• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

Status
Not open for further replies.

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,422
11,958
Georgia
✟1,104,244.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
"Honor your father and mother" Exodus 12

You must agree, if you are sda that I did the correct thing I leaving the church and giving up with Christianity when I was fifteen as I could not obey the moral law. t

Your giving up on the idea of not taking God's name in vain,... or giving up on the idea of honoring your father and mother - is not 'as good a thing' as you may have at first imagined. But thankfully you can accept the Gospel, be born again, have the law written on your heart and mind - and not live in slavery to rebellion against the Word of God. As Paul says in Romans 6.
 
Upvote 0

mark wright

Active Member
Dec 3, 2016
325
32
67
england
✟1,803.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
seared in conscience? Oh no wait you never were convicted that you should keep the Ten Commandments .. I forgot.


In the OT Isaiah 66:23 states explicitly that the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" in Is 66:23
In Gen 2:1-3 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- Adam and Eve.

In the NT

In Mark 2:27 the Sabbath applies to "All mankind" -- "The Sabbath was made for mankind"
In Rev 14:7 it is all mankind that is called to worship God who "created the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" - a quote from the Sabbath commandment
in Heb 4 "There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people God" actually quotes the Sabbath Commandment and says it 'remains' just as it was in Psalms 95.
In Rev 14:12 the saints "KEEP the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus".
In 56:1-8 the Gentiles are singled out and specifically blessed for keeping the weekly Sabbath.
James 2 points specifically to the TEN Commandments and says that the common element that would make us "guilty of all" is based on "He who said" -- and as it turns out God said all ten of them not just nine.
In Eph 6:2 - the entire unit of TEN is being identified when the text says "Honor thy father and mother for this is the FIRST commandment with a promise" -- that requires a specific unit of Law -- and is only true of the TEN.


Ex 20:8-11 it is BOTH Israel AND the gentile that "stays within their gates" that is bound to keep the Sabbath.
In Acts 18:4 both Gentiles AND Jews are worshiping "every Sabbath" so also in Acts 17:1-4 so also in Acts 13.
Not more bearing false witness please.
The law on your heart and mind reveals the sin as you agree. That law revealed much sin in me in my youth. But it did not convict me I sinned by failing to observe a specific saturday Sabbath.
I know you often have difficulty addressing the point made in posts. But if you are unable to address the point made in a post, why respond to it?
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,422
11,958
Georgia
✟1,104,244.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Revelation 12:17
…those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Revelation 14:12
…the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

We might ask which commands/commandments are referred to here?
The context is clear.
First Commandment: Regarding worship -- men worshiped the dragon and the beast rather than God. Revelation 13:4
Second Commandment: Regarding idolatry -- men set up an image and coerced people to worship it. Revelation 13:15
Third Commandment: Regarding blasphemy -- men blasphemed God. Revelation 13:6
Fourth Commandment: Regarding rest -- men are called to worship God, wherein Revelation quotes the Sabbath commandment (Exodus 20:11) which refers us back to God's rest at creation. Revelation 14:7


You ask, why did I stop at the fourth commandment? Because my comment relates directly to the passage of Revelation from Chapters 12 to 14.

This passage makes mention of these four commandments in some detail. The obvious reason for this is because the first four commandments relate directly and specifically to our relationship with God. The final six relate to our relationship with others.

And here in Revelation the focus is on our relationship with God, or the lack of it.

I was in no way implying that the Ten Commandments are not a complete package from where we may choose to accept or reject as our fancy takes us.

------------------------

Regarding the rest of your comment, I fully understand where you are coming from. While true, it does not fit directly into the focus of Revelation Chapters 12 to 14.

Rather, such a discussion links to passages like Romans Chapters 7 and 8.

The saints are directed to love God and their fellow man, thus the relevance of all Ten Commandments.

Good post - thanks!

