Jack Chick's View on Catholicism

[Anto9us]

I seem to remember that he started off with Montanist views but rejected them in favour of orthodox theology.

Uh... Oscarr, I think you've got that puppy flipped over on the other side...

Tertullian started off orthodox, and later went Montanist.
He had written stuff on the Trinity while still orthodox, and I believe was first to use Latin term "Trinitas"

As I understand Montanism, it gave a primacy to a person receiving a voice from the Spirit over and above hierarchical authorities and even Scripture.
Certainly WRONG AS ALL GET-OUT, but not technically HAIRY-TICK, imo,

someone above has rightly said above that Montanism can be likened to Pentecostalism in some regards; but to me "Pentecostalism" itself does not seem homogenous;

the UPC certainly believes in the Holy Ghost, but as far as I understand it, does not see the Holy Ghost and the Son and the Father as being one "ousias"; whereas Assembly of God -- definitely PENTECOSTAL, has a normative view of the Trinity as far as I know.

I guess here at CF it is best to let posters from a certain group define that view for us, lest we fall into this deal of "Oh -- you are MISREPRESNTING "X"-ism !!"

But we all have the Bible and Church History to explain to us the other denominations which we ARE NOT.

Here at CF, there is Oriental Orthodox -- and Eastern Orthodox -- forums, but none called Greek Orthodox (which I would assume is EO, but dunno for sure)

 

[Anto9us]

Wrong! The big split was more about the personality clash between Patriarch Michael of Constantinople and Cardinal Humbert from Silva Candida.

Brendon, this is a BIT MUCH -- to dismiss THE GREAT SCHISM as merely a "personality conflict" between two individuals?

C'mon, Man!

 

[Anto9us]

I have heard of the term "a Jack Mormon" -- but don't know what that means -- and we are not supposed to discuss Mormonism in this forum anyhow...

But I hereby propose the term:
"Jack Chick Protestant"
to be a Protestant with too negative a view of our Catholic brethren

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Eeeeewwwwwwwwwwww

I did not realize camels did that. Which ones have this ability? What about Llamas and Alpacas?

Dromedary Dromedary - Wikipedia.
Though I have read they all can, and also male/females can, but apparently this species (single hump-Arabian) the males are known for it and apparently females rarely - been suggested as a male "hey yal watch this" kind of thing but I guess they are not sure why or what other purpose it might serve. If you got it flaunt it I guess.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Uh... Oscarr, I think you've got that puppy flipped over on the other side...

Tertullian started off orthodox, and later went Montanist.
He had written stuff on the Trinity while still orthodox, and I believe was first to use Latin term "Trinitas"

As I understand Montanism, it gave a primacy to a person receiving a voice from the Spirit over and above hierarchical authorities and even Scripture.
Certainly WRONG AS ALL GET-OUT, but not technically HAIRY-TICK, imo,

someone above has rightly said above that Montanism can be likened to Pentecostalism in some regards; but to me "Pentecostalism" itself does not seem homogenous;

the UPC certainly believes in the Holy Ghost, but as far as I understand it, does not see the Holy Ghost and the Son and the Father as being one "ousias"; whereas Assembly of God -- definitely PENTECOSTAL, has a normative view of the Trinity as far as I know.

I guess here at CF it is best to let posters from a certain group define that view for us, lest we fall into this deal of "Oh -- you are MISREPRESNTING "X"-ism !!"

But we all have the Bible and Church History to explain to us the other denominations which we ARE NOT.

Here at CF, there is Oriental Orthodox -- and Eastern Orthodox -- forums, but none called Greek Orthodox (which I would assume is EO, but dunno for sure)

Btw, yes, Greek Orthodox is one of the jurisdictions that is part of Eastern Orthodox (along with Russian Orthodox, Antiochian, and many others), but although we share a very, very great deal with Oriental Orthodox, we are not in communion (a regrettable situation, to my way of thinking, and hopefully will be healed, perhaps?), but this is likely why there is an EO forum and an OO forum.

 

[Anto9us]

Luther, Calvin and Zwingli "became Protestants" for deeply-held THEOLOGICAL CONVICTIONS -- however much we agree or disagree with their views -- whereas ANGLICANISM (The Church of England) "became Protestant" for the most UNTHEOLOGICAL AND UNSPIRITUAL cause you could ever dream up -- Henry 8th wanted yet another divorce, Pope said NO, Henry said "I hereby make my own church - archbishop of Canterbury is now 'my pope'!"

