Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I'm sure in your case God is pleased you see it the way you do, for you are doing what in your heart you believe to be right on this issue

Make sure in your case God is pleased you see it the way you do, for you are doing what in your heart you believe is right on this issue, for sure; but just maybe you aren't right. The way I see it, you're wrong and God might not be pleased.
"To the Law..." Jesus Christ, "...and to the Prophets..." all the Scriptures, or there is no daybreak!"

 

[BobRyan]

The changed laws and times is a work in progress; its been going on for two thousand years.

The Laws of the priesthood in Hebrews 7 changed instantly according to Paul when Heb 8:1-5 points to Christ as our High Priest and not at all a Levite.

The Laws of the sacrifices and offerings changed instantly in Hebrews 10 at Christ's "once for all time" sacrifice replacing all others.

Meanwhile in the example above 'you quote you' as your text.

I say let the objective unbiased reader choose. It is left as an exercise for the reader.

 

[BobRyan]

Accept him who's faith is weak without passing judgement on disputable matters. Rom14:1

What disputable matters is Paul talking about here?

Verse 5

One man considers one day more sacred/ holy than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

"Alike" is inserted interpolation.

"one man observes one day above another - another man observes every day" - "he who observes the day observes it for the LORD". Romans 14.

It is talking about the list of Bible approved annual holy days in Lev 23 - it is not talking about observing the pagan days fully condemned in Galatians 4. As we noted previously.

Verse 14:
As one who is in the Lord Jesus I am convinced that no food is unclean in itself, but if anyone regards something as unclean then for him it is unclean

Romans 14 makes no mention at all of unclean food and we all know it.

you are inserting "unclean" into your own comment. Your 'quote of you' but not the text itself.

hence the note that exegesis demands that we let Paul interpret Paul on the subject of vegetarian vs meat eating - just as he fully explains in 1 Corinthians 8 what the issue is.

 

[BobRyan]

You are asking me to interpret scripture. The prophesy that Laws and times would be perceived to be changed, was given to Daniel; I don't think Gabriel expanded on this so I look to see which of God's Laws have appeared to be change; one is circumcision, another is the abrogation of the Ten Commandments. For times, the Sabbath is changed to Sunday and some throw the seventieth week down to the end of time.

Changing the Sabbath to Sunday would be a bad thing.
The NT never says anything about circumcision being changed - there was never a time when gentiles were required to be circumcised - OT or NT.

 

[BobRyan]

Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law or by believing what you heard?
Are you so foolish? After begining with the Spirit are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
Gal3:3

Who would you like to accuse with that? Who here is demanding that gentiles be circumcised in order to be saved???

Bible details matter - and that included context instead of pretext.

 

[BobRyan]

You tell people if they want to get to heaven they must follow the letter that kills. You just dont explain that to them

you are "quoting you" again. you don't explain why your accusations against others consist of just "you quoting you".

If I wanted to make the case that animal sacrifices are ended - but I limited myself to doing this by saying "the entire Bible is evil don't read it" -- perhaps some people would post that I am tossing out all of scripture with such wild extremes.

hint - we all know that we "should not take God's name in vain" - and this command still matters no matter the wild "don't quote the Bible" kinds of arguments..

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Accept him who's faith is weak without passing judgement on disputable matters. Rom14:1

What disputable matters is Paul talking about here?
Verse 5
One man considers one day more sacred/ holy than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Verse 14:
As one who is in the Lord Jesus I am convinced that no food is unclean in itself, but if anyone regards something as unclean then for him it is unclean

It is no pleasure for me to disagree. Nevertheless disagree I am obliged to disagree.

So again, I have to say, Neither verse 5 nor verse 14 is about <<disputable matters Paul is talking...>> or refers to in verse 1.

"One man considers one day more sacred/ holy than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind" is positively affirming the freedom in Jesus Christ of everyone in Him truly believing.

Verse 14 likewise is in every respect and in every word, affirmative of things Paul is "convinced".

By the way, <<more sacred/ holy than>> is not written; <<alike>> also, is not written.

The chief "disputable matter(s)" about which Paul is writing in the context Romans 14 and 15, is / are called by name in 14:10 and 17. The Sabbath Day of the LORD GOD nowhere features in context or content.

 

[stuart lawrence]

"Alike" is inserted interpolation.

"one man observes one day above another - another man observes every day" - "he who observes the day observes it for the LORD". Romans 14.

It is talking about the list of Bible approved annual holy days in Lev 23 - it is not talking about observing the pagan days fully condemned in Galatians 4. As we noted previously.



Romans 14 makes no mention at all of unclean food and we all know it.

you are inserting "unclean" into your own comment. Your 'quote of you' but not the text itself.

hence the note that exegesis demands that we let Paul interpret Paul on the subject of vegetarian vs meat eating - just as he fully explains in 1 Corinthians 8 what the issue is.