When people get really wound up on the idea that they should not be asked to keep the moral law of God that includes the TEN Commandments -- I like to simplify a bit and just focus on one - "Do not take God's name in vain" that as they continue to vent against the idea of God's Ten Commandments being included in the moral law of God - they have the freedom to just focus on one commandment to vent about -- the one for not taking God's name in vain. A commandment never mentioned in Genesis and never quoted in the NT.
 
Upvote 0

mark wright

Active Member
Dec 3, 2016
325
32
67
england
✟1,803.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
"Honor your father and mother" Exodus 12



Your giving up on the idea of not taking God's name in vain,... or giving up on the idea of honoring your father and mother - is not 'as good a thing' as you may have at first imagined. But thankfully you can accept the Gospel, be born again, have the law written on your heart and mind - and not live in slavery to rebellion against the Word of God. As Paul says in Romans 6.
You are a shining example, and endorsement of what I have learnt in life.
Those who most earnestly stress the christian must obey the TC have no problem disobeying them as often as they wish
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,422
11,958
Georgia
✟1,104,244.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
.
The law on your heart and mind reveals the sin as you agree. That law revealed much sin in me in my youth. But it did not convict me I sinned by failing to observe a specific saturday Sabbath.

Which could not possibly happen as you say - IF in fact you were convicted that the TEN Commandments were included in the moral law of God - - or perhaps you never read them.

Rather than assuming that you never read the Ten Commandments - I assumed that you simply did not know they were included in the moral law of God.

This is the easy part.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,422
11,958
Georgia
✟1,104,244.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
"Honor your father and mother" Exodus 12

You must agree, if you are sda that I did the correct thing I leaving the church and giving up with Christianity when I was fifteen as I could not obey the moral law. t

Your giving up on the idea of not taking God's name in vain,... or giving up on the idea of honoring your father and mother - is not 'as good a thing' as you may have at first imagined. But thankfully you can accept the Gospel, be born again, have the law written on your heart and mind - and not live in slavery to rebellion against the Word of God. As Paul says in Romans 6.

You are a shining example, and endorsement of what I have learnt in life.

If this is your way of admitting that you knew that the command to not take God's name in vain is included in that moral law of God that you claim you gave up on... you have a funny way of showing it.

As I have said before -- details matter.
 
Upvote 0

sparow

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2014
2,737
452
86
✟570,419.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
Where shall I post if I don't love the SDA as a whole, but I don't hate the people in a theological system which is in contradiction to the gospel of Christ?

A quote from the founder of SDA, Ellen White, which is very disturbing, as she appears to be teaching a foreign gospel:

"...The terms of salvation for every son and daughter of Adam are here outlined. It is plainly stated that the condition of gaining eternal life is obedience to the commandments of God".


Ellen White prophesised that her church would loose it's way, that is no longer hated because the keep the commandments of God and faith of Jesus; and in her life time:

Sister White has said plainly...

Ellen_White.gif

"That these men should stand in a sacred place, to be as the voice of God to the people, as we once believed the General Conference to be--that is past". --Last Day Events 50.4

�As for the voice of the General Conference, there is no voice from God through that body that is reliable.� -Manuscript 57, October 12, 1895 & Manuscript Releases, vol 17, p 178


"The church is in the Laodicean state. The presence of Christ is not in her midst." -Notebook Leaflets, p 99

I am surprised that as a Presbyterian this quote offends you:

"...The terms of salvation for every son and daughter of Adam are here outlined. It is plainly stated that the condition of gaining eternal life is obedience to the commandments of God".

I have always believed the Westminster Confession determined a Presbyterian and the Ten Commandments are central to that confession.

Taking a single sentence of Ellen out of the context of every thing else she said as though you were a high court judge whose job it would be to disregard what the person meant and determine what the words mean out of context.

Matthew 19:17 (NKJV)
17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
 
Upvote 0

mark wright

Active Member
Dec 3, 2016
325
32
67
england
✟1,803.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Which could not possibly happen as you say - IF in fact you were convicted that the TEN Commandments were included in the moral law of God - - or perhaps you never read them.

Rather than assuming that you never read the Ten Commandments - I assumed that you simply did not know they were included in the moral law of God.

