But every time she was there, they had to cast out a demon out of her and it was quite a scene.

She stopped going to that church and started going to my church. The lady was totally fine. No issues. She came to church, worshipped, sang praises, no problem.

How do you explain a situation like this?

Very interesting, so "MAYBE" the demons used her within that church only?? As to "entertain" a false religion or spirit of distraction, which would be the purpose of NOT BEING WITH GOD, BUT MAN....?

Whats your thoughts????

 

[Grandpa2390]

May I just add this thought into this just as an example and to hopefully provoke thoughts to ponder and ask the Lord to reveal......

TRUE STORY
In my mid 20's I was a young mother, worked full time, lead worship and praise team within my Pentecostal church, I was on fire and living for the Lord striving to do and be my very best for HIM.

Our praise team was invited to visit a church (pentecostal) about 2 hrs away. We drove there, loaded up equipment, had family members present and filled 2 pews within this church. Everybody there was polite and loving. We "seemed" to fit right in and was invited by a very well known southern gospel group. So I suppose the church/pastor thought highly of the singing group and said yes please bring them and have them minister in song to us during our revival.

I had not met the pastor by this time and we were half way into the service and not yet called up to sing. I had asked a friend that knew the pastor and pointed him out, asking was that him, sitting 2 pews in front of us, on the front row, she said yes it is.

Nearing the time for us to go up, the lady gospel singer asked if she could speak with me outside, I found this very strange and agreed to go outside with her and see what was the matter.

Upon standing outside she said " I am soooooo sorry", tears coming down her face in humiliation, knowing how far we traveled. Said.... the preacher said you and your group cannot sing today UNLESS you go to the bathroom, remove your makeup, take off your earrings and repent, or else you do not sing and you have to leave.

You cant imagine how horrible and yet angry I felt. I thought now I have to go back and tell 2 pews of ppl that came this far, that we will not be participating in todays service and we may have to leave. It felt like someone punched me straight in the gut, for some of the members of the praise team was young in the Lord and was so happy and excited to be a part of this. I was devastated and had a horrible decision to make for I felt that I had to protect them from this what i call "religious spirit".

I took my seat, preacher still sitting 2 rows in front of me, long sleeve shirt and sleeves slightly rolled up. He was covered in tattoos and kept looking slightly back at us. I thought to myself, Lord I am not one to judge, and we came here to glorify Your name. What do I do Lord???

Makeup was not heavy, almost natural to the look. Earrings were small. I mean its not like they were flashing red light earrings, nor our clothing, NOTHING.

As I sat there I heard the Lord tell me this....... Do not move and speak no words. Tell no one nothing, I will make a way for you and you will know when it is time. So I sat there wanting to cry (for those this would hurt).......waiting for the time the Lord said He would provide.

40 minutes into the service.....the southern gospel singers looked at me and said, praise God for sending this group here today and they came to minister.......and before she got any further, God said go NOW.

I started walking up to the front, she looked at me like oh my, i smiled and gave a praise to God for having us here today, looked at my team and said guys if you would come on up now were gonna praise the Lord together. And we sang, hands clapping, people standing worshiping the Lord with us.

I never told the group about this incident as to protect the baby nature. So they left with joy as the Lord told me say nothing. Point is, this man, this preacher claimed to be a christian, full gospel etc.......

At the end of the service, I made him shake my hand. The look of distaste was disgusting to me. But I held my head up and thanked him for the invitation. Almost 2 months later, i got a letter in the mail 4 pages long, someone that attended there apologized for they knew this had happened and that it greieved them this occured. My point is half this congregation claimed to be christians.....

I am a christian, but we must be careful who we mark ourself as, lots of christians are under a false teaching and preaching and that in itself can cause possession. Sorry so long, and thanks

I agree.
There are a lot of people going to a lot of different churches who think they are saved. But they don't know the truth. I am just going to point out the most obvious. Joel Osteen, who doesn't teach the Word. Teaches that Christ is not the only way, etc. These people are being deceived. They think that they are hearing the Word of God, but they aren't. And that makes them even more vulnerable.

