Why the Catholic Church changes the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday

[BobRyan]

Absolutely nothing in the Catechism says anyone has to refrain from mowing the lawn on Saturday.

Which was not the point in the post

The point in the "good news" posts was that your own church affirms all TEN of the TEN Commandments as given to mankind and not "just jews".

of course the "bad news" was also listed - dealing with the bend-and-wrench efforts

So that was "the good news" --

However -- the Mark 7:6-13 news is this --


Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of The Sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish Sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping The Sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

2190 The Sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.

=========

Since even by their standards - they did not add a "Christian Sabbath" but rather they --> fulfilled the "Jewish Sabbath" with the man-made-tradition of Sunday-worship -- then your "Jewish Sabbath" is fulfilled only by Sunday worship... why then do you keep your fulfilled-by-Sunday-worship Jewish-Sabbath back on the actual Bible Sabbath - ,Saturday, still, since that is no longer the fulfillment of what your Church calls the "Jewish Sabbath" ??

 

[Bob S]

One thing for sure there is nothing in the New Testament demanding the keeping of days. No matter what Catholics, SDAs or Messianics tell us, the Bible is the last word and there is no indication that any day was demanded to be set aside as being Holy.

 

[Meowzltov]

Which was not the point in the post

The point in the "good news" posts was that your own church affirms all TEN of the TEN Commandments as given to mankind and not "just jews".

The Catholic Church teaches us to obey the ten commandments, but let's not oversimplify it. There is a big red asterisk next to the Sabbath commandment. It is not at all the same as what Jews were required to do, neither the same day, nor is it specifically the same group of prohibitions (i.e. Jews are not allowed to kindle a flame or cook, Catholics turn on our stoves and cook great meals).

 

[BobRyan]

The Catholic Church teaches us to obey the ten commandments,

They don't say "NINE" --- they say "TEN" are in the moral law of God for all mankind.

Which is why I include them in the list of pro-Ten Commandment pro-Sunday groups in my sig.

There is a big red asterisk next to the Sabbath commandment.

Agreed. I don't agree with their efforts to bend-wrench the Sabbath Commandment even though they do not delete it - (so as to keep TEN) -- they do that bend-wrench thing.

It is not at all the same as what Jews were required to do, neither the same day, nor is it specifically the same group of prohibitions (i.e. Jews are not allowed to kindle a flame or cook, Catholics turn on our stoves and cook great meals).

They can cook all day long on Sunday and it will be just fine with me as well. That is one more place where we agree.

============= so then

That just leaves the Mark 7:6-13 problem.




Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of The Sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish Sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping The Sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

2190 The Sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.

=========

Since even by their standards - they did not add a "Christian Sabbath" but rather they --> fulfilled the "Jewish Sabbath" with the man-made-tradition of Sunday-worship -- then your "Jewish Sabbath" is fulfilled only by Sunday worship... why then do you keep your fulfilled-by-Sunday-worship Jewish-Sabbath back on the actual Bible Sabbath - ,Saturday, still, since that is no longer the fulfillment of what your Church calls the "Jewish Sabbath" ??

 

[BobRyan]

One thing for sure there is nothing in the New Testament demanding the keeping of days. No matter what Catholics, SDAs or Messianics tell us, the Bible is the last word and there is no indication that any day was demanded to be set aside as being Holy.

hmmm 'in that case - there is also nothing in the new testament say "Do no take God's name in vain" ' ... good thing that means absolutely nothing...

 

[Meowzltov]

They can cook all day long on Sunday and it will be just fine with me as well. That is one more place where we agree.

If you are lighting a fire on your stove on Shabbat, you are not following Torah in it's explanation of Sabbath keeping. It doesn't bother me that Catholics do this, because they only claim to be keeping the solemnity of the Sabbath, not the Sabbath itself But you make the claim that you are a Sabbath keeper. Hmmmmm.

 

[Bob S]

hmmm 'in that case - there is also nothing in the new testament say "Do no take God's name in vain" ' ... good thing that means absolutely nothing...