This is the easy part.
That's a terrible reply.
The holy spirit writes the law on the mind and places it on the heart of the believer God desires the to keep.
It is not dependant on man learning, but what God does
 
Upvote 0

mark wright

Active Member
Dec 3, 2016
325
32
67
england
✟1,803.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"Do not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7
"Honor your father and mother" Exodus 12



Your giving up on the idea of not taking God's name in vain,... or giving up on the idea of honoring your father and mother - is not 'as good a thing' as you may have at first imagined. But thankfully you can accept the Gospel, be born again, have the law written on your heart and mind - and not live in slavery to rebellion against the Word of God. As Paul says in Romans 6.



If this is your way of admitting that you knew that the command to not take God's name in vain is included in that moral law of God that you claim you gave up on... you have a funny way of showing it.

As I have said before -- details matter.
Do you obey the moral law?
 
Upvote 0

mark wright

Active Member
Dec 3, 2016
325
32
67
england
✟1,803.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The apostle Paul fully knew the demands of the moral law/ TC. As a christian he was not a hypocrite, pontificating about himself, this is what he stated;

For the letter kills but the spirit gives life
Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters of stone came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory fading though it was, will not the ministry of the spirit be even more glorious?.
If the ministry That condemn men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness
2cor3:6-9

The ministry that condemn was written on tablets of stone, That is the letter That kills. The only law written on tablets of stone was the TC
The ministry that condemns does not bring righteousness

However, sda say your justification/ righteousness for heaven is obeying the letter That Paul says kills.

The best I can say is. They don't fully understand the demands of That letter. That's at best.
At worst it is purely phariseeical for they do not fully obey That letter but insist you must, for they say only non christians fail to keep the moral law/TC.
I hope no one is fooled by such an attitude
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Gerhard Ebersoehn

Junior Member
Aug 22, 2008
1,409
63
✟14,946.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Where shall I post if I don't love the SDA as a whole, but I don't hate the people in a theological system which is in contradiction to the gospel of Christ?

A quote from the founder of SDA, Ellen White, which is very disturbing, as she appears to be teaching a foreign gospel:

"...The terms of salvation for every son and daughter of Adam are here outlined. It is plainly stated that the condition of gaining eternal life is obedience to the commandments of God".

So near, yet so far. Wrote she but, the condition of [erase 'gaining'!] eternal life is CHRIST'S obedience to the commandments of God ACCOUNTED the lost "while yet sinner" by GRACE.

That day there might be hope for the SDA.
But Ellen White is written; she cannot change. Therefore the SDA shall never change, and therefore, cannot ever retract or admit or apologise or say they're sorry and repent.

BobRyan is the example in SDA consistency as far as recognising error is concerned.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,422
11,958
Georgia
✟1,104,244.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
To be fair to sda, they are not the only ones who will tell you, you are justified by obeying the letter

is this the part where you free lance and just make stuff up.

Or are you saying that "not taking God's name in vain" is righteousness by works and a rejection of the Gospel -- back to your diatribe against the moral law of God again?
 
Upvote 0

mark wright

Active Member
Dec 3, 2016
325
32
67
england
✟1,803.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
is this the part where you free lance and just make stuff up.

Or are you saying that "not taking God's name in vain" is righteousness by works and a rejection of the Gospel -- back to your diatribe against the moral law of God again?
Do you fully obey the moral law?
 
Upvote 0

mark wright

Active Member
Dec 3, 2016
325
32
67
england
✟1,803.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I hope no one has the belief That if they do not build physical graven images, does not take the lords name in vain, honours their parents, does not murder, steal, commit adultery, bears false witness, or covets their neighbours material goods they have then obeyed the TC
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,422
11,958
Georgia
✟1,104,244.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The apostle Paul fully knew the demands of the moral law/ TC. As a christian he was not a hypocrite, pontificating about himself, this is what he stated;

You are almost getting to the point of saying that this part of scripture is "A good thing" -- I welcome it.