Methodism springs from Anglicanism -- Wesley, by sheer historical accident -- was in a "protestant" milieu; and Methodism sprang from that unspiritually-founded "Church of England" and later separated from it

The "Wesleyan Quadrilateral" of

Scripture, Reason, Experience and Tradition

-- as our guiding forces of interpretation -- was NOT something Wesley himself "set down"; he never said "Here is my QUADRILATERAL"

As far as I can tell, a theologian in the early sixties - Albert Outler - defined one day "what Wesley WOULD HAVE SAID" and called it Wesleyan Quadrilateral

The Anglican HOOKER had previously proposed a "three legged stool" of "Scripture, Reason and Tradition" -- and some have said that Hooker's view of REASON actually "included EXPERIENCE" within Reason...

I think there is a subforum at CF with Hooker's guidelines in its title -- a concord of Anglican and Catholic, it seems...

 

[Anto9us]

"to extrude part of their digestive track and let it hang in a rather disgusting looking bag from their mouth"

Unfortunately, metaphorically speaking, this is what WE POSTERS sometimes do here when we post in a non-irenic and unecumenical manner; and I guess that will continue until we no longer "see through a glass darkly"

Thank you , Anastasia - for the part about Greek Orthodox being part of EO -- I am having technical trouble with the QUOTE FEATURE so I couldn't quote your post

But soon these technical details may clear up once I go catch a fish and extract a rare coin from its mouth, and can thus afford to be an "ad-free member"

til then, I do the best I can as a second-class CF-er

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Uh... Oscarr, I think you've got that puppy flipped over on the other side...

Tertullian started off orthodox, and later went Montanist.
He had written stuff on the Trinity while still orthodox, and I believe was first to use Latin term "Trinitas"

As I understand Montanism, it gave a primacy to a person receiving a voice from the Spirit over and above hierarchical authorities and even Scripture.
Certainly WRONG AS ALL GET-OUT, but not technically HAIRY-TICK, imo,

someone above has rightly said above that Montanism can be likened to Pentecostalism in some regards; but to me "Pentecostalism" itself does not seem homogenous;

the UPC certainly believes in the Holy Ghost, but as far as I understand it, does not see the Holy Ghost and the Son and the Father as being one "ousias"; whereas Assembly of God -- definitely PENTECOSTAL, has a normative view of the Trinity as far as I know.

I guess here at CF it is best to let posters from a certain group define that view for us, lest we fall into this deal of "Oh -- you are MISREPRESNTING "X"-ism !!"

But we all have the Bible and Church History to explain to us the other denominations which we ARE NOT.

Here at CF, there is Oriental Orthodox -- and Eastern Orthodox -- forums, but none called Greek Orthodox (which I would assume is EO, but dunno for sure)

Yes Prophecies were one issue, apparently one that touched Tertullian's heart and had him fully adopt when he learned about it. What belief(s) and even the circumstances of what finally got him excommunicated is unknown. From his writings towards the end of his life he pushed the freedom (from Church oversight/review) of prophesy and apparently rejected the idea of anyone remarrying (even widows/widowers) in strict preference for remaining a "virgin" the rest of their life, pushed more fasting (not bad in itself) and pro adding more feast days (also not bad in itself but the Church would probably like to have some unity in that regard - Easter observation was a tough lesson in this).

Those are not the only beliefs gathered under the labeled Montanist and some of them took even those few(of Tertullian's favs) to greater extremes. Example: a prophet is a possessed person, actually and fully possessed by God - as in possessed like the Exorcist only the other side doing it including the salivating uglier aspects of "possession" - with actually God doing it not just the other side. Not clear at all Tertullian would have endorsed that idea and clearly the Church aught to stand against something like that.

BTW Holding to a heresy and even obstinately holding to it to the point of getting excommunicated (if that was what Tertullian did) does not mean the Church is declaring someone not Christian.

The fact Tertullian's followers after his death (a very small group of the larger Montanist) were brought back into communion with the Church in the next century is used to also suggest whatever their (and by association Tertullian's) particular beliefs were, they were not as bad (levels of heresy in severity) as other Montinist.

 

[~Anastasia~]

"to extrude part of their digestive track and let it hang in a rather disgusting looking bag from their mouth"

Unfortunately, metaphorically speaking, this is what WE POSTERS sometimes do here when we post in a non-irenic and unecumenical manner; and I guess that will continue until we no longer "see through a glass darkly"

Thank you , Anastasia - for the part about Greek Orthodox being part of EO -- I am having technical trouble with the QUOTE FEATURE so I couldn't quote your post

But soon these technical details may clear up once I go catch a fish and extract a rare coin from its mouth, and can thus afford to be an "ad-free member"

til then, I do the best I can as a second-class CF-er

You're welcome.

