Once Saved Always Saved - Why is it so hard?

[Bible Highlighter]

Like you admit you do Jason i commit sin for I am not perfect in the flesh. So we are both the same in Thi regard.
However, we are here to discuss christian theology, not each others personal victories or faliures.

I can tell you, scripturally speaking, according to our different views on the gospel, you would be a bigger sinner than me, according to the scriptural message Tha is

Yes, we are to restore a brother back to the faith if they are at fault or in some kind of sin (Galatians 6:1-2). I am not saying that is not possible that Christians cannot stumble. The point is that we do not stay down or seek to think we will always sin at some point in the future as if it was some written declaration by us (When Jesus told us to sin no more). The point is that God calls believers to overcome their sins or to crucifiy the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24).


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[stuart lawrence]

Yes, we are to restore a brother back to the faith if they are at fault or in some kind of sin (Galatians 6:1-2). I am not saying that is not possible that Christians cannot stumble. The point is that we do not stay down or seek to think we will always sin at some point in the future as if it was some written declaration by us (When Jesus told us to sin no more). The point is that God calls believers to overcome their sins or to crucifiy the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24).


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Just think if those Pharisees for a moment.
They were highly intelligent people, they dressed well, went to all the religious meetings, knew the literal words of the then scriptures inside out, did good deeds, earnestly preached you must obey the law. They would not have gotten drunk, used foul language or had extra marital affairs.
But at the same Tim they didn't know God.

And though they appeared so very righteous on the outside, they were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean on the inside.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, you said the verses referred to Non applicable OT law.
But Paul was speaking of new christians being evident sinners.
You cannot be an evident sinner concerning non applicable law.

You sure you want to quote Gal5:19-21?

As you live under a law of righteousness sin shall be your master, according to Paul

There is sin in the New Covenant. It is breaking the Commands given to us in the New Covenant.

However, Paul also says if we be circumcised, Christ shall profit us nothing (Galatians 5:2). Why? Circumcison was once a requirement as a seal or mark in showing that one was right with God under the Old Testament or Old Covenant. This means that this is a law that if we cannot go back to and obey, otherwise it can effect our salvation (i.e. Christ shall not profit us if we seek to be circumcised like in the OT).

Sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).
Sin cannot exist without some kind of Law.
So there has to be law that Christians can break in order for them to sin.

That is the list we see in Galatians 5:19-21. They are breaking certain Commands in God's New Covenant that will cause one to not inherit the Kingdom of God.

But Galatians 5:22-23 says this,

22 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
(Galatians 5:22-23).

Can one break God's laws and also have the fruits of the Spirit (of which there is no law)? Jesus says you cannot serve two masters. For your eye is full of darkness than the entire body is in darkness. Also there is no law that is against having the fruits of the Spirit. Do you have the fruits of the Spirit (of which there is no Law that can condemn a person because they are walking righteously)?


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[stuart lawrence]

Yes, we are to restore a brother back to the faith if they are at fault or in some kind of sin (Galatians 6:1-2). I am not saying that is not possible that Christians cannot stumble. The point is that we do not stay down or seek to think we will always sin at some point in the future as if it was some written declaration by us (When Jesus told us to sin no more). The point is that God calls believers to overcome their sins or to crucifiy the affections and lusts (Galatians 5:24).


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The WAy to overcome sin is to die to a law of righteousness, according to the person who wrote half the books of the NT

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Just think if those Pharisees for a moment.
They were highly intelligent people, they dressed well, went to all the religious meetings, knew the literal words of the then scriptures inside out, did good deeds, earnestly preached you must obey the law. They would not have gotten drunk, used foul language or had extra marital affairs.
But at the same Tim they didn't know God.

And though they appeared so very righteous on the outside, they were full of wickedness, hypocrisy and everything unclean on the inside.

That is the point. Today, people are no different than the Pharisees. They think they can act just like them by doing good and evil. Yet, Jesus said that our righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees otherwise we will not be able to enter into the Kingdom.


