Why the Catholic Church changes the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday

[BobRyan]

Christ summed it up this way in Mark 7 -

the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments


And notice how Eph 6:2 uses that same Commandment - predicating it's affirmative on the basis of a still valid unit of TEN in which the command to honor Parents is the "FIRST commandment with a promise"!

 

[BobRyan]

What is true and cannot be disputed is the facts from scripture that we are no longer under the 10 commandments where Sabbath was a requirement.

Even your own pro-Sunday Bible schoalrs do not agree with your wild speculation that the Ten Commandments are ended.

And we all know it.

Another point that is obvious to all - -read the title of this thread should you wish to post something on the subject.

For example --

=======================================
Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day -

Pope John Paul II

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Dies Domini

From the Sabbath to Sunday

18. Because the Third (the Sabbath) Commandment depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead. The Paschal Mystery of Christ is the full revelation of the mystery of the world's origin, the climax of the history of salvation and the anticipation of the eschatological fulfilment of the world. What God accomplished in Creation and wrought for his People in the Exodus has found its fullest expression in Christ's Death and Resurrection, though its definitive fulfilment will not come until the Parousia, when Christ returns in glory. In him, the "spiritual" meaning of the Sabbath is fully realized, as Saint Gregory the Great declares: "For us, the true Sabbath is the person of our Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ".(14) This is why the joy with which God, on humanity's first Sabbath, contemplates all that was created from nothing, is now expressed in the joy with which Christ, on Easter Sunday, appeared to his disciples, bringing the gift of peace and the gift of the Spirit (cf. Jn 20:19-23). It was in the Paschal Mystery that humanity, and with it the whole creation, "groaning in birth-pangs until now" (Rom 8:22), came to know its new "exodus" into the freedom of God's children who can cry out with Christ, "Abba, Father!" (Rom 8:15; Gal 4:6). In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered, perfected and fully revealed in the glory which shines on the face of the Risen Christ (cf. 2 Cor 4:6). We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi!

=============================================

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================



In these quotes we see "TEN Commandments" and "DECALOGUE" not "630"

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.


these Catholic Catechism statements seem to support what John Paul II and what "The Faith Explained" have said in their two points above --

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

(Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity

 

[BABerean2]

Until you read the actual Bible. (As even your own pro-sunday scholars admit when it comes to the TEN Commandments)

Joh 15:10　 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.　



Heb 7:12　 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.　


Gal 4:24　 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.


　
Gal 4:30　 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.　

Gal 4:31　 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.　


.

 

[BobRyan]

Joh 15:10　 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.　

In Matt 22 Jesus affirms OT - LAW and scripture
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Matt 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ (Deut 6:5) 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ (Lev 19:18) 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

The firm foundation for the LAW and the prophets - LOVE.

TEN COMMANDMENTS AFFIRMED in NT

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;
and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31



Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.


Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.



Romans 2
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law.

13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
...
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

"Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
"ALL have sinned" Romans 3:23

Both Jews AND Gentiles are explicitly included in Romans 2 --
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.


Eph 6:2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said,
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

 

[BABerean2]

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

Bob,

Are you under the "law of liberty" that James spoke of, or are you under the "law of Moses"?

Have you kept the whole law, as Christ did, which was presented to the young man in Matthew chapter 19 as the standard to get into heaven? There is nothing wrong with the standard. However, just like the young man, anyone who claims to achieve the standard is a liar. There is nothing wrong with the standard, but there is something wrong with us. Only one man has met the standard and He was God in the flesh.

Have you ever stumbled in one point?

Are you hanging onto the bondwoman or are you casting out the bondwoman and placing your faith in the law of liberty?

You have presented the choice above from the Book of James.

Are you going to try and stand on Mount Sinai or are you going to stand on Mount Zion?

One is based on our works and the other is based on His.
Which do you place your faith in?

Heb 12:18　 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,　
Heb 12:19　 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:　
Heb 12:20　 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:　
Heb 12:21　 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake　


Heb 12:22　 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.　


You spend a lot of time and space talking about the 10 commandments, but very little time talking about how every man but one, has never kept them.

.

 

[BobRyan]

Bob,

Are you under the "law of liberty" that James spoke of, or are you under the "law of Moses"?

.

That is a question dividing scripture against scripture instead affirming scripture the way James does in James 2


Eph 6:2 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said,
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

HINT: What commandments "exactly" are being quoted in James?

Bible details matter.

Christ summed it up this way in Mark 7 -

the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments


And notice how Eph 6:2 uses that same Commandment - predicating it's affirmative on the basis of a still valid unit of TEN in which the command to honor Parents is the "FIRST commandment with a promise"!

 

[BobRyan]

Good news for the RCC - they do not attack the Ten Commandments the way some others do.

Yesterday at 6:25 PM #322

 

[BABerean2]

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

There is nothing wrong with the 10 commandments.

Heb 8:7　 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
　
Heb 8:8　 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:　

There is something wrong with us.


Heb 7:12　 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.　