@alucardr I don't agree with him anymore than I do with Joel Osteen or Benny Hinn, or anyone else who teaches false doctrine. A true Christian who has the Spirit of God dwelling within them cannot have a demon. The Spirit of God will not dwell with a demon.

I am not an expert on Demon Possession, but it has been my experienced (in life and in biblical example) that those who are possessed do not even have the choice to have that demon cast out. I have yet to see a person truly possessed by demons have the will/desire to bring themselves to a man of god to have that demon cast out.

I do believe that Christians can fall into a period of disobedience and need prayer to help them overcome sinful addictions and stumblings and so forth.

anyways,

I actually used to attend a Oneness Pentecostal Church that was legalistic like that. Now our Pastor was not covered in tattoos and so forth. But the Pharisee attitude drove me insane.

I believe in modesty. Kind of hard for a guy to be immodest, but if I were a woman I would not wear miniskirts and so forth. But I do not look at the way you dress as the yardstick of your spirituality. the holier you dress the more spiritual you are. and if you wear a wedding ring then you are a pagan... whatever. This holier than thou attitude.

But there were standards like:

Women could not wear pants.
Women could not cut their hair.
No jewelry (not even wedding rings)
No makeup.
No short sleeves

Some churches were more strict than others and preached things like:
No Splits (I think the cuts on side the skirt)
Women could only wear skirts and they had to be below the knees or lower depending on the church.

Anyways, so I know the kind of church you are talking about. This church was a reincarnation of the Corinth church. Believed everyone should have the gift of tongues, and everyone should do it at the same time. Interrupting the preaching, no interpretations, just chaos. So that even if someone did have the true gift, It was still being perverted.

 

[Solomons Porch]

I agree.
There are a lot of people going to a lot of different churches who think they are saved. But they don't know the truth. I am just going to point out the most obvious. Joel Osteen, who doesn't teach the Word. Teaches that Christ is not the only way, etc. These people are being deceived. They think that they are hearing the Word of God, but they aren't. And that makes them even more vulnerable.

@alucardr I don't agree with him anymore than I do with Joel Osteen or Benny Hinn, or anyone else who teaches false doctrine. A true Christian who has the Spirit of God dwelling within them cannot have a demon. The Spirit of God will not dwell with a demon.

I am not an expert on Demon Possession, but it has been my experienced (in life and in biblical example) that those who are possessed do not even have the choice to have that demon cast out. I have yet to see a person truly possessed by demons have the will/desire to bring themselves to a man of god to have that demon cast out.

I do believe that Christians can fall into a period of disobedience and need prayer to help them overcome sinful addictions and stumblings and so forth.

anyways,

I actually used to attend a Oneness Pentecostal Church that was legalistic like that. Now our Pastor was not covered in tattoos and so forth. But the Pharisee attitude drove me insane.

I believe in modesty. Kind of hard for a guy to be immodest, but if I were a woman I would not wear miniskirts and so forth. But I do not look at the way you dress as the yardstick of your spirituality. the holier you dress the more spiritual you are. and if you wear a wedding ring then you are a pagan... whatever. This holier than thou attitude.

But there were standards like:

Women could not wear pants.
Women could not cut their hair.
No jewelry (not even wedding rings)
No makeup.
No short sleeves

Some churches were more strict than others and preached things like:
No Splits (I think the cuts on side the skirt)
Women could only wear skirts and they had to be below the knees or lower depending on the church.

Anyways, so I know the kind of church you are talking about. This church was a reincarnation of the Corinth church. Believed everyone should have the gift of tongues, and everyone should do it at the same time. Interrupting the preaching, no interpretations, just chaos. So that even if someone did have the true gift, It was still being perverted.