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[stuart lawrence]

There is sin in the New Covenant. It is breaking the Commands given to us in the New Covenant.

However, Paul is says if we be circumcised, Christ shall profit us nothing. Why? Circumcison was once a requirement as a seal or make in showing that one was right with God under the Old Testament or Old Covenant. This means that this is a law that if we cannot go back to and obey, otherwise it can effect our salvation (i.e. Christ shall not profit us if we seek to be circumcised like in the OT).

Sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4).
Sin cannot exist without some kind of Law.
So there has to be law that Christians can break in order for them to sin.

That is the list we see in Galatians 5:19-21. They are the breaking of certain Commands in God's New Covenant that will cause one to not inherit the Kingdom of God.

But Galatians 5:22-23 says this,

22 "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
(Galatians 5:22-23).

Can one break God's laws and also have the fruits of the Spirit (of which there is no law)? Jesus says you cannot serve two masters. For your eye is full of darkness than the entire body is in darkness.


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Do you believe you have the fruits of the spirit?
You commit sin!

The law itself exists, the law of righteousness has been removed.
Thou shalt not covet, bear false witness, steal etc are on your heart, they remain unshakeable, but the christian has a saviour from their sin

 

[stuart lawrence]

That is the point. Today, people are no different than the Pharisees. They think they can act just like them by doing good and evil. Yet, Jesus said that our righteousness must exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees otherwise we will not be able to enter into the Kingdom.


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Glad you quoted our righteousness must exceed the Pharisees
Do you think you obey the letter better than they did?

The Pharisees neglected the love of God, and showed no love to their fellow men, for they did not practice what they preached

The result of earnestly hinging everything on a strict law of righteousness

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Glad you quoted our righteousness must exceed the Pharisees
Do you think you obey the letter better than they did?

The Pharisees neglected the love of God, and showed no love to their fellow men, for they did not practice what they preached

The result of earnestly hinging everything on a strict law of righteousness

The point is that Jesus was angry with the Pharisees for their hypocritical behavior. He did not save them despite them doing evil. Why do you think it is any different now?


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[Bible Highlighter]

Glad you quoted our righteousness must exceed the Pharisees
Do you think you obey the letter better than they did?

The Pharisees neglected the love of God, and showed no love to their fellow men, for they did not practice what they preached

The result of earnestly hinging everything on a strict law of righteousness

The Pharisees did not obey God's Word or have faith in the Lord. That was the problem.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Do you believe you have the fruits of the spirit?
You commit sin!

The law itself exists, the law of righteousness has been removed.
Thou shalt not covet, bear false witness, steal etc are on your heart, they remain unshakeable, but the christian has a saviour from their sin

So you believe that even if you do sin, you are saved, right?
How is that different than the Pharisees who did good and evil?


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[stuart lawrence]

The point is that Jesus was angry with the Pharisees for their hypocritical behavior. He did not save them despite them doing evil. Why do you think it is any different now?


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The point us Jesus hated their hypocrisy. They did not practice what they demanded of the people and crushed them with impossible demands

A bit like someone today who insists if you love Jesus you will obey his literal commands, whilst not even trying to obey them all yourself

 

[stuart lawrence]

So you believe that even if you do sin, you are saved, right?
How is that different than the Pharisees who did good and evil?


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Well you believe you can sin and be saved dont you Jason

Why should there be one rule for you and a different rule fir everyone else?

 

[stuart lawrence]

So you believe that even if you do sin, you are saved, right?
How is that different than the Pharisees who did good and evil?


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This is the acid test.
The born again christian cannot happily sin without conscience. They will have remorse at sin.
The person who I not born again will not

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The point us Jesus gated their hypocrisy. They did not practice what they demanded of the people and crushed them with impossible demands

A bit like someone today who insists if you love Jesus you will obey his literal commands, whilst not even trying to obey the all yourself

The point is that they were not saved because of their hypocrisy. Jesus says they did not hear his Words because they did not do obey God. If Jesus saved hypocrites in the body of Christ today, then He would have to apologize to the Pharisees who were hypocrites.

