NO MORE PREACHING ON HELL

[BukiRob]

But isn't Revelation supposed to be a prediction of the future unless it was a symbolic representation of the Roman Empire)?

Answer the question yourself..... the war in heaven HAD to have taken place BEFORE the Garden. If it is as you say that the war in heaven has NOT yet occurred and Satan is still in Heaven.....

We KNOW that is not the case.....

Those cast and/or those who were swept out were cast DOWN to the earth.... And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole [d]world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying,

“Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, he who accuses them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even [e]when faced with death. 12 For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who [f]dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time.”


Does it not strike you as odd that IMMEDIATELY after the rebellious ones are cast down to the earth you have that sentence in bold?

We are WITHOUT EXCUSE. G-d could have justifiably simply destroyed is for our act of sedition and rebellious treason. G-d created a way of redemption. He is JUST though.... which means he has given us over to rebellion and it is why EVERYONE OF US... has a rebellious nature.

 

[BukiRob]

huge contradiction here dear brethren..... Your testimony has been preached by you, therefore, you are and have preached. which hereby makes you a preacher. Do you not see? be careful friend, the holy spirit is alive.

You misunderstand what I am saying. The testimony to the unsaved is the WALK.... and when asked.... then I am speaking to a receptive soul.

 

[Fishsack]

You misunderstand what I am saying. The testimony to the unsaved is the WALK.... and when asked.... then I am speaking to a receptive soul.

oh yes... got it. well I still love you like a diabetic loves cake. yumm yum yum yum yummmm .......hehhehehe..... May God bless you my loving Friend.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Hey guys can I switch this up a little bit.....?????
I know I posted the thread on hell and the teaching and preaching that there really is a hell just as there is a heaven, there is a hell. Just as there is a God there is a satan. Just as there is good there is bad.

My point is this....... to say there is a hell means that there is a satan, right? or no?
To say there is a heaven means that there is a God, right? or no?

And if there is a God who sits on the throne, and IF there is Jesus who died for our sins and is seated at the right hand of the Father, ever making intercession for us, pleading our case........

Why would Jesus plead our case if there wasn't an accuser? And if so who is the accuser?

So what is Jesus trying to intercede and save us from?? what is to be saved from???
Who is accusing us?
And what's his point in accusing us?
What can he gain for accusing us?

Why would it take a life, displayed in public, beaten and tortured for what "HE claimed" was for our sins to be washed away and the perfect Lamb was slain.......Thats a high cost and the price was paid, what did the blood of Jesus save us from???

In Hebrew, satans name is the accuser.
He is subtle.
He doesn't come to you and say:
Hi, I'm satan, I'm going to accuse you of your failures to try and make you give up with Christianity.
He appeals to your rational mind by planting thoughts there.
We are all acutely aware of our shortcomings.
He reminds you the christian is called to live a holy and pure life. They cannot live a life of sin and expect to get to heaven. Then he gets you to dwell on your faliures and ask yourself If you really are saved, due to all your imperfections.
You think this just your natural doubts/ thought process, but satan plants the thoughts in your head. Thus he accuses you, without you often realising it is him doing it

 

[Solomons Porch]

Really? Living conditions in general seem to be improving in many places.

Abortion
Lawlessness
Murder
Slander
Disrespectful children
Mothers and Fathers not caring for their own
Abandonment
Neglect
Gangs
Violence
Men sleeping with men, women sleeping with women (marriage as well)
Men going to womens bathroom
Women going to mens bathroom
I could go on and on and on........
Define living conditions are generally seeming to improve??

 

[christiansquander]

What the answer to your question should be is that "Hell" is not Biblical. The word neither appears in the original Hebrew nor Greek texts and is a false pagan concept inserted by early church patriarchs to control the masses (all of which Jesus predicted would happen). That is the simple truth: Hell is a lie. Check out tentmaker.org for starters and if you need more references I will happily lead you to them or discuss more. Remember, Jesus is the Saviour of ALL people (1 Tim 4:10). ALL means ALL! And we are saved by God's Grace, not by our choice (Ephesian 2:8-9). Much love!

 

[Solomons Porch]

Thanks for the invite thats very sweet of you.
So if there is no hell.
If you have a 51 yr old woman, never gave her life to Christ, lived an awful evil life, doing no good at all, in fact denied there is a God.
When she dies what happens to her and where does she go?