Right.....which brings us to the point that everyone who claims I AM A CHRISTIAN cannot and may not even know themself what is the truth and what is a lie, because even they are being deceived. I believe those that are anointed, Holy Spirit filled, living a life pleasing to the Father, (not to man) can know thru discernment what is real and what is a lie. They may not want the lie (that they believe) to change, they find it too comfortable staying there. So then challenge represents itself on a high level. As I had stated earlier, the pastors wife of a church i was attending, nobody knew she was possessed "in fact" everybody loved her and adored her. One morning in prayer, just the two of us, she spoke out screaming for me to shut up and stop praying, awful voice and yells. She didnt remember a thing. The anointing of God and the prayers of the righteous makes things happen. Mind you "the church" would have never believed me, they would have to been present to believe. She also began to stalk me at my job, it was insane. Very cunning and unnoticed to the people of the church. It was an awful learning experience, but I am glad I learned this early in life.

 

[frettr00]

@alucardr I don't agree with him anymore than I do with Joel Osteen or Benny Hinn, or anyone else who teaches false doctrine. A true Christian who has the Spirit of God dwelling within them cannot have a demon. The Spirit of God will not dwell with a demon.

I agree that a true Christian, one who isn't still walking in sin, cannot be possessed. It's when people claim to be Christian, but they still hold onto some sins that they open doorways for demons to come into their life. That's all he's saying, people have areas of their life they haven't fully surrendered to the lord so they become victims to this sort of thing.

 

[Grandpa2390]

Well I want to share this story and you guys tell me what you think.

There was a lady who used to live around the area where I lived. Every week she used to attend a particular charismatic church and every week or so they would cast demons out of her. Another one of the former members of that church told us that whenever she did not come they would be a bit disappointed because herself along with others would make the service so much more lively. But every time she was there, they had to cast out a demon out of her and it was quite a scene.

She stopped going to that church and started going to my church. The lady was totally fine. No issues. She came to church, worshipped, sang praises, no problem.

How do you explain a situation like this?

Very interesting, so "MAYBE" the demons used her within that church only?? As to "entertain" a false religion or spirit of distraction, which would be the purpose of NOT BEING WITH GOD, BUT MAN....?

Whats your thoughts????

Oh my goodness! Absolutely! This is the kind of stuff that goes on in Pentecostal churches. The emphasis is not on the truth, not on the Word of God. The emphasis and delight is on miracles and spiritual scenes. Speaking in tongues, casting out demons, getting drunk in the spirit, etc.

The preachers would even say things like "when is the last time you spoke in tongues?" in regards to why your spiritual life is not going well at the moment and you are struggling. It was a scene no matter what if the music was pumping and people let "The spirit move", but if there was someone there who had "a demon", then look out! church could easily go on for 2 hours overtime with the Bible never being opened.

Things to remember:
the people visiting church don't know anything. They are impressionable. They know they need something more than the Physical and they are drawn in by the spiritual claims. With an ignorance of scripture, they can't argue with anything. So they go with the flow and get sucked in. Unfortunately, in these environments, study of the bible is never really pushed. Never really taught. So these people live the rest of their lives (if they stay. A lot of them don't get enough substance to maintain) at that level.

Some of us, by the grace of God, opened up their bible and were led to Teachers and Preachers of the Word like Pastor John Macarthur Jr and learned the truth about things like tongues and demon possession, etc.
And we left that church and are going someplace else.

I cannot put into words the emphasis placed on this stuff. When I say that these charismatic churches are the reincarnation of the church in Corinth, literally. everything that Paul spoke about in the chapter on tongues, is written to this church, but they interpret it to suit their doctrine. The emphasis on a show of spirituality on the outside. If they had been around during the time of Jesus, they would have been chasing him across the sea for another miracle.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Very interesting, so "MAYBE" the demons used her within that church only?? As to "entertain" a false religion or spirit of distraction, which would be the purpose of NOT BEING WITH GOD, BUT MAN....?

Whats your thoughts????

She only seemed to be possessed at church. It is almost like while there she would be told she had a demon and since then she would start acting up and they would cast it out. So like you said she got possessed within the church only and I she was used to entertain a false religion because from what the other guy said, it was a real show.

