The Bible Has Changed (Moved)

[Wolfe]

Well look who it is! The wolf brother!

Aye, t'is good to see ye well.

 

[Wolf_Says]

Aye, t'is good to see ye well.

When did you become irish?

 

[Wolfe]

When did you become irish?

The moment my ancestors moved to America.

Also the moment I discovered Ireland is a beautiful, Godly country.
I may move there someday.

 

[JoeP222w]

Isaiah 11:6 "And the lion shall lay down with the lamb" is now "and the wolf shall dwell with the lamb."

Translation you are referring to that says "lion" and translation that says "wolf"? Original text?

If your point is that there are inaccurate translations, yes, you are correct. If you are saying that this violates the inerrancy/infallibility of scripture, I don't agree. The doctrine of Inerrancy is not based on the translations.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

From the Targum Isaiah. The pre-Christian Aramaic translation and the 225 BC, Septuagint.

Targum Isaiah 11:6 In the days of the Messiah of Israel peace shall be multiplied in the earth. The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall dwell with the kid ; and the calf, and the lion, and the fatling together ; and a little sucking child shall be leading them.
LXX Isaiah 11:6 And the wolf shall feed with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the young calf and bull and lion shall feed together; and a little child shall lead them. ​

And they're worried about whether it says "wolf" or "lion." Who cares? IF the Targum says what it says in the first phrase, but the LXX leaves it out, then no wonder I keep hearing Jewish folks deny Jesus as Messiah. There's the real problem; and whether the Bible translators use one predator or another to render the text at hand is a minor issue. I'm sure a wolf will eat a lamb just as readily as a lion would.

I'm just sayin'

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[redleghunter]

Isaiah 11:6 "And the lion shall lay down with the lamb" is now "and the wolf shall dwell with the lamb."

Lion: layish

Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)

Wolf: zĕ'eb

Genesis Chapter 1 (KJV)

 

[redleghunter]

Wish I could track down the quote, perhaps from a book on the reformation, but the wolves I was warned about are the priesthood of the the RCC and an image of the Orthodox church ones would have them sleeping. apologies @Wolfe

Whaaa?

So priests are laying down with lambs in Isaiah 11? This is so confusing.

 

[victorinus]

am I missing the point?

Or is there one?

the point is you can't trust all translations
-
the lion is God
-and-
we are part of the Lamb

 

[ToBeLoved]

Isaiah 11:6 "And the lion shall lay down with the lamb" is now "and the wolf shall dwell with the lamb."

Hmmm..

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

If the original language (Hebrew or Greek) says "lion", then the translator has decided to change the text to suit his own interpretation. I think that using "lion" is more powerful, because of the contrast between the two animals. The lion is "the king of the beast" and depicts power, ferocity and dignity that is quite the opposite of the lamb which depicts helplessness and vulnerability. The verse juxtaposes the two to show the peacefulness within the animal world where even enemies can be at peace with one another when Jesus is reigning over the world. Using the wolf is not as powerful and so the contrast is not so prominent.

 

[Anguspure]

Excuse me.....exactly how are priests from the Catholic Church wolves....?

Care to elaborate on this one??

As I can't find the text I can't speak for the author but from my memory it was along the lines of wolves in sheeps clothing, those who purport to be stand for Jesus Christ but are really on another agenda.

 

[Wolf_Says]

As I can't find the text I can't speak for the author but from my memory it was along the lines of wolves in sheeps clothing, those who purport to be stand for Jesus Christ but are really on another agenda.

Well, I guess my question is, do you also believe this statement?

And if so, why?

 

[Anguspure]

Whaaa?

So priests are laying down with lambs in Isaiah 11? This is so confusing.

This is the subject of another recent thread.

 

[Anguspure]

Well, I guess my question is, do you also believe this statement?

And if so, why?

In so far as wolves are portrayed as cunning and ravenous creatures that eat lambs for breakfast while pretending to be a friend (such is the nature of the fable), yes I do.

I think that there is a level of corruption in any hierarchical structure on the planet, and that anyone or group that does not follow Jesus' model for leadership is in fact following the model of another.

“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. The greatest among you will be your servant. For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. (Matthew 23)

Jesus said to them, “The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves. For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves. (Luke 22)

To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away. (1 Peter 5)

I think Jesus also alludes to this sort of hierarchical problem by comparing the kingdom to a tree that grows up and the birds coming to sit in its branches.

In Ezekial there is reference to the rams in a flock that are butting their heads against the weaker sheep and so need to be kicked out. So it is a kingdom problem not just one limited to the RC or Orthodox traditions.

The RCC draws fire in this respect because it is the biggest "Christian" institution on the planet and the reformers had a right real fight with the hierarchy, however I don't see any evidence that they corrected the problem, and certainly the RCC has not changed.

 

[Wolf_Says]

In so far as wolves are portrayed as cunning and ravenous creatures that eat lambs for breakfast while pretending to be a friend (such is the nature of the fable), yes I do.

Well that certainly is a problem.

A grand majority of priests are good people, who truly love Jesus and serve Him.

Yes, there have been bad or terrible priests who have slipped into the ranks, just as there are bad politicians, policemen, doctors, what have you.

But to go and claim that the ENTIRE priesthood is the wolves is ridiculous.

 

[Rick Otto]

Isaiah 11:6 "And the lion shall lay down with the lamb" is now "and the wolf shall dwell with the lamb."

Heard about it and checked it out at least a year ago. Good luck having anyone treat you decently in a conversation about it.
And I know there is more...

 

[Rick Otto]

I have an oldish Bible, I'm going to look this up, just to settle everyone.

That doesn't address the "newish" cause of oldish bibles not saying lion instead of wolf.

 

[Rick Otto]

The point is that wolves are cool, I think?

cute.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Heard about it and checked it out at least a year ago. Good luck having anyone treat you decently in a conversation about it.
And I know there is more...

That is why I am out. Have fun.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Wish I could track down the quote, perhaps from a book on the reformation, but the wolves I was warned about are the priesthood of the the RCC and an image of the Orthodox church ones would have them sleeping. apologies

Is this really necessary? Neither the Catholic Churches, nor the Orthodox have ever been lions, wolves, or any other animal that would seek to destroy you. All are Christians, and all seek the gory of God