 

[CrystalDragon]

Abortion
Lawlessness
Murder
Slander
Disrespectful children
Mothers and Fathers not caring for their own
Abandonment
Neglect
Gangs
Violence
Men sleeping with men, women sleeping with women (marriage as well)
Men going to womens bathroom
Women going to mens bathroom
I could go on and on and on........
Define living conditions are generally seeming to improve??

Almost all those things have existed in some form for quite a while, most of them even in the Bible. Don't act like it's anything new.

There's less poverty, more ways to eradicate diseases, and ways to live longer.

Here's some good articles on why the world is better now (and why people tend to think it's worse):

The World is Better Now Than Ever in History, but I Bet You Don’t Believe It

6 Reasons The World Is Actually Better Now Than It Has Ever Been

Why Today Is Better Than the Past - Next Avenue

Don't Look to the 'Good Old Days': 31 Ways Life Is Better than Ever Before

The Good Old Days Were Fine. These Days Are Better

8 Surprising Reasons Life Is Much Better Now Than Ever (PHOTOS)

 

[stuart lawrence]

What the answer to your question should be is that "Hell" is not Biblical. The word neither appears in the original Hebrew nor Greek texts and is a false pagan concept inserted by early church patriarchs to control the masses (all of which Jesus predicted would happen). That is the simple truth: Hell is a lie. Check out tentmaker.org for starters and if you need more references I will happily lead you to them or discuss more. Remember, Jesus is the Saviour of ALL people (1 Tim 4:10). ALL means ALL! And we are saved by God's Grace, not by our choice (Ephesian 2:8-9). Much love!

When Paul stated the sexually immoral, impure, idoators etc could not inherit the kingdom of God, what did he mean?
Gal5:19-21

 

[Solomons Porch]

Almost all those things have existed in some form for quite a while, most of them even in the Bible. Don't act like it's anything new.

There's less poverty, more ways to eradicate diseases, and ways to live longer.

Here's some good articles on why the world is better now (and why people tend to think it's worse):

The World is Better Now Than Ever in History, but I Bet You Don’t Believe It

6 Reasons The World Is Actually Better Now Than It Has Ever Been

Why Today Is Better Than the Past - Next Avenue

Don't Look to the 'Good Old Days': 31 Ways Life Is Better than Ever Before

The Good Old Days Were Fine. These Days Are Better

8 Surprising Reasons Life Is Much Better Now Than Ever (PHOTOS)

Lol.......ummm yeah so first of all, I am not "acting" .
Thank you for all of the wonderful material that I should read so that I no longer have to "act" like the world is...... not improved , yeh thats the word I need to use. These resources will surely help me see my wrong thinking etc. Im literally at a loss for words right now..... all I can say is WOW !!

 

[PROPHECYKID]

What is so untrue about God's Love?

You're pretending to miss and misrepresent my point right?

When did I say preaching about God's love was untrue?

 

[Episaw]

A lot of preachers won't talk about sin, let alone hell. The word exhorts us that not many of us should become teachers, because we will be judged by a stricter standard. I am blessed to be in an area where there are godly pastors who do talk about sin and judgement.

Lucky you brother.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Thanks for the invite thats very sweet of you.
So if there is no hell.
If you have a 51 yr old woman, never gave her life to Christ, lived an awful evil life, doing no good at all, in fact denied there is a God.
When she dies what happens to her and where does she go?

Many years ago someone wrote a spoof account of what Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin wanted.

It went something like this:

"We want:

1) Golan
2) Jerusalem
3) West Bank
4) Gaza
5) Sinai
6) Peace"

I think that today some professing church people approach doctrine and theology similarly.

Something like this:

"We want:

1) No Bible
2) To abolish hell.
3) Parenthood is oppressive and preferably avoidable
4) Let lawyers and social workers take entire responsibility for children; and let higher taxes - which will supposedly stop so called global warming - pay for all the lawyers and social workers who must replace parents
5) All ways equally ensure heaven; and if God is thought to question this, then He is supposedly to be overruled
6) Heaven.

In the case of both lists, by the time one comes to no. 6 on each list, the word 'unrealistic' definitely comes to mind.

 

[Rajni]

So simple question. Do you believe there is a hell?

