Why the Catholic Church changes the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

In my continuous study of the New Testament I am more convinced that God is concerned with all mankind alike. Israel had its day. Israel blew it Open Heart. God is treating us all alike. "so God WAS faithful to unfaithful Israel" Each of us is responsible for our own salvation. Salvation is offered to a Jew just as it is for me. So, I have come to the conclusion that You have a espoused a false hope about God once again gathering a nation of people into the promised land. Jews who come to Christ are grafted into the tree just as Gentiles are.

Amen!

Like Paul says in Galatians and in many other places, he first had to become a "Gentile" in order to become a 'son' himself.

 

[Bob S]

Who cares?

I care. How really is your care for others? Jn 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I care. How really is your care for others? Jn 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Off topic.

 

[Bob S]

Off topic.

Off topic???? Is it off topic because you cannot stand to hear it? I believe loving as Jesus asks should be the topic of every Christian.

 

[Meowzltov]

In my continuous study of the New Testament I am more convinced that God is concerned with all mankind alike. Israel had its day. Israel blew it

I like the way my mom explains it. She loves all her six kids equally and wants all of them to be the very best they can be. But we are not clones of each other. We have different gifts and talents and callings. One son has an IQ in the genius range and works on satellites. Another son has a more modest above average IQ and runs his own business as a plumber. One son makes an incredible amount of money and gives very generously to charity. The last son basically runs charities and lives on a pittance. She does NOT treat all her children alike BECAUSE WE ARE NOT ALL ALIKE. She would be a dreadful mother if she treated us all alike! And so with God.

 

[Meowzltov]

Off topic???? Is it off topic because you cannot stand to hear it? I believe loving as Jesus asks should be the topic of every Christian.

I didn't check to see what the topic was, but I can tell you this much: "Loving as Jesus asks" is NOT the topic of every thread.

 

[Meowzltov]

I keep the law of love out of love for HaShem. Would you say that God loves me less or that I am less worthy because I am not Torah observant. In you opinion can a person who does not believe Torah is the covenant man should observe have eternal life. I am not asking that because I want you to stand in judgment of anyone, I ask only how you feel about it.

Scripture says that "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." I take that as proof positive that God loves us whether or not we keep his commandments.

Bob, I believe the Torah was given to Israel, not to the world. "And God said to Moses, Speak to the Children of Israel..." And so there are 613 commandments given to Israel. A very, very few of them are actually universal (meaning they apply to everyone -- you'll see these in the NT, when Paul talks to Gentiles), but the overwhelming number are really only intended for Jews. Now, if a Gentile wants to voluntarily do them simply out of love for Hashem, then bless their heart. I think good things will come from that. But I don't think a Gentile is under any obligation to refrain from bacon or mowing the lawn on Saturday, etc.

On the other hand, it is a different matter with the universal commandments, like don't steal, don't murder, etc. To break these is sin. Sometimes the sin is UNTO DEATH, meaning spiritual death -- our very salvation can be lost unless we confess and repent, turning back again to God's ways.

1 John is a virtual storehouse of verses on keeping God's commands. I think there are something like six different ones and they are all good. My favorite is this one:
"Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person." 1 John 2:4

 

[Meowzltov]

Who cares?

I wasn't replying to you. I was replying to someone else, who indeed cares. Why did you feel the need to make this nasty reply?

 

[Bob S]

I didn't check to see what the topic was, but I can tell you this much: "Loving as Jesus asks" is NOT the topic of every thread.

I did go off topic and you should realize the reason why. I guess we could just allow anyone to say anything just to keep on the topic. I didn't choose to do that. i do not do it to change the subject.

 

[Bob S]

Scripture says that "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." I take that as proof positive that God loves us whether or not we keep his commandments.

The question was does He love me less because I am not observant.

Bob, I believe the Torah was given to Israel, not to the world. "And God said to Moses, Speak to the Children of Israel..." And so there are 613 commandments given to Israel. A very, very few of them are actually universal (meaning they apply to everyone -- you'll see these in the NT, when Paul talks to Gentiles), but the overwhelming number are really only intended for Jews. Now, if a Gentile wants to voluntarily do them simply out of love for Hashem, then bless their heart. I think good things will come from that. But I don't think a Gentile is under any obligation to refrain from bacon or mowing the lawn on Saturday, etc.