Joh 15:10　 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.　

.

 

[Meowzltov]

On the contrary it explicitly states that the Old Testament reference is to a Saturday - seventh day - Lord's Day.

Nope.

 

[BobRyan]

yep

 

[Landon Caeli]

The Easter cycle
The starting-point of the Christiansystem of feasts was of course the commemoration of the Resurrection of Christ on Easter day. The fact that for a long time Jews must have formed the vast majority of the members of the infant Church, rendered it impossible for them to forget that each returning Passovercelebrated by their countrymen brought with it the anniversary of their Redeemer's Passion and of Hisglorious Resurrection from the dead. Moreover, as they had all their lives been accustomed to observe a weekly day of rest and prayer, it must have been almost inevitable that they should wish so to modify this holiday that it might serve as a weekly commemoration of the source of all their new hopes. Probably at first they did not wholly withdraw from the Synagogue, and the Sunday must have seemed rather a prolongation of, than a substitution for, the old familiarSabbath. But it was not long before the observance of the first day of the week became distinctive ofChristian worship. St. Paul(Colossians 2:16) evidently considered that the converts frompaganism were not bound to the observance of the Jewish festivalsor of the Sabbath proper. On the other hand, the name "the Lord'sday" (dies dominica, he kuriake) meets us in the Apocalypse 1:10, and was no doubt familiar at a much earlier date (cf. 1 Corinthians 16:2). From the beginning the Sundayseems to have been frankly recognized among Christians for what it was, viz. the weekly commemoration of Christ's Resurrection. (Cf. The Epistle of Barnabas, 15.) It was presumably marked by the celebration of theliturgy, for St. Luke writes in theActs: "And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread" (Acts 20:7); and we may infer from somewhat later ordinances that it was always regarded as joyful in character, a day when fasting was out of place, and when the faithful were instructed to pray standing, notkneeling. "Die dominico", saysTertullian, "jejunium nefas dicimus vel de geniculis adorare" (De orat. 14). In fact this upright position inprayer was, according to Pseudo (?)Irenæus, typical of the Resurrection(Irenæus, Frag., 7). But for a fuller account of this first element of theChristian calendar the reader must be referred to the article SUNDAY.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03158a.htm

 

[Landon Caeli]

...IOW -

The first Christians celebrated the Resurrection of Christ on Sundays as a prolongated Sabbath, which ended up over time completely replacing the Sabbath.

That's how the seperation of Judaism and Christianity took place.

 

[Bob S]

...IOW -

The first Christians celebrated the Resurrection of Christ on Sundays as a prolongated Sabbath, which ended up over time completely replacing the Sabbath.

That's how the seperation of Judaism and Christianity took place.

Hi Landon, the great thing about the new covenant is that there are no laws governing such things as when to assemble. We are not bound to "keeping" a day. Sunday is a great time to gather celebrate our trust in Christ and to worship collectively. It certainly is a day that has special meaning to all that have accepted Jesus as Savior.

Just want to let you know how much I enjoy your photo. I have a puzzle program called Brainsbreaker (I have no idea how they came to name it that) which allows me to import pictures and make puzzles out of them. Yours will be special. Can you tell me where you took the photo? In Christ, Bob

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Even a good history non-religious teacher can show the complete error in this. (it's not how nor why it happened).

That's how the seperation of Judaism and Christianity took place.

 

[Bob S]

There is nothing wrong with the 10 commandments.

Heb 8:7　 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
　
Heb 8:8　 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:　

There is something wrong with us.

I would have written that there WAS nothing wrong with the 10 commandments and there WAS something wrong with the Israelites. The 10 were Israel's laws to deal with. They were not given to any other nation, they were not universal like some would have us believe. We have to realize the any laws, new or old covenant, dealing with morality are valid today. The 10 commandments were basic 101, there is so much more to the law of love.

I love your posts. They are so inspiring. Keep them coming.

 

[BobRyan]

I would have written that there WAS nothing wrong with the 10 commandments and there WAS something wrong with the Israelites. .

Romans 8:4-9 points out that there are two groups - the lost and the saved.

And in the case of the lost - well Paul says they do not submit to the Law of God - and they can not.

So then "yeah" -- it is still wrong to take God's name in vain.

And dishonoring your father and mother - is a bad idea -- still. As Christ reminds us.

Christ summed it up this way in Mark 7 -

the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments


And notice how Eph 6:2 uses that same Commandment - predicating it's affirmative on the basis of a still valid unit of TEN in which the command to honor Parents is the "FIRST commandment with a promise"!

 

[BABerean2]

Romans 8:4-9 points out that there are two groups - the lost and the saved.

And in the case of the lost - well Paul says they do not submit to the Law of God - and they can not.

So then "yeah" -- it is still wrong to take God's name in vain.

And dishonoring your father and mother - is a bad idea -- still. As Christ reminds us.