Of course you have to refuse to accept what is plainly written. It is clear what Paul is stating in rom 14:5&14&20

You only seem to reference verses in the NT that have the word commandments in them!

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a new moon celebration orva Sabbath day. These were a shadow of the things to come, the realities are found in Christ
Col2:16&17

You don't know the realities found in Christ, you prefer the old covenant at heart:

Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say. The old is better
Luke5:39

 

[stuart lawrence]

Who would you like to accuse with that? Who here is demanding that gentiles be circumcised in order to be saved???

Bible details matter - and that included context instead of pretext.

Bible details matter yes

Who would you like to accuse with that? Who here is demanding that gentiles be circumcised in order to be saved???

Bible details matter - and that included context instead of pretext.

Bible details matter yes. I accused no one and the word circumcision wasn't in the text I quoted!
The problem for you is, you refuse to yield to what scripture plainly states concerning the NC, for you want to cling to the old one at heart. So we get phrases like:
Bible details matter, anything to avoid accepting what the scripture plainly states

 

[stuart lawrence]

It is no pleasure for me to disagree. Nevertheless disagree I am obliged to disagree.

So again, I have to say, Neither verse 5 nor verse 14 is about <<disputable matters Paul is talking...>> or refers to in verse 1.

"One man considers one day more sacred/ holy than another, another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind" is positively affirming the freedom in Jesus Christ of everyone in Him truly believing.

Verse 14 likewise is in every respect and in every word, affirmative of things Paul is "convinced".

By the way, <<more sacred/ holy than>> is not written; <<alike>> also, is not written.

The chief "disputable matter(s)" about which Paul is writing in the context Romans 14 and 15, is / are called by name in 14:10 and 17. The Sabbath Day of the LORD GOD nowhere features in context or content.

I will give you fullproof spiritual truth here.
It is impossible for a christian not to be conscious they commit sin when they transgress the law written on their mind and placed on their heart by the holy spirit. You cannot sin in ignorance under the NC concerning That law.
Therefore, anyone who has no conscience they commit sin by failing to specifically obey a saturday Sabbath either has not had that law as written placed on their heart or they cannot be a Christian, that is plain spiritual fact
Yet the sda state you can be a christian and have no conscience you sin by failing to observe a set Saturday Sabbath. That alone shows they do not properly understand the NC according to their beliefs.
How can they build on a basic faulty understanding?
Why do they get this so wrong?
The more earnest you are in looking to the written code the less impact the holy spirit can have in your life, the less truth you then know

 

[stuart lawrence]

you are "quoting you" again. you don't explain why your accusations against others consist of just "you quoting you".

If I wanted to make the case that animal sacrifices are ended - but I limited myself to doing this by saying "the entire Bible is evil don't read it" -- perhaps some people would post that I am tossing out all of scripture with such wild extremes.

hint - we all know that we "should not take God's name in vain" - and this command still matters no matter the wild "don't quote the Bible" kinds of arguments..

I say you because I was discussing with YOU.

I can assure you, many sda members don't understand what not taking the Lords name in vain entails. Remarkable!

The read the letter of scripture but don't understand it.
Bible details matter! But the holy spirit is the one that illuminates and convicts of the truth

 

[DocWhyte]

Why do people like SDA doctrine?
They claim to follow the letter of the commandments closer than most others( I e the fourth)
That may appeal to many.
Avoiding the levitical unclean foods to be physically healthier may also appeal
And the majority of church goers in reality believe they will attain heaven by obeying the commandments, the sda much stresses this.
The natural mind of man knows in the earthly world you get what you earn, you get what you strive for, what you deserve.
Unfortunately that mindset takes you further away from the true gospel message

And yet the proclamation to the individuals with 5 and 2 talents in the parable of the talents is:
"well DONE though good and FAITHFUL servant"
There is something to do! Faithfully obey.
What's interesting is of the three, the one who did the least is the one the Lord was the most frustrated with. but in today's theology of do nothing and be saved he was the one we would have thought would be ok. We teach our children to do their best. We teach them to obey. their obedience does not win our love or what we have for them. Their obedience is for their own good. Much the way we don't obey to obtain salvation. We obey because we have been given the gift of salvation. Faith drives us to obey.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I'm under the new covenant. Why not try it

Why not try allow God his prerogative, to judge who is under the New Covenant and who, not? Only because of the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD GOD, you won't permit God? Tough guy!