And btw, as far as I'm aware, the ads shouldn't affect your ability to quote?

The quote feature is sometimes wonky for me. It would be easier for me if it worked all the time. It may be my browser. But in the meantime, I always click on "reply" which will be at the bottom of every post, and if I need to break it up, I just add extra quote and /quote tags inside brackets.

We do have a tech forum you can ask if you want to find out? They may have an answer or at least need to be made aware if issues regarding your browser compatibility, or what have you?

 

[Monk Brendan]

Did you hear it from people who knew him?

I never knew him, but from all the factual accounts (not fake news), but real person to person accounts, he was a very holy man

 

[Sammy-San]

I never knew him, but from all the factual accounts (not fake news), but real person to person accounts, he was a very holy man

Bilocation isnt one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in Corinthians.

 

[Monk Brendan]

The issues that Martin Luther had with the Catholic Church was its practice of making people pay to get their relatives out of purgatory. These were called "indulgences". He also objected to the money-making practice of displaying relics and charging visitors a fee for viewing them. Apparently there were so many pieces of the cross of Christ displayed around the different churches and in Rome, that if all the wood was put together, it would have been enough to make all the crosses that Spartacus and his followers were crucified on all along the Appian Way! Also, one big money spinner was a display of Mary's breast milk in a glass container in Rome. The money made from these financed the great Catholic Cathedrals around the Catholic world at the time.

Have you even read Luther's 95 Theses? You're not making a whole lot of sense. Yes, Luther did not like people paying for indulgences. But do you know what an indulgence is? It is a way to get out of the TEMPORAL punishments--those levied by a king or prince--as opposed to punishments from God. At least, that is the way that they started out.

There are prayers for the dead--whether you seem to think them abominable or not. Our prayers for the dead are for them to be able to continue in Theosis--becoming more like God.

As far as the True Cross, it has been proven that if all the pieces that are extant today were brought together, they wouldn't even make up the wood of the cross beam.

But there are hoaxers, yes. Both in the Catholic Church and outside of it. You are Pentecostal. I have heard of many hoaxes in the Pentecostal Churches, faked cures, limbs being lengthened, goiters removed, etc. Don't think for one instant that the RCC has the patent on PHONY.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Bilocation isnt one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in Corinthians.

Are you really going to go through his life with a fine toothed comb for each and every miracle? Just because it isn't in the Bible doesn't mean that a gift is not from God. I've heard of women lifting up cars to get to their trapped baby. Yes, adrenaline, but even that is God given.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Priestly celibacy is another one. It's not a doctrinal matter - but a matter of discipline. Nonetheless, it's Authoritative.

There are a lot of Eastern Catholic priests that are married. My own confessor, Fr. Peter, is married to his childhood sweetheart.

For that matter, there are even married priests in the Roman Church, as in the Episcopalian and Anglican priests that have moved to Rome, continued their ministry, and are married and have children.

 

[Sammy-San]

Are you really going to go through his life with a fine toothed comb for each and every miracle? Just because it isn't in the Bible doesn't mean that a gift is not from God. I've heard of women lifting up cars to get to their trapped baby. Yes, adrenaline, but even that is God given.

Why do stigmatas only occur in the catholic church? No denomination is any more special to God than any other.

 

[Anto9us]

I have HEARD OF stigmatas occurring among Non-Cathies...

 

[Sammy-San]

I have HEARD OF stigmatas occurring among Non-Cathies...

Some people say its a sign of demon possession. Do you disagree?

 

[Monk Brendan]

Why do stigmatas only occur in the catholic church? No denomination is any more special to God than any other.

Stigmata occur in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches because we encourage holiness, a continued growth in the Holy Spirit, a constant Theosis, and so on. I've seen the "holiness," etc. of Protestant people--even Holiness Pentecostals. Never have I seen ONE that I could compare with Padre Pio or St. Francis. When the Protestant churches begin producing authentic stigmatics, then I will argue with you on the subject.

 

[Anto9us]

You're welcome.

Thx again Anastasia -- quote feature WORKED that time -- my browser, my phone, my stove -- all are WONKY at times

 

[Anto9us]

Some people say its a sign of demon possession. Do you disagree?

It MIGHT be, Super, I think Satan can FAKE almost any real "gift" or "sign" whatever

but we can't discredit any valid stigmatas just cuz the Devil can fake it sometimes