I no longer do. I mean, I do believe there are hellish experiences, even in this physical dimension we have those. But I don't believe in the classical concept of endless torment anymore.

And I do believe that is what the forums are for.....discussing and seeking to know the truth. By sharing each ones thoughts etc. Not to say one is right or one is wrong. But to know the truth and seek answers within each other, in peace.

I agree, although CF does have rules pertaining to how the subject of hell is handled by those of us who outright don't subscribe to it. There is only one area where I could really expound on my beliefs on the matter, and that's in the Controversial Theology area. That's why in this area, I'm being careful not to elaborate too much on my views on this. But I've done so (ad nauseam ) in the Controversial section, in the past.


-

 

[Solomons Porch]

I no longer do. I mean, I do believe there are hellish experiences, even in this physical dimension we have those. But I don't believe in the classical concept of endless torment anymore.

I agree, although CF does have rules pertaining to how the subject of hell is handled by those of us who outright don't subscribe to it. There is only one area where I could really expound on my beliefs on the matter, and that's in the Controversial Theology area. That's why in this area, I'm being careful not to elaborate too much on my views on this. But I've done so (ad nauseam ) in the Controversial section, in the past.


-

ok thanks

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

We Orthodox hold to the ancient teaching of the Fathers that there is NO PLACE in the universe where God is not present....period. Scripture shows us this in numerous places. You cannot escape God's omnipresent existence. Upon death we will encounter God's uncreated Light, the very Being of who He is. In Orthodoxy it is stressed that there is one of two reactions:

a) a soothing, wonderful, glorious, joyous warmth as if you came into a cabin frost-bitten by the coldness of the world and felt the most perfect crackling fire in the fireplace.....a real thawing out and peace.

b) a burning

For the soul that has cultivated God's grace, shed the ego, lived the Gospel, admitted he is a sinner in desperate need of God's mercy, the soul that longs for God and yearns more for him than the things of this world, option A is likely.

For the soul that has cultivated the ego, the flesh, the values of the seculars, the selfishness and pride of this world, the spiritual instinct is to avoid God like a disease, and the spiritual quality of that man will feel burning.

We Orthodox don't need to be reminded of the sadness of the burning. We know Christ descended into Hades and conquered death by infusing Life into a place that is the exact opposite. We see the Cross as a means to smash death and infuse life into the matrix of Satan's handiwork, overthrowing it utterly. We focus on the Christian Hope, not the despair of hell. Hell is a spiritual disposition with the jail cell having the lock on the inside and the key in the inmate's hand.

It is not some cheesy Bugs Bunnyish place away from God, for there IS NO place devoid of God. You can run, but you can't hide. The Ancients tell us this. It's only in modernity that we hear the folly that hell is apart from God. It's the exact opposite. Think of running into an old girlfriend you broke up with badly years ago. You want to avoid her like a plague! Same with God if you aren't repentant.

We must focus on Christ and share the faith with people through hope, not the threat of hell. That is always looming over us!

Here lately I have wondered why I do not hear ANY sermons preached on hell. I grew up Pentecostal and all those years I would hear preaching on hell fire, repent and give your life to Christ. Many times I saw the Holy Spirit convict people during these sermons and they would practically run to the altar. It seems here lately and has been happening for years now that preachers no longer preach on this matter. Why has everything turned into a pretty package, tickle your ears service?? Why have we strayed away from this? The preacher used to pour out his heart to the congregation, pleading the case of Jesus to turn from the wickedness of this world for there is a heaven and there is a hell, choose today who you will serve, repent for the time is drawing near. What happened to this teaching and preaching, it seems it has all but vanished?

 

[Solomons Porch]

We Orthodox hold to the ancient teaching of the Fathers that there is NO PLACE in the universe where God is not present....period. Scripture shows us this in numerous places. You cannot escape God's omnipresent existence. Upon death we will encounter God's uncreated Light, the very Being of who He is. In Orthodoxy it is stressed that there is one of two reactions:

a) a soothing, wonderful, glorious, joyous warmth as if you came into a cabin frost-bitten by the coldness of the world and felt the most perfect crackling fire in the fireplace.....a real thawing out and peace.

b) a burning

For the soul that has cultivated God's grace, shed the ego, lived the Gospel, admitted he is a sinner in desperate need of God's mercy, the soul that longs for God and yearns more for him than the things of this world, option A is likely.