==========================================

notice how explicitly NT authors not only affirm the Commandments of God - but quote from them to help those who might wonder if the TEN Commandments should be included?

================= notice the "Bible details"


In Matt 22 Jesus affirms OT - LAW and scripture
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Matt 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ (Deut 6:5) 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ (Lev 19:18) 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

The firm foundation for the LAW and the prophets - LOVE.

TEN COMMANDMENTS AFFIRMED in NT

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;

and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31



Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.


Rom 13 NKJV
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments,
“You shall not commit adultery,
You shall not murder,
You shall not steal,
You shall not bear false witness,”
You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Rom 13 HCSB - Holman Bible
8 Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 The commandments:
Do not commit adultery;
do not murder;
do not steal;
do not covet;

and whatever other commandment—all are summed up by this: Love your neighbor as yourself.
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Love, therefore, is the fulfillment of the law.



Romans 2
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law.


13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
...
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

"Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
"ALL have sinned" Romans 3:23

Both Jews AND Gentiles are explicitly included in Romans 2 --
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.


Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty
 
Upvote 0

mark wright

Active Member
Dec 3, 2016
325
32
67
england
✟1,803.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You are almost getting to the point of saying that this part of scripture is "A good thing" -- I welcome it.

==========================================

notice how explicitly NT authors not only affirm the Commandments of God - but quote from them to help those who might wonder if the TEN Commandments should be included?

================= notice the "Bible details"


In Matt 22 Jesus affirms OT - LAW and scripture
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Matt 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ (Deut 6:5) 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ (Lev 19:18) 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

The firm foundation for the LAW and the prophets - LOVE.

TEN COMMANDMENTS AFFIRMED in NT

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;

and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31



Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.


Rom 13 NKJV
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments,
“You shall not commit adultery,
You shall not murder,
You shall not steal,
You shall not bear false witness,”
You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Rom 13 HCSB - Holman Bible
8 Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 The commandments:
Do not commit adultery;
do not murder;
do not steal;
do not covet;

and whatever other commandment—all are summed up by this: Love your neighbor as yourself.
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Love, therefore, is the fulfillment of the law.



Romans 2
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law.


13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
...
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

"Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
"ALL have sinned" Romans 3:23

Both Jews AND Gentiles are explicitly included in Romans 2 --
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.


Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty
Do you obey the moral law?
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,422
11,958
Georgia
✟1,104,244.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Those who imagine that it is "just SDAs" that argue for the obvious Bible truths about not taking God's name in vain and truths about ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments applicable to the saints -- might consider this --

So then what would be an example of such pro-Sunday scholarship that pertains to the 7 point summary list just posted?

Here we have section 19 of the Westminster - and of course you already have a few posts of mine quoting the "Baptist Confession of Faith"

Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;l and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.

Section 21 of the Westminster and Section 22 of the Baptist both address point 7 "the change" the edit of the Sabbath commandment from the 7th day starting from creation and all through the OT and NT Gospel until the cross where it is "changed" in their mind -- to point to week-day-1

===========================================

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws,


Ellen White prophesised that her church would loose it's way

Not entirely correct - she said it would appear as about to fall but would in fact hold fast firm to the end. But in this case our topic is the TEN Commandments and the Westminster Confession of Faith.


I am surprised that as a Presbyterian this quote offends you:

"...The terms of salvation for every son and daughter of Adam are here outlined. It is plainly stated that the condition of gaining eternal life is obedience to the commandments of God".

I have always believed the Westminster Confession determined a Presbyterian and the Ten Commandments are central to that confession.

And that confession admits that the Ten Commandments are -
1. Included in what it calls "the moral law of God"
2. Applicable to all mankind
3. Given in the Eden.
4. Today still applicable as TEN and not a downsized nine.


Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;l and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.

Section 21 of the Westminster and Section 22 of the Baptist both address point 7 "the change" the edit of the Sabbath commandment from the 7th day starting from creation and all through the OT and NT Gospel until the cross where it is "changed" in their mind -- to point to week-day-1

===========================================

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;

III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws,
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.