 

[stuart lawrence]

And yet the proclamation to the individuals with 5 and 2 talents in the parable of the talents is:
"well DONE though good and FAITHFUL servant"
There is something to do! Faithfully obey.
What's interesting is of the three, the one who did the least is the one the Lord was the most frustrated with. but in today's theology of do nothing and be saved he was the one we would have thought would be ok. We teach our children to do their best. We teach them to obey. their obedience does not win our love or what we have for them. Their obedience is for their own good. Much the way we don't obey to obtain salvation. We obey because we have been given the gift of salvation. Faith drives us to obey.

I can assure you the sda I have met in the flesh and on this website believe they will get to heaven if they obey what the bible terms the letter that kills

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

And yet the proclamation to the individuals with 5 and 2 talents in the parable of the talents is:
"well DONE though good and FAITHFUL servant"
There is something to do! Faithfully obey.
What's interesting is of the three, the one who did the least is the one the Lord was the most frustrated with. but in today's theology of do nothing and be saved he was the one we would have thought would be ok. We teach our children to do their best. We teach them to obey. their obedience does not win our love or what we have for them. Their obedience is for their own good. Much the way we don't obey to obtain salvation. We obey because we have been given the gift of salvation. Faith drives us to obey.

Well done!

 

[stuart lawrence]

How does a christian fulfill christs law?
By looking to the written code/ literal letter of those commands?
Carry each others burdens and so FULFILL the law of Christ gal 6:2

John says we can ask God for anything because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. Which commands?

Believe on the name of his son Jesus Christ and love one another 1 john 3:23

Paul:

The commandments. Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not covet, and whatever other commandments there might be are summed up in this one rule:
Love your neighbour as yourself. Love does no harm to its neighbour, therefore love fulfills the law
Rom13:9&10

Why aren't John and Paul relentlessly stating:
Obey the TC"

Because that was the Old covenant, and because those laws scripture says are the letter that kills and the ministry of death and condemnation
How do you love as God wants you to?
Love is a fruit of the holy spirit.
As Paul says the christian follows after the holy spirit, not the written code.
So people who relentlessly state:
You must obey the TC don't get it

 

[stuart lawrence]

Why do people relentlessly state:
You must obey the TC

Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say. The old is better
Luke5:39

 

[mmksparbud]

Of course you have to refuse to accept what is plainly written. It is clear what Paul is stating in rom 14:5&14&20

You only seem to reference verses in the NT that have the word commandments in them!

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a new moon celebration orva Sabbath day. These were a shadow of the things to come, the realities are found in Christ
Col2:16&17

You don't know the realities found in Christ, you prefer the old covenant at heart:

Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new, for they say. The old is better
Luke5:39

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

You have capitalized "sabbath days"--that is not the way it is written. The Jews had many feasts which were called sabbaths. Those are separate from The Sabbath. This was said to the followers that were now Christians, there were some that had yet not come to understand about the meaning of the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Those ordinances, rituals relating to feast days that no longer were of any value esp. those that pointed to Jesus who had been sacrificed for us who now is our High Priest. Some had not come to understand this and also were stating circumcision was still required.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

You have capitalized "sabbath days"--that is not the way it is written. The Jews had many feasts which were called sabbaths. Those are separate from The Sabbath. This was said to the followers that were now Christians, there were some that had yet not come to understand about the meaning of the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Those ordinances, rituals relating to feast days that no longer were of any value esp. those that pointed to Jesus who had been sacrificed for us who now is our High Priest. Some had not come to understand this and also were stating circumcision was still required.

Of course you have to say that and try and change what is written. If you accepted what is written your denomination ceases to exist.
An ex sda man went over ancient manuscripts concerning the verse. It means what it states, though you will steadfastly refuse to accept it.
But as sda accept people as christians who have no heartfelt conviction they sin by failing to observe a specific saturday Sabbath that in itself shows sda theology/ doctrine fails the test of understanding the new covenant

 

[stuart lawrence]

How does a christian fulfill christs law?
By looking to the written code/ literal letter of those commands?
Carry each others burdens and so FULFILL the law of Christ gal 6:2

John says we can ask God for anything because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. Which commands?

Believe on the name of his son Jesus Christ and love one another 1 john 3:23

Paul:

The commandments. Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not covet, and whatever other commandments there might be are summed up in this one rule:
Love your neighbour as yourself. Love does no harm to its neighbour, therefore love fulfills the law
Rom13:9&10

Why aren't John and Paul relentlessly stating:
Obey the TC"

Because that was the Old covenant, and because those laws scripture says are the letter that kills and the ministry of death and condemnation
How do you love as God wants you to?
Love is a fruit of the holy spirit.
As Paul says the christian follows after the holy spirit, not the written code.
So people who relentlessly state:
You must obey the TC don't get it

And the above post shows that any denomination that relentlessly states:

You must obey the ten commandments
doesn't understand the NC. So that I two counts on which SDA theology fails concerning the covenant the Christian is under