A great lesson for you would be that morality is forever, ritual law is transitory.

 

[BobRyan]

A great lesson for you would be that morality is forever, ritual law is transitory.

speaking of all eternity after the cross in the New Earth God says "From SABBATh to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before me to worship"

However you say "on no - not so" -- you are free to contradict if you wish. Let each one choose for themselves.

 

[BobRyan]

If you are lighting a fire on your stove on Shabbat, you are not following Torah in it's explanation of Sabbath keeping. .

I do not "kindle a fire" and I do not "gather wood" on Sabbath.

Bible details matter.

If you have ever watched a program about survival in the wild you will notice that the effort to kindle a fire is huge. Even so - we do our cooking on Friday for Sabbath.

And as I said before - I have not problem with the fact that Catholics may choose to cook all day long on Sunday.

I also do not complain about them agreeing that all TEN of the TEN Commandments remain as the moral law of God binding on all - even Christians.

What I object to is the violation of the Mark 7:6-13 teaching of Christ.

Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of The Sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish Sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping The Sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

2190 The Sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.

=========

Since even by their standards - they did not add a "Christian Sabbath" but rather they --> fulfilled the "Jewish Sabbath" with the man-made-tradition of Sunday-worship -- then your "Jewish Sabbath" is fulfilled only by Sunday worship... why then do you keep your fulfilled-by-Sunday-worship Jewish-Sabbath back on the actual Bible Sabbath - ,Saturday, still, since that is no longer the fulfillment of what your Church calls the "Jewish Sabbath" ??

 

[Bob S]

speaking of all eternity after the cross in the New Earth God says "From SABBATh to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before me to worship"

“And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

However you say "on no - not so" -- you are free to contradict if you wish. Let each one choose for themselves.

Isaiah either knew something no other Bible writer has revealed or he was referring to something other than the Heaven we are bound for. Then, of course, there is the fact that Paul tells us the Sabbath was a shadow and no one not even you would worship a shadow. So, you are believing a concocted myth.

 

[Meowzltov]

hmmm 'in that case - there is also nothing in the new testament say "Do no take God's name in vain" ' ... good thing that means absolutely nothing...

The New Testament says the first law is to Love God With All Your Heart. Is spuriously abusing the name of God an act of love?

 

[Meowzltov]

I do not "kindle a fire"

Turning on your stove is kindling a flame. You don't turn on your stove? It may have been more work in the past, but even the easier way today is still forbidden to Jews.

kindle

[kin-dl]

verb (used with object), kindled, kindling.
1.
to start (a fire); cause (a flame, blaze, etc.) to begin burning.

 

[BobRyan]

If you are lighting a fire on your stove on Shabbat, .

There is no indication that Moses even knew about "turning a knob to turn on your stove" nor is it clear that Webster was trying to translate what Moses wrote.

but since you bring up the idea of "making stuff up" here is another one people make up.

"4) Fridge. The most important light is the one in the refrigerator and/or freezer. Unscrew the light bulb inside, so that it is off during the whole Shabbat. Otherwise, opening the fridge will be just like turning on a light, which is not permitted on Shabbat"

The idea being that the electricity to run the Fridge is not a problem - but having the light come on when you open the door - well that is a problem.

All that man-made-tradition out-the-window

 

[BobRyan]

The New Testament says the first law is to Love God With All Your Heart. Is spuriously abusing the name of God an act of love?

Certainly we can agree that abusing God's name is not loving -toward God just like ignoring God's commandments is not loving towards God as John points out in 1 John 5:2-3 and in John 14:15 and as we see in Exodus 20:6

Which is why those who argue for all TEN of the TEN Commandments the way the RCC does - are so helpful in making that case.

But "there are those" who would argue that just because it is not loving to ignore God's commandments - is not the same thing as God endorsing the Sabbath Commandment in the NT with the same sincerity as He did in the OT. That same sort of "parsing" would equally oust the command against taking God's name in vain.