I truly believe that there are no such thing as the 613 laws. They were history. When England owned what is now our country there were laws that we do not now have. Do you think England would think more of me if I kept the imposed laws that are no longer valid? On the other hand we do have laws that mirror the laws England had on the books. The same for the old covenant. Anything dealing with morality in the old is also in the new.

On the other hand, it is a different matter with the universal commandments, like don't steal, don't murder, etc. To break these is sin. Sometimes the sin is UNTO DEATH, meaning spiritual death -- our very salvation can be lost unless we confess and repent, turning back again to God's ways.

Amen! I fully agree.

1 John is a virtual storehouse of verses on keeping God's commands. I think there are something like six different ones and they are all good. My favorite is this one:
"Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person." 1 John 2:4

I love 1JN. John not only tells us to keep the commandments, he goes on and tell us what the commandments are that he says to keep. You see it at the bottom of everyone of my posts. We know we are right with God when we do as John wrote.

 

[BobRyan]

I did go off topic and you should realize the reason why. I guess we could just allow anyone to say anything just to keep on the topic. I didn't choose to do that. i do not do it to change the subject.

so then - let's keep with the CF forum rules and stay with the actual topic.

The historic evidence for the attempt to change one of the Commandments - the Sabbath Commandment.

An example of on-topic historic documented statements

==============================
we have Catholic Documents -- admitting that in the Bible the term "Lord's Day" refers to the Bible Sabbath - the 7th Day and not week-day-1.

The argument is not that the term "Lord's Day" does not exist in the Bible -- rather the argument is that the NT first century writers never say it is week-day-1 even though numerous times in the NT text - week-day-1 is mentioned.

But the Bible calls the 7th day the "Holy Day of the LORD" and calls it Sabbath in BOTH the OT AND the NT

here is another Catholic document that mentions the "Lord's Day"

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================

and still another Catholic document


======================================
Convert's Catechism
Full text of "The convert's catechism of Catholic doctrine"

3. The Third Commandment.

Q. What is the Third Commandment?

A. The Third Commandment is: Remember

that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.

---------------------------50

Q. Which is the Sabbath day ?

A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Satur-
day ?

A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday be-
cause the Catholic Church, in the Council of
Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity
from Saturday to Sunday.

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute
Sunday for Saturday?

A. The Church substituted Sunday for Satur-
day, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sun-
day, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apos-
tles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute
Sunday for Saturday?

A. The Church substituted Sunday for Satur-
day by the plenitude of that divine power which
Jesus Christ bestowed upon her.

Q. What does the Third Commandment com-
mand?

A. The Third Commandment commands us to
sanctify Sunday as the Lord's Day.

--------------------------===================================================



Indeed - Acts 20 says that a one-time event happened on week-day-1 (again not calling it "the Lord's Day" so as not to confuse the reader). The "excuse"/reason given for this one-time event was that Paul was leaving the next day -- according to the text itself.


==================

meanwhile - here is the actual Bible.

"the Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28.
Is 58:13 - the Sabbath "is the Holy Day of the LORD"
"The seventh day is the Sabbath of LORD thy God" Ex 20:10

Indeed - in Rev 1 there is no "week day 1 is the Lord's Day"... But the NT reader does have these texts to guide them.

 

[Meowzltov]

The question was does He love me less because I am not observant.

You could go around torturing, sodomizing, and killing little five year old boys, and Jesus still loves you and died for you. So what? It has nothing to do with whether or not he wants you to obey him. If you love him, you will obey. If you don't obey, it means you don't really love him. And if you don't really love him, are you really saved?

 

[Meowzltov]

I truly believe that there are no such thing as the 613 laws. They were history. When England owned what is now our country there were laws that we do not now have. Do you think England would think more of me if I kept the imposed laws that are no longer valid? On the other hand we do have laws that mirror the laws England had on the books. The same for the old covenant. Anything dealing with morality in the old is also in the new.

There are laws that are "moral laws" that Christians don't keep. For example, don't sleep with a menstruating wife. It's sandwiched in there right between other abominations such as incest and idolatry.