That's the point.

Yes, selling all that I have and giving into the poor is one of the hardest commands for most Christians to accept (Including myself). But I am seeking to find ways so as to obey this Command in the right timing because I love God. But it must also be understood that believers also did own their own homes, though. For some it is a balance in forsaking things. But do I want to obey Jesus in regards to this Command in Matthew 19 to be absolutely radical for Jesus? Yes. In the proper time and by His leading (of course). Yes. For Jesus says, if you love me, keep my Commandments. For I know I can only do something like that by His power.


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[Bible Highlighter]

This is the acid test.
The born again christian cannot happily sin without conscience. They will have remorse at sin.
The person who I not born again will not

Can a husband keep cheating on his wife on occasion (or at least once every ten years) as long as he feels bad about it and as long as he says he is sorry? No. The fact that the husband admits he will sin at some future date means that he is not truly remorseful over his sin. People who truly are remorseful over their sin will repent. This means confessing and forsaking sin (Proverbs 28:13). Forsaking sin means that you are running away from sin's direction and your are not planning to sin again (Note: This would not be the type of thinking that you cannot help but to sin again).


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[stuart lawrence]

The point is that they were not saved because of their hypocrisy. Jesus says they did not hear his Words because they did not do obey God. If Jesus saved hypocrites in the body of Christ today, then He would have to apologize to the Pharisees who were hypocrites.

That's the point.

Yes, selling all that I have and giving into the poor is one of the hardest commands for most Christians to accept (Including myself). But I am seeking to find ways so as to obey this Command in the right timing because I love God. But it must also be understood that believers also did own their own homes, though. For some it is a balance in forsaking things. But do I want to obey Jesus in regards to this Command in Matthew 19 to be absolutely radical for Jesus? Yes. In the proper time and by His leading (of course). Yes. For Jesus says, if you love me, keep my Commandments. For I know I can only do something like that by His power.


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The Pharisees ignored the love, mercy and compassion of God, as does everyone who believes that will attain heaven by their own personal goodness under the law.
They neglected the love of God and showed no love to their fellow man.
They loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
It was cold, hard, hypocritical religion. Hence, they did not know God

 

[stuart lawrence]

Can a husband keep cheating on his wife on occasion (or at least once every ten years) as long as he feels bad about it and as long as he says he is sorry? No. The fact that the husband admits he will sin at some future date means that he is not truly remorseful over his sin. People who truly are remorseful over their sin will repent. This means confessing and forsaking sin (Proverbs 28:13). Forsaking sin means that you are running away from sin's direction and your are not planning to sin again (i.e. by thinking that you cannot help but to sin again).


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A husband can cheat on hus wife without actually sleeping with another woman.

You don't understand the standard the law sets, which us troubling. If it is in your heart and on your mind, why do you not understand the standard set?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Pharisees ignored the love, mercy and compassion of God, as does everyone who believes that will attain heaven by their own personal goodness under the law.
They neglected the love of God and showed no love to their fellow man.
They loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
It was cold, hard, hypocritical religion. Hence, they did not know God

Yet, you are saying that we are: "found as sinners" (Galatians 2:17) and we must be willing to admit we are always sinners (1 John 1:8), though. What is the bench mark of difference here?


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[Bible Highlighter]

A husband can cheat on hus wife without actually sleeping with another woman.

You don't understand the standard the law sets, which us troubling. If it is in your heart and on your mind, why do you not understand the standard set?

Sigh. I was the one who quoted Matthew 5:28-30 to you multiple times within this thread to prove to you that you cannot sin and still be saved. Obviously you just did not simply read what I had written.


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[Bible Highlighter]

Seeing you are not really reading what I always write, I think it is best we agree to disagree and move on.

In any event, may God bless you.
And please be well.


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