 

[Grandpa2390]

I agree that a true Christian, one who isn't still walking in sin, cannot be possessed. It's when people claim to be Christian, but they still hold onto some sins that they open doorways for demons to come into their life. That's all he's saying, people have areas of their life they haven't fully surrendered to the lord so they become victims to this sort of thing.

Then they aren't true Christians. 1 John tells us that. 1 John tells us that if anyone continues to sin, then he is a liar and the truth is not in him.

People will say that this means you can backslide and lose your salvation if you commit a sin, and that is wrong. If you continue to live in a pattern of sin then you never truly came to Christ. I can say I am a Christian, but if I keep going out and buying pornography, deliberately, willfully, knowing that what I am doing is wrong but I don't care, I am not a true Christian. I am a liar. And I need some prayer to overcome that.

It is possible to fall into a temporary pattern of sin. This isn't demon possession though. This is just a period of disobedience. Kind of like what Peter went through. What marks a True Disciple from a False Disciple is that True Believer will be disciplined and brought back into a place of obedience by God. God will not allow you to stray if you are truly one of his. You cannot lose your salvation.

 

[Solomons Porch]

Oh my goodness! Absolutely! This is the kind of stuff that goes on in Pentecostal churches. The emphasis is not on the truth, not on the Word of God. The emphasis and delight is on miracles and spiritual scenes. Speaking in tongues, casting out demons, getting drunk in the spirit, etc.

The preachers would even say things like "when is the last time you spoke in tongues?" in regards to why your spiritual life is not going well at the moment and you are struggling. It was a scene no matter what if the music was pumping and people let "The spirit move", but if there was someone there who had "a demon", then look out! church could easily go on for 2 hours overtime with the Bible never being opened.

Things to remember:
the people visiting church don't know anything. They are impressionable. They know they need something more than the Physical and they are drawn in by the spiritual claims. With an ignorance of scripture, they can't argue with anything. So they go with the flow and get sucked in. Unfortunately, in these environments, study of the bible is never really pushed. Never really taught. So these people live the rest of their lives (if they stay. A lot of them don't get enough substance to maintain) at that level.

Some of us, by the grace of God, opened up their bible and were led to Teachers and Preachers of the Word like Pastor John Macarthur Jr and learned the truth about things like tongues and demon possession, etc.
And we left that church and are going someplace else.

I cannot put into words the emphasis placed on this stuff. When I say that these charismatic churches are the reincarnation of the church in Corinth, literally. everything that Paul spoke about in the chapter on tongues, is written to this church, but they interpret it to suit their doctrine. The emphasis on a show of spirituality on the outside. If they had been around during the time of Jesus, they would have been chasing him across the sea for another miracle.

Sorry i had to give u a funny face......because I laughed at your passion and words, it was cute..... But very true

I will not say (ALL) for again that would include those who have seperated themself from these things. But some churches, yes.

When God wants to show up and "make" a spiritual scene, I FOR ONE will tell you, in the presence of the Almighty God, I can barely stand for the holiness and magesty of His presence is overwhelming. The natural body cannot withstand his omnipotence. May we all return to Him

 

[Solomons Porch]

She only seemed to be possessed at church. It is almost like while there she would be told she had a demon and since then she would start acting up and they would cast it out. So like you said she got possessed within the church only and I she was used to entertain a false religion because from what the other guy said, it was a real show.

That is truly sickening to the stomach. God have mercy

 

[Solomons Porch]

What are your thoughts on mental illness and demonic? Here take a pill it will get better, heres your next appointment we can talk about it then.
And whats the divider between once again, possession, oppression and torment ?? And they live like this their whole life and at the age of 50 say they have had enough and commit suicide. Just wondering what others thoughts are???

 

[Grandpa2390]

She only seemed to be possessed at church. It is almost like while there she would be told she had a demon and since then she would start acting up and they would cast it out. So like you said she got possessed within the church only and I she was used to entertain a false religion because from what the other guy said, it was a real show.

could be psychological. a lot of people, i found, come to church because they want to be accepted. The world has rejected them. I am not saying that that is wrong. I'm saying it puts them into a vulnerable position. If this woman were not "demon-possessed" she probably would not get any attention. Or she feels she would not get any attention.