For Jews, a law is a law. No where in Torah does it compartmentalize the laws: "this is a moral law, but that is a ceremonial law..." We don't have that luxery. We are simply called by law to obey the 613.

 

[Bob S]

There are laws that are "moral laws" that Christians don't keep. For example, don't sleep with a menstruating wife. It's sandwiched in there right between other abominations such as incest and idolatry.

For Jews, a law is a law. No where in Torah does it compartmentalize the laws: "this is a moral law, but that is a ceremonial law..." We don't have that luxery. We are simply called by law to obey the 613.

Hi Open Heart, I pray that your heart is open, open to the real truth. All laws are moral, some of the 613 dealt with how and when the Israelites did certain rituals. Some dealt with how we treat our fellow man. How we treat our fellow man are called laws dealing with morality. You may not see those terms in OC scripture, but if you will open your heart you will agree. Either you or SAAN has said there are only about 200 laws that could possibly be kept out of the 613. I am sure that if we were to count all the words that deal with how we treat our fellow man it would be close to all two hundred which include all the laws concerning the observance of days.

Speaking of the sandwiched law That is a law dealing with our fellow women. It is absolutely dealing with morality.

Have a blessed Christmas

 

[BobRyan]

You could go around torturing, sodomizing, and killing little five year old boys, and Jesus still loves you and died for you. So what? It has nothing to do with whether or not he wants you to obey him. If you love him, you will obey. If you don't obey, it means you don't really love him. And if you don't really love him, are you really saved?

True.

And since we do have the title and subject of this thread to include -- I will add this --


CCC - Catholic Church Catechism
The obligation of the Decalogue

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations. They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. The Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God:"

and how do we "show" love for God?

1 John 5:2-3 answers that question

 

[BobRyan]

The question was does He love me less because I am not observant.


I truly believe that there are no such thing as the 613 laws. They were history. When England owned what is now our country there were laws that we do not now have. Do you think England would think more of me if I kept the imposed laws that are no longer valid? On the other hand we do have laws that mirror the laws England had on the books. The same for the old covenant. Anything dealing with morality in the old is also in the new.

Amen! I fully agree.


I love 1JN. John not only tells us to keep the commandments, he goes on and tell us what the commandments are that he says to keep. You see it at the bottom of everyone of my posts. We know we are right with God when we do as John wrote.

All TEN for as we see in Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment is the "FIRST commandment with a promise" in that still valid - unit of TEN

And James 2:8-12 points out that the binding obligation is based on the "HE who said" not on the man-who-deletes the Commandments of God.

And of course for all eternity after the cross in the NEW earth "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before ME to worship" Isaiah 66:23

For "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27 - which points us to the "making" of both mankind and the SABBATH as we see in Genesis 1-2.

 

[BobRyan]

But I don't think a Gentile is under any obligation to refrain from bacon or mowing the lawn on Saturday, etc.

On the other hand, it is a different matter with the universal commandments, like don't steal, don't murder, etc. To break these is sin. Sometimes the sin is UNTO DEATH, meaning spiritual death -- our very salvation can be lost unless we confess and repent, turning back again to God's ways.

In respect to the title of this thread -- we have


The obligation of the Decalogue

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations. They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. The Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.


2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

The unity of the Decalogue

2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. The two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. The Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.


The Decalogue in Sacred Scripture

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

 

[BobRyan]

So that was "the good news" --

However -- the Mark 7:6-13 news is this --


Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

2190 The Sabbath, which represented the completion of the first creation, has been replaced by Sunday which recalls the new creation inaugurated by the Resurrection of Christ.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Off topic???? Is it off topic because you cannot stand to hear it? I believe loving as Jesus asks should be the topic of every Christian.

Bob S said: ↑
I care. How really is your care for others?

...is none of your business.

 

[Meowzltov]

In respect to the title of this thread -- we have


The obligation of the Decalogue

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations. They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. The Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.


2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christians and that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 the Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

The unity of the Decalogue

2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. The two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. The Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.


The Decalogue in Sacred Scripture

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

Absolutely nothing in the Catechism says anyone has to refrain from mowing the lawn on Saturday.