Christ summed it up this way in Mark 7 -

the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments


And notice how Eph 6:2 uses that same Commandment - predicating it's affirmative on the basis of a still valid unit of TEN in which the command to honor Parents is the "FIRST commandment with a promise"!

You continue to quote scripture from the time before the Cross to hold onto the Old Covenant and especially it's Sabbath day.

You know that Christ was born under the Law and He came as the only one who could ever fulfill it.

He said in Matthew chapter 5 that He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it.

He fulfilled the contract that the Israelites promised they would fulfill, but could not, at the Cross.

Once a house is finished the contract to build it becomes "obsolete". We find the same thing in Hebrews 8:13. In Hebrews 7:12 we find that the law did change.

You continue to claim that the law has never changed even though Paul's testimony says otherwise in Galatians chapter 3.

You continue to claim those who do not celebrate your Sinai Sabbath are lawless. However, nothing could be further from the truth. The only way that any of us can keep any of God's commandments is through the Holy Spirit working inside of us.

We are come not to the Old Covenant of Mount Sinai, but to the New Covenant of Mount Zion. These covenants are not one and the same, and you now know it.

Then you claim others at war with God and His Word...


Heb 12:18　 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,　
Heb 12:19　 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:　
Heb 12:20　 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:　
Heb 12:21　 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake　

Heb 12:22　 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.　



Joh 15:10　 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.　

 

[BobRyan]

I would have written that there WAS nothing wrong with the 10 commandments and there WAS something wrong with the Israelites. .

Romans 8:4-9 points out that there are two groups - the lost and the saved.

And in the case of the lost - well Paul says they do not submit to the Law of God - and they can not.

So then "yeah" -- it is still wrong to take God's name in vain.

And dishonoring your father and mother - is a bad idea -- still. As Christ reminds us.

Christ summed it up this way in Mark 7 -

the "Commandment of God" -- the "Word of God" and "Moses said" -- in Mark 7:6-13


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the Commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Certainly from their point of view they would never have accused themselves of diminishing the Ten Commandments in the least.

But what does Christ accuse them of doing?

1. Using their own traditions to nullify one of the Ten Commandments.
2. He calls the Ten Commandments "Moses says" -- and "the Word of God" and "the Commandment of God"
3. He argues that even though they do not claim to be setting aside one of the Commandments of God - they in fact are by observing the example he gives in the case of the 5th Commandment.
4. He argues that this is just one example of the many things they do with their traditions - in this way - nullifying the Word of God. Contradicting the Commandment of God - one of the TEN.
5. He states that it nullifies their worship.
6. Jesus is not defending their additions -- he is defending God's Commandments


And notice how Eph 6:2 uses that same Commandment - predicating it's affirmative on the basis of a still valid unit of TEN in which the command to honor Parents is the "FIRST commandment with a promise"!

You continue to quote scripture from the time before the Cross

66 books in my Bible -- are you saying you only have 23 after deleting the Gospels and the OT??

Your objection to "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16 -- "noted"
How about objecting to Christ's teaching in Matt 28? do you do that as well?

Matt 28
" 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Do you also object to the great "Sola Scriptura" texts that rely on the very Bible you reject?
"They studied the SCRIPTURES daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the Apostle Paul - were so" Acts 17:11

Luke 24:27"27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures."

This thread is about the RCC editing/changing the Sabbath Commandment to point it to week-day-1 -- are you posting against the majority of scripture - because you know that the RCC claims to accept all of it - and that this is the only way "in your mind" to affirm all TEN of the TEN commandments?

 

[BobRyan]

Once a house is finished the contract to build it becomes "obsolete". We find the same thing in Hebrews 8:13. In Hebrews 7:12 we find that the law did change. 　

1. Moral law such as "do not take God's name in vain" (never quoted in your part of the Bible) does not "get deleted" as soon as someone does not take God's name in vain. This is "incredibly obvious" to all of us. And you and I both know it.

2. Hebrews 7 is not talking about moral law at all - but states explicitly it is talking about laws concerning the priesthood in regard to a change in priesthood from man to Christ in heaven as our High Priest ... and we both know it.

3. Hebrews 8:6-10 AFFIRMS the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-33 saying that it is made with the "House of Israel" and in it - the LAW known to Jeremiah is "written on the heart and mind"... and we both know it.

Your own pro-sunday scholars reject the failed solution you try out - and your rejection of the majority of the Bible.... and we both know it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BABerean2]

66 books in my Bible -- are you saying you only have 23 after deleting the Gospels and the OT??

Your objection to "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration from God AND is to be used for doctrine" 2 Tim 3:16 -- "noted"
How about objecting to Christ's teaching in Matt 28? do you do that as well?

Based on what you claiming, we are to now circumcise all our male offspring as Abraham was commanded and to eat only Kosher foods as the children of Israel were commanded.

Christ was circumcised and He ate Kosher foods.

However, we know based on the Books of Acts, Galatians and Hebrews that things are different under the New Covenant.


Heb 7:12　 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.　


You quote the scripture that makes your doctrine work and ignore what destroys it.

.