Consciously (or perhaps even subconsciously) she behaves demon possessed to get the attention and acceptance of other people. I don't know her. Maybe that is true, maybe it is off in her case. But I have seen it happen.

To be clear, to all of you who may believe in tongues. I don't want to start a debate. I do believe that it is possible for the Holy Spirit to give out the gift today. But it is real human languages.
Just because I don't understand a language, doesn't mean it isn't real. But before a person speaks in tongues, Paul says to make sure there is an interpreter.

To be clear, to all of you who may believe in tongues. I don't want to start a debate. I do believe that it is possible for the Holy Spirit to give out the gift today. But it is real human languages.
Just because I don't understand a language, doesn't mean it isn't real. But before a person speaks in tongues, Paul says to make sure there is an interpreter.
What I have experienced is a lot of people faking the gift in order to fit in. Because in the charismatic church that I went to, the church was divided (like in Corinth) into the haves and the have nots. Those who had the gift were spiritual and those didn't were unsaved.
most people in the church were either faking it, demon possessed, or as studies have shown, went into a sort of hypnotic trance. It is easy when you are longing for acceptance.

I did it. I faked it because I didn't want to be out on fringes. I wanted to be a part of the church. I wanted to be accepted.
I am usually the least susceptible to peer pressure. so I can say that she might have been faking it for such reasons.

anyways, I am not an expert, so take this as my opinion. I don't even have all the facts. Take it with a grain of salt Not as me trying to declare the truth.

 

[Solomons Porch]

could be psychological. a lot of people, i found, come to church because they want to be accepted. The world has rejected them. I am not saying that that is wrong. I'm saying it puts them into a vulnerable position. If this woman were not "demon-possessed" she probably would not get any attention. Or she feels she would not get any attention.

Consciously (or perhaps even subconsciously) she behaves demon possessed to get the attention and acceptance of other people. I don't know her. Maybe that is true, maybe it is off in her case. But I have seen it happen.

To be clear, to all of you who may believe in tongues. I don't want to start a debate. I do believe that it is possible for the Holy Spirit to give out the gift today. But it is real human languages.
Just because I don't understand a language, doesn't mean it isn't real. But before a person speaks in tongues, Paul says to make sure there is an interpreter.

To be clear, to all of you who may believe in tongues. I don't want to start a debate. I do believe that it is possible for the Holy Spirit to give out the gift today. But it is real human languages.
Just because I don't understand a language, doesn't mean it isn't real. But before a person speaks in tongues, Paul says to make sure there is an interpreter.
What I have experienced is a lot of people faking the gift in order to fit in. Because in the charismatic church that I went to, the church was divided (like in Corinth) into the haves and the have nots. Those who had the gift were spiritual and those didn't were unsaved.
most people in the church were either faking it, demon possessed, or as studies have shown, went into a sort of hypnotic trance. It is easy when you are longing for acceptance.

I did it. I faked it because I didn't want to be out on fringes. I wanted to be a part of the church.

I believe that if someone speaks out (alone) in a service in tongues and there is no interpretation that is dangerous grounds. But as for me, the Holy Spirit allowing me the privelege of praying in tongues to the Father is a treasure, He is able to say the words straight to the Father that I do not have, esp in warfare or grief when the heart and mind are struggling. It is very cleansing. But that is for me personally.

And yes I do agree on your point of people doing these things to draw attention as they are insecure (within themself) but portray a totally different character to the church. Very deceiving.

 

[Solomons Porch]

I agree.
There are a lot of people going to a lot of different churches who think they are saved. But they don't know the truth. I am just going to point out the most obvious. Joel Osteen, who doesn't teach the Word. Teaches that Christ is not the only way, etc. These people are being deceived. They think that they are hearing the Word of God, but they aren't. And that makes them even more vulnerable.