For the soul that has cultivated the ego, the flesh, the values of the seculars, the selfishness and pride of this world, the spiritual instinct is to avoid God like a disease, and the spiritual quality of that man will feel burning.

We Orthodox don't need to be reminded of the sadness of the burning. We know Christ descended into Hades and conquered death by infusing Life into a place that is the exact opposite. We see the Cross as a means to smash death and infuse life into the matrix of Satan's handiwork, overthrowing it utterly. We focus on the Christian Hope, not the despair of hell. Hell is a spiritual disposition with the jail cell having the lock on the inside and the key in the inmate's hand.

It is not some cheesy Bugs Bunnyish place away from God, for there IS NO place devoid of God. You can run, but you can't hide. The Ancients tell us this. It's only in modernity that we hear the folly that hell is apart from God. It's the exact opposite. Think of running into an old girlfriend you broke up with badly years ago. You want to avoid her like a plague! Same with God if you aren't repentant.

We must focus on Christ and share the faith with people through hope, not the threat of hell. That is always looming over us!

I agree that we are to reach people thru the message of Jesus Christ in His love there is no denying that. But even if we take away the word "hell" and replace it with "consequences" for denying Him and living a sinful unrepented lifestyle, going about our selfish lustful desires of life, never accepting the ramifications of sinning......

I just wonder where does that lead people if we are only choosing "the good" and leaving out the "bad". As one suggested earlier in this thread that she thinks the world is greatly improving as compared to the good ole days......I still dont know what to say about that because it blows my mind. God Bless !! Thank you for sharing.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Just a thought...........

Maybe the reason that preachers are not teaching a concept of endless torment anymore is that they know it is a false doctrine and do not want to be responsible for teaching a false view.

They can not teach the truth about hell because as stated in several posts in this thread they would lose money, members and their jobs.

 

[Solomons Porch]

Just a thought...........

Maybe the reason that preachers are not teaching a concept of endless torment anymore is that they know it is a false doctrine and do not want to be responsible for teaching a false view.

They can not teach the truth about hell because as stated in several posts in this thread they would lose money, members and their jobs.

Better to lose money, members and jobs that an eternity in a place without God. (sad) There is an appointment where we must be held accountable to Him. The blood on our hands are too many to fathom.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

no I am referring to the place of torment and fire as in Jesus words about lazarus and the rich man. It is a real place where the departed spirits go when they die. The body sleeps in the grave but their spirits are in hell. They are conscious after death.

But this is not the post for that long talk, Im sure many have discussed your ideas about hell in other post

Take time to look at these articles

The Biblical Doctrine of Hell
From "The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment"
By Thomas B. Thayer
Written in 1855

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus furnishes another example. "And in hell (hades) he lifted up his eyes, being in torment." It will be remembered that the Jews had borrowed their ideas of torment in a future state from the heathen, and of course they were obliged to borrow their terms to express this. Accordingly, after the manner of the Greeks, Hades, or the place of departed spirits, is represented as receiving all, as Sheol did, good and bad; but we have also the additional idea of separate apartments or districts, divided by a great gulf or river; on one side of which the blessed are located, and on the other side the damned, near enough to see each other, and converse together, as in the case of Abraham and the rich man.

It must also be remembered that this is only a parable, and not a real history; for, as Dr. Whitby affirms, "we find this very parable in the Gemara Babylonicum." The story was not new, then, not original with Christ, but known among the Jews before He repeated it. He borrowed the parable from them, and employed it to show the judgment which awaited them. He represented the spiritual favors and privileges of the Jews by the wealth and luxury of the rich man, and the spiritual poverty of the Gentiles by the beggary and infirmity of Lazarus; and while the former would be deprived of their privileges and punished for their wickedness, the latter would enjoy the blessings of truth and faith.

The question may arise, "If Christ employed the language used by the Jews to express the torments of hell after death, did He not virtually sanction the doctrine?"

The Origin and History of the Doctrine of Endless Punishment

Second article;

It's not about the punishment of the wicked, but about the legendary fate of a legendary rich man, and the legendary fate of a legendary poor man.

Neither the soul or the spirit of either the Rich Man or Lazarus is mentioned.

The Rich Man, Lazarus, & the Afterlife