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Why the Catholic Church changes the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday

BobRyan

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Don't confuse the two days.

======================================
Comvert's Catechism
https://archive.org/stream/convertscatechis00geie/convertscatechis00geie_djvu.txt

3. The Third Commandment.

Q. What is the Third Commandment?

A. The Third Commandment is: Remember

that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.

---------------------------50

Q. Which is the Sabbath day ?

A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Satur-
day ?

A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday be-
cause the Catholic Church, in the Council of
Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity
from Saturday
to Sunday.

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute
Sunday for Saturday
?

A. The Church substituted Sunday for Satur-
day
, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sun-
day, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apos-
tles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute
Sunday for Saturday?

A. The Church substituted Sunday for Satur-
day by the plenitude
of that divine power which
Jesus Christ bestowed upon her.

Q. What does the Third Commandment com-
mand?

A. The Third Commandment commands us to
sanctify Sunday
as the Lord's Day.
=================================== end quote

Now if the DAY was changed in the 4th century - then they admit that before the cross the Sabbath Commandment - (the 3rd commandment as they call it) told us to "sanctify Saturday as the LORD's Day" - but then that Laodicea event changed the commandment so now it commands Catholics to sanctify Sunday as the Lord's Day instead of Saturday as it used to be.
 
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Meowzltov

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======================================
Comvert's Catechism
https://archive.org/stream/convertscatechis00geie/convertscatechis00geie_djvu.txt

3. The Third Commandment.

Q. What is the Third Commandment?

A. The Third Commandment is: Remember

that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.

---------------------------50

Q. Which is the Sabbath day ?

A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Satur-
day ?

A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday be-
cause the Catholic Church, in the Council of
Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity
from Saturday
to Sunday.

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute
Sunday for Saturday
?

A. The Church substituted Sunday for Satur-
day
, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sun-
day, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apos-
tles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute
Sunday for Saturday?

A. The Church substituted Sunday for Satur-
day by the plenitude
of that divine power which
Jesus Christ bestowed upon her.

Q. What does the Third Commandment com-
mand?

A. The Third Commandment commands us to
sanctify Sunday
as the Lord's Day.
=================================== end quote

Now if the DAY was changed in the 4th century - then they admit that before the cross the Sabbath Commandment - (the 3rd commandment as they call it) told us to "sanctify Saturday as the LORD's Day" - but then that Laodicea event changed the commandment so now it commands Catholics to sanctify Sunday as the Lord's Day instead of Saturday as it used to be.
This is a duplicate post from another thread. I answered it here:
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...bbath-to-sunday.7874559/page-46#post-70344608
 
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BobRyan

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This is a duplicate post from another thread. I answered it here:
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...bbath-to-sunday.7874559/page-46#post-70344608


You said --

Converts Catechism got everything right except when the switch was made.

You will have to inform them of your opinion then.

But even you found no Bible support for your statement - and also you created the idea that the Didache was written in the first century.

I prefer the actual Bible. One or two others on this thread will prefer the Bible to man-made tradition in the mid second century if then --


Many scholars have dated the text to the late 2nd century CE, a view still held today, other scholars have the Didache might go back to the first century. The document is a composite work, and the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls with its Manual of Discipline provided evidence of development over a considerable period of time, beginning as a Jewish catechetical work which was then developed into a church manual. Additionally, apart from two minuscule fragments, the Greek text of the Didache has only survived in a single manuscript, the Codex Hierosolymitanus. Dating the document is thus made difficult both by the lack of hard evidence and its composite character. The Didache may have been compiled in its present form as late as 150,



Some feel more comfortable with “The Didache a Christian manual compiled before 300AD.”


Nowhere in the didache does it say that week-day-1 is the Lord's Day.


The Didache is mentioned by Eusebius (c. 324) as the Teachings of the Apostles admitting that it was already rejected by 324 A.D.

"Let there be placed among the spurious works the Acts of Paul, the so-called Shepherd and the Apocalypse of Peter, and besides these the Epistle of Barnabas, and what are called the Teachings of the Apostles, and also the Apocalypse of John, if this be thought proper; for as I wrote before, some reject it, and others place it in the canon."

 
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Meowzltov

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But even you found no Bible support for your statement - and also you created the idea that the Didache was written in the first century.

I prefer the actual Bible. One or two others on this thread will prefer the Bible to man-made tradition in the mid second century if then --
The Bible contains two curious references, one of which is ambiguous, and the other which simply assumes the reader understands what it refers to.

The first is Acts 20:7 "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread." It most likely means there is a tradition of meeting each Sunday, but there is the possibility that it means just that one Sunday.

The second is Revelation 1:10 "On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit." There simply is no explanation what the "Lord's Day" is.

Are we to be forever left in the dark with these questions? Nope. We can go to historical documents and find out our answers.

Let's look at Ignatius' letter to the Magnesians (considered authentic) in which he distinctly says the Lord's Day is not the Sabbath, and that it is the "eighth" day:

"no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him...
let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for “he that does not work, let him not eat.” For say the [holy] oracles, “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread.” But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, “To the end, for the eighth day,” on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ"

The Didache states that the Church would meet weekly on the Lord's Day (Sunday) for communion.

"But every Lord's day Lord's day Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned."

You asked about the date of the Didache:
"The commoner view is that which puts the Didache before 100. Bartlet agrees with Ehrhard that 80-90 is the most probable decade. Sabatier, Minasi, Jacquier, and others have preferred a date even before 70.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04779a.htm
 
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bbbbbbb

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The Bible contains two curious references, one of which is ambiguous, and the other which simply assumes the reader understands what it refers to.

The first is Acts 20:7 "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread." It most likely means there is a tradition of meeting each Sunday, but there is the possibility that it means just that one Sunday.

The second is Revelation 1:10 "On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit." There simply is no explanation what the "Lord's Day" is.

Are we to be forever left in the dark with these questions? Nope. We can go to historical documents and find out our answers.

Let's look at Ignatius' letter to the Magnesians (considered authentic) in which he distinctly says the Lord's Day is not the Sabbath, and that it is the "eighth" day:

"no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him...
let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for “he that does not work, let him not eat.” For say the [holy] oracles, “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread.” But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, “To the end, for the eighth day,” on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ"

The Didache states that the Church would meet weekly on the Lord's Day (Sunday) for communion.

"But every Lord's day Lord's day Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned."

You asked about the date of the Didache:
"The commoner view is that which puts the Didache before 100. Bartlet agrees with Ehrhard that 80-90 is the most probable decade. Sabatier, Minasi, Jacquier, and others have preferred a date even before 70.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04779a.htm

I think you have more than answered the OP. If Mr. Ryan doesn't like the answer he is free to hold his opinion, but I see no further need in beating this dead horse, do you?
 
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BobRyan

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The Bible contains two curious references, one of which is ambiguous, and the other which simply assumes the reader understands what it refers to.

and we have Catholic Documents -- admitting that in the Bible the term refers to the Bible Sabbath - the 7th Day and not week-day-1.

first century, by the time Acts was written. Revelation 1:10 references the Lord's Day.

The argument is not that the term does not exist -- the argument is that the NT - first century writers never say it is week-day-1 even though numerous times in the NT text - week-day-1 is mentioned.

But the Bible calls the 7th day the "Holy Day of the LORD" and calls it Sabbath in BOTH the OT AND the NT

here is another Catholic document that mentions the "Lord's Day