@alucardr I don't agree with him anymore than I do with Joel Osteen or Benny Hinn, or anyone else who teaches false doctrine. A true Christian who has the Spirit of God dwelling within them cannot have a demon. The Spirit of God will not dwell with a demon.

I am not an expert on Demon Possession, but it has been my experienced (in life and in biblical example) that those who are possessed do not even have the choice to have that demon cast out. I have yet to see a person truly possessed by demons have the will/desire to bring themselves to a man of god to have that demon cast out.

I do believe that Christians can fall into a period of disobedience and need prayer to help them overcome sinful addictions and stumblings and so forth.

anyways,

I actually used to attend a Oneness Pentecostal Church that was legalistic like that. Now our Pastor was not covered in tattoos and so forth. But the Pharisee attitude drove me insane.

I believe in modesty. Kind of hard for a guy to be immodest, but if I were a woman I would not wear miniskirts and so forth. But I do not look at the way you dress as the yardstick of your spirituality. the holier you dress the more spiritual you are. and if you wear a wedding ring then you are a pagan... whatever. This holier than thou attitude.

But there were standards like:

Women could not wear pants.
Women could not cut their hair.
No jewelry (not even wedding rings)
No makeup.
No short sleeves

Some churches were more strict than others and preached things like:
No Splits (I think the cuts on side the skirt)
Women could only wear skirts and they had to be below the knees or lower depending on the church.

Anyways, so I know the kind of church you are talking about. This church was a reincarnation of the Corinth church. Believed everyone should have the gift of tongues, and everyone should do it at the same time. Interrupting the preaching, no interpretations, just chaos. So that even if someone did have the true gift, It was still being perverted.

Can I add this thought in before it slips away from me for I am passionate about what I am fixing to say........

TO THE WOMEN OUT THERE AND THE MOTHERS OF YOUNG DAUGHTERS......

I kid you not, when I dress for church, i do a test with my clothing. I raise my hands, i bend over, i kneel....... Why do I do this????
Because if I am there to serve and praise the Lord, HOW DARE i be apart of satans kingdom by presenting myself as a distraction to the men and women of the church. I should not allow myself to be out there for public display showing off parts of my body that belong to my husband, or my daughters parts that belongs to the Lord. Men have a struggle in this world and the struggle is real......They saved, not blind, hello??? Can i get a witness?? So lets be mindful of our attire, we are there for Christ and how dare you use yourself to cause another man to fall and NOT hear the word of God. OK......im done now

 

[Grandpa2390]

Sorry i had to give u a funny face......because I laughed at your passion and words, it was cute..... But very true

I'm a very passionate person about things like this. Especially when I have witnessed first hand the effects.

What are your thoughts on mental illness and demonic? Here take a pill it will get better, heres your next appointment we can talk about it then.

I don't know. I believe there can be a difference. Mental illness isn't exactly understood completely. Right now there is a myth that mental illnesses are caused by chemical imbalances. But I listened to a neuroscientist discuss how that is a myth perpetuated by the drug companies. The reality is that drugs just work to get rid of the symptoms. In the beginning, because of that, it was a good hypothesis, but research is showing that it isn't that simple.

And whats the divider between once again, possession, oppression and torment ?? And they live like this their whole life and at the age of 50 say they have had enough and commit suicide. Just wondering what others thoughts are???

I have never heard the demonic oppression term used before. so it is difficult for me to define it in a way that I would feel comfortable. Anyone can feel free to say "Gramps, that is not what demonic oppression is" and I would have to say, what is the definition. I have not seen that term in scripture or any commentary that I have ever read.

I will take my best shot though. For lack of better metaphors:

Possession is when the person becomes a demonic puppet. Think about the lad who was possessed by legion, and then Jesus sent legion into the beasts. That is possession. I think about examples of possession that I have seen and heard, and it is like Hollywood portrays. demonic voice, violence, etc. and when the demon is cast out, it goes away. No drugs required.

