What Gamergate should have taught us about the 'alt-right'

[YogaFlame]

Plenty of them sent me death threats. Although I'm a man, so I can't really milk these vanilla threats for all they're worth. Lol.

You got a death threat on the internet? How are you still alive?

 

[MehGuy]

You got a death threat on the internet? How are you still alive?

I don't know.

I guess being a man I had to act like an adult about it and shrug it off. Instead of damseling myself to most likely beta men who like to feel a rare manly high as a protector of teh womenz. Lol.

 

[Skavau]

No, it wasn't about journalism. It claimed to be about journalism, but it wasn't really about journalism. If it had been about journalism, it would have gone after people in the industry who actually matter, not a bunch of nobodies who still don't matter outside the context of GG.

What in the gaming industry do you think matters, out of interest?

 

[morningstar2651]

On gaming articles, yeah. Not necessarily on all articles.

But isn't GamerGate against ideological press?

 

[morningstar2651]

What in the gaming industry do you think matters, out of interest?

Not to put words in their mouth, but I believe they meant GG would have focused on the AAA game studios and publishers rather than small indie studios and individuals.

 

[iluvatar5150]

What in the gaming industry do you think matters, out of interest?

Well, sales numbers are a good start. Influence on games, perhaps. Zoe Quinn had sold practically 0 units when GG started and w/o GG, we'd still likely have never heard of her. As a developer, she's done practically nothing. I know interns who've shipped WAY more units than her.

If GG was concerned about journalistic integrity, they would have been angry at the cozy relationships between journalists and big publishers. They would have been angry about publishers base their staff bonuses on metacritic ratings. They would have been angry about those huge parties at GDC and E3.

But no, they went after some woman who'd done less than a college intern, and a bunch of other folks who just coincidentally happened to all focus their attention on feminism and other aspects of gamer culture.

 

[Skavau]

Well, sales numbers are a good start. Influence on games, perhaps. Zoe Quinn had sold practically 0 units when GG started and w/o GG, we'd still likely have never heard of her. As a developer, she's done practically nothing. I know interns who've shipped WAY more units than her.

GG scope has gone way further than Zoe Quinn. That's ancient history now.

 

[Skavau]

Not to put words in their mouth, but I believe they meant GG would have focused on the AAA game studios and publishers rather than small indie studios and individuals.

I have seen stuff on AAA studios and publishers, but there's certainly more to scrutinise than just them. The independent gaming industry is becoming a big player. It's almost a completely separate entity now with different player bases.

 

[iluvatar5150]

GG scope has gone way further than Zoe Quinn. That's ancient history now.

And yet it still hasn't gone after the big players.

 

[morningstar2651]

Well, sales numbers are a good start. Influence on games, perhaps. Zoe Quinn had sold practically 0 units when GG started and w/o GG, we'd still likely have never heard of her. As a developer, she's done practically nothing. I know interns who've shipped WAY more units than her.

I had never heard of her before GamerGate. I don't pay a lot of attention to indie devs unless they're local, they're giving great talks at conferences, they're active in the development communities I'm in, or their games are selling REALLY well.

 

[Skavau]

But isn't GamerGate against ideological press?

No, Gamergate is probably against every single VG website accepting everything that Anita, Brianna Wu, Josh McIntosh and many others say without scrutiny and attacking its audience for objecting.

 

[Skavau]

And yet it still hasn't gone after the big players.

In what way should they "go after?" the big players. The AAA Industry is almost its own thing, and it's increasingly become a separate entity to the Steam-orientated PC gaming culture from which Steam derives. I don't even know what you mean here. GG, tends to broadly be against crap like day 1 DLC, unfinished buggy games, and obvious cash grabs, and poor game mechanics.

How would you have them attack the AAA industry? It just feels like you're complaining about GG criticising and responding to attempts by feminists like Anita to change gaming.

 

[morningstar2651]

No, Gamergate is probably against every single VG website accepting everything that Anita, Brianna Wu, Josh McIntosh and many others say without scrutiny and attacking its audience for objecting.

How would you have them attack the AAA industry? It just feels like you're complaining about GG criticising and responding to attempts by feminists like Anita to change gaming.

Would it be more accurate to say that GamerGate is about anti-feminism?

 

[Skavau]

Would it be more accurate to say that GamerGate is about anti-feminism?

Yeah, I've never denied that.

I know some in GG do.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I have seen stuff on AAA studios and publishers, but there's certainly more to scrutinise than just them. The independent gaming industry is becoming a big player. It's almost a completely separate entity now with different player bases.

But aside from certain casual games, the amount of money involved isn't even close. GTA V, for example, made a billion dollars in a few days, and continues to sell 1.5m copies/month even a few years later. Most of the COD games sell in the 20-30 million range. The marketing budget for a big AAA game is well into the 8 figures - maybe even 9 figures for a COD. Do you think none of that money goes into influencing "games journalism"? The vast majority of indie games will generate less revenue than what Nvidia spends on a single GDC party.

I had never heard of her before GamerGate. I don't pay a lot of attention to indie devs unless they're local, they're giving great talks at conferences, they're active in the development communities I'm in, or their games are selling REALLY well.

I can do better than that - I was kind of active in the indie dev scene in Boston when she was making DQ, and I had never heard of her then, despite the fact that that whole crew had multiple dev-related get-togethers every month. It was pretty common to have a few each week. And yet, despite the 100's of people I know from the indie and AAA scenes from Boston and now across the rest of the country, I can think of only 1 person I know who's ever worked on anything with her, and that project was shelved.

In what way should they "go after?" the big players. The AAA Industry is almost its own thing, and it's increasingly become a separate entity to the Steam-orientated PC gaming culture from which Steam derives. I don't even know what you mean here. GG, tends to broadly be against crap like day 1 DLC, unfinished buggy games, and obvious cash grabs, and poor game mechanics.

How would you have them attack the AAA industry? It just feels like you're complaining about GG criticising and responding to attempts by feminists like Anita to change gaming.

I'm criticizing the disingenuous notion that GG was about corrupt journalism. It wasn't. It only pretended to be. If it was really about journalism, then the GG crew isn't just anti-feminist, they're also really, really stupid.

If you're interested in good journalism, look at who throws the money and perks at journalists.

 

[morningstar2651]

The AAA industry would be the more logical industry to criticize if the movement was about games and rather than about anti-feminism.

Destiny sold more than 5 million copies in its first week and made over $300 million in its first week. Most indie studios won't see those kind of sales figures or revenues over their lifespan, and that was just 5 days for Destiny.

 

[Skavau]

It's, specifically, about being against a feminist attempt to encroach and fundamentally alter gaming culture and game production (and that focus has expanded) significantly to other things over the last year. Journalists were (are) colluding to that end, and have been for a while. I saw it with Atheism+ beforehand, it happened to tabletop gaming, a few pathetic attempts have been made against metal (mostly black metal and death metal). Antifa now is attacking black metal.

I note, of course, you didn't mention the content of the Crash Override leaks despite complaining that it happened.

 

[MehGuy]

Yeah, I've never denied that.

I know some in GG do.

I don't know why they would, it's the only thing worthwhile about it.

 

[Skavau]

I don't know why they would, it's the only thing worthwhile about it.

People don't like the social shame in not identifying as a feminist.

 

[MehGuy]

People don't like the social shame in not identifying as a feminist.

Yeah, maybe. Although it seems like being a Gamergater or even having a somewhat neutral/sympathetic view on it brings enough social shame itself.