BUT - if you are in fact willing to include such indirect reference as indicative as "endorsement" in the NT of a command never mentioned explicitly in the NT - such as "Do not take God's name in vain" , then all the MORE endorsement for the Sabbath mentioned numerous times in the NT and quoted several times besides.

 

[BobRyan]

“And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”


Isaiah either knew something no other Bible writer has revealed or he was referring to something other than the Heaven we are bound for. Then, of course, there is the fact that Paul tells us the Sabbath was a shadow and no one not even you would worship a shadow. So, you are believing a concocted myth.

In Isaiah 66 he says he is speaking of the New Heavens and New Earth and if you were ever an SDA you know that the wicked are reduced to ashes at the end of the Rev 20 event which is then followed by the Revelation 21 New Earth.

The point remains.

Though as was much expected - your post appears to have nothing at all to do with the subject of this thread.

 

[BobRyan]

Absolutely nothing in the Catechism says anyone has to refrain from mowing the lawn on Saturday.

And since they can cook all day long on Sunday as well - I assume they can mow their lawn all day long on Sunday.. And I have no problem with them treating Sunday that way. I never complained about that.

 

[Bob S]

In Isaiah 66 he says he is speaking of the New Heavens and New Earth and if you were ever an SDA you know that the wicked are reduced to ashes at the end of the Rev 20 event which is then followed by the Revelation 21 New Earth.

Exactly my point if you would only read my posts. If the wicked are dust then why did Isaiah write that His chosen will walk around dead bodies with live worms eating their flesh?

The point remains.

Though as was much expected - your post appears to have nothing at all to do with the subject of this thread.

Sorry my friend, you were the one in post#428 that mentioned Is 66. If you cannot remember what you wrote yesterday that was off topic, I would stop accusing others of doing so.

 

[Meowzltov]

There is no indication that Moses even knew about "turning a knob to turn on your stove" nor is it clear that Webster was trying to translate what Moses wrote.

but since you bring up the idea of "making stuff up" here is another one people make up.

"4) Fridge. The most important light is the one in the refrigerator and/or freezer. Unscrew the light bulb inside, so that it is off during the whole Shabbat. Otherwise, opening the fridge will be just like turning on a light, which is not permitted on Shabbat"

The idea being that the electricity to run the Fridge is not a problem - but having the light come on when you open the door - well that is a problem.

All that man-made-tradition out-the-window

God knew that some day kindling a fire would require a mere turning of a knob, but he did not say "Though shalt not kindle a flame on the sabbath unless it does not require real effort." Instead he said if anyone questions what the judges (rabbis) rule, to take them outside the camp and kill them. So what are you doing questioning and kindling a flame by turning on your stove?

The thing about the refrigerator light comes from the rabbinical ruling by some rabbinical courts that electrical charges are fire, thus turning on a circuit is kindling a flame. That makes doing anything to turn on a light kindling a flame, including opening a refrigerator door if the light has not been unscrewed.

Now only SOME rabbinical courts have ruled that electricity is fire, thus you do what YOUR rabbinical authorities rule. When I was Orthodox I unscrewed my refrigerator light. Now I attend a Reform Synagogue (although I am inspired by Conservative halakhah) and I do not worry about electricity.

 

[Meowzltov]

Which is why those who argue for all TEN of the TEN Commandments the way the RCC does - are so helpful in making that case.

But a Gentile can mow the lawn on Saturday and still love God. That's the point. It's not in the same category as blaspheming God's name.

 

[BobRyan]

But a Gentile can mow the lawn on Saturday and still love God. That's the point. It's not in the same category as blaspheming God's name.

They are both in the Ten Commandments. He who breaks one breaks them all. "To him that knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin" - James 4:17

A lot of protestants are going to admit that they cannot break the commandment about not bowing down before images in worship and promising to serve those they represent -- without sinning. That is just a fact.

There is nothing new in all of that.

the Commandment is "do not take God's name in vain" - as even Any Stanley points out - to go around proclaiming that God "told you" not to pay any attention to one of His TEN Commandments is "taking God's name in vain"