To me oppression means like... a struggle. If my boss is giving me a rough day that is causing me to struggle to keep my Christianity (metaphorically). I am struggling not to lose control of my tongue and have the wrong beatittudes... that is demonic oppression... to me. To me it just means the daily struggles/battles that test us/tempt us/etc.

Demonic Torment... I'm not sure that is different from possession. Feel free to quote examples from scripture. But it seems like a person possessed and a person tormented by demons is one and the same. Maybe torment is a step above possession. You are tormented by them, driven into insanity, anger, depression, but you are not controlled. I haven't looked up the verses, but I am immediately thinking of David and Saul and the instrument soothing his spirit from the tormentation. Saul wasn't possessed, But I think he was tormented?

So... from least worst to worst:
Oppression: struggles caused by demons and demonic influence. I have a friend who just discovered her child is struggling with different things, and it is rough.

Tormentation: Demonic Torture. I imagine stories like nightmares, seeing things in your room. I believe there is a story about Martin Luther who had a struggle with a demon that was so real that he threw his inkpot at the wall and the stain remained on the wall for a long time as a reminder of that battle.

possession: becoming a Demonic puppet. the demon takes over and controls you.
One of the aspects I liked about the Matrix was the parallels to Christianity. And when Morpheus is defining to Neo who the agents are, Demon and Demonic possession is spot on. "They can move in and out of any software still hard wired to their system."

and take control. The person who was, is no longer there. Unrecognizeable. If you were possessed by a demon, no one would know who you were anymore. as opposed to tormented where they would your personality and such would still be there but it would be a tormented one.

 

[Grandpa2390]

Can I add this thought in before it slips away from me for I am passionate about what I am fixing to say........

TO THE WOMEN OUT THERE AND THE MOTHERS OF YOUNG DAUGHTERS......

I kid you not, when I dress for church, i do a test with my clothing. I raise my hands, i bend over, i kneel.......

sit down and see if you have to constantly stretch your skirt over your knees

Why do I do this????
Because if I am there to serve and praise the Lord, HOW DARE i be apart of satans kingdom by presenting myself as a distraction to the men and women of the church. I should not allow myself to be out there for public display showing off parts of my body that belong to my husband, or my daughters parts that belongs to the Lord. Men have a struggle in this world and the struggle is real......They saved, not blind, hello??? Can i get a witness?? So lets be mindful of our attire, we are there for Christ and how dare you use yourself to cause another man to fall and NOT hear the word of God. OK......im done now

 

[Solomons Porch]

I'm a very passionate person about things like this. Especially when I have witnessed first hand the effects.


I don't know. I believe there can be a difference. Mental illness isn't exactly understood completely. Right now there is a myth that mental illnesses are caused by chemical imbalances. But I listened to a neuroscientist discuss how that is a myth perpetuated by the drug companies. The reality is that drugs just work to get rid of the symptoms. In the beginning, because of that, it was a good hypothesis, but research is showing that it isn't that simple.


I have never heard the demonic oppression term used before. so it is difficult for me to define it in a way that I would feel comfortable. Anyone can feel free to say "Gramps, that is not what demonic oppression is" and I would have to say, what is the definition. I have not seen that term in scripture or any commentary that I have ever read.

I will take my best shot though. For lack of better metaphors:

Possession is when the person becomes a demonic puppet. Think about the lad who was possessed by legion, and then Jesus sent legion into the beasts. That is possession. I think about examples of possession that I have seen and heard, and it is like Hollywood portrays. demonic voice, violence, etc. and when the demon is cast out, it goes away. No drugs required.

To me oppression means like... a struggle. If my boss is giving me a rough day that is causing me to struggle to keep my Christianity (metaphorically). I am struggling not to lose control of my tongue and have the wrong beatittudes... that is demonic oppression... to me. To me it just means the daily struggles/battles that test us/tempt us/etc.

Demonic Torment... I'm not sure that is different from possession. Feel free to quote examples from scripture. But it seems like a person possessed and a person tormented by demons is one and the same. Maybe torment is a step above possession. You are tormented by them, driven into insanity, anger, depression, but you are not controlled. I haven't looked up the verses, but I am immediately thinking of David and Saul and the instrument soothing his spirit from the tormentation. Saul wasn't possessed, But I think he was tormented?

So... from least worst to worst:
Oppression: struggles caused by demons and demonic influence. I have a friend who just discovered her child is struggling with different things, and it is rough.

Tormentation: Demonic Torture. I imagine stories like nightmares, seeing things in your room. I believe there is a story about Martin Luther who had a struggle with a demon that was so real that he threw his inkpot at the wall and the stain remained on the wall for a long time as a reminder of that battle.

possession: becoming a Demonic puppet. the demon takes over and controls you.
One of the aspects I liked about the Matrix was the parallels to Christianity. And when Morpheus is defining to Neo who the agents are, Demon and Demonic possession is spot on. "They can move in and out of any software still hard wired to their system."

and take control. The person who was, is no longer there. Unrecognizeable. If you were possessed by a demon, no one would know who you were anymore. as opposed to tormented where they would your personality and such would still be there but it would be a tormented one.

not to bad Gramps

 

[Grandpa2390]

I believe that if someone speaks out (alone) in a service in tongues and there is no interpretation that is dangerous grounds. But as for me, the Holy Spirit allowing me the privelege of praying in tongues to the Father is a treasure, He is able to say the words straight to the Father that I do not have, esp in warfare or grief when the heart and mind are struggling. It is very cleansing. But that is for me personally.

And yes I do agree on your point of people doing these things to draw attention as they are insecure (within themself) but portray a totally different character to the church. Very deceiving.

This isn't really the forum to discuss this topic. I don't want to derail the thread. I used to believe these things.
I will just point out that biblically, the spiritual gifts were not given for self-edification.

Paul was telling them that it doesn't matter how you speak, even if you somehow spoke in a holiest of holy languages, it would be meaningless without love. not saying there was such a language.

He said himself that we would not even pray in an unknown language.
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

Pray in a language you understand. The Holy Spirit is still groaning on your behalf. No worries. You can pray in spanish if you know spanish. or french etc. But if you are praying for other people (in front of other people) you Paul says to pray in their language unless there is an interpreter. that goes for the real and the counterfeit. We should not go to Portugal, enter a church and start preaching/praying in english. No one could understand unless there was someone there to translate english to portugal. No one would be edified. because no one could understand your prayer or sermon. Amen?
We can agree when it comes to real languages I am sure right? Would you be edified if you went to a church that you did not understand the language?

 

[Grandpa2390]

@Solomons Porch
In case it is too late to edit my post. Whatever you do in your private prayer. As long as the church is not be interrupted like you said then it is cool. I would just pray that you do also pray to God in a language you understand and control with your own mind. It is important to pray on your own behalf as well.

 

[Solomons Porch]

This isn't really the forum to discuss this topic. I don't want to derail the thread. I used to believe these things.
I will just point out that biblically, the spiritual gifts were not given for self-edification.

Paul was telling them that it doesn't matter how you speak, even if you somehow spoke in a holiest of holy languages, it would be meaningless without love. not saying there was such a language.

He said himself that we would not even pray in an unknown language.
For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

Pray in a language you understand. The Holy Spirit is still groaning on your behalf. No worries. You can pray in spanish if you know spanish. or french etc. But if you are praying for other people (in front of other people) you Paul says to pray in their language unless there is an interpreter. that goes for the real and the counterfeit. We should not go to Portugal, enter a church and start preaching/praying in english. No one could understand unless there was someone there to translate english to portugal. No one would be edified. because no one could understand your prayer or sermon. Amen?
We can agree when it comes to real languages I am sure right? Would you be edified if you went to a church that you did not understand the language?

You make me laugh. I partly agree and you right Pops, wrong thread lol......coming up in here like a boss......I kinda like your style though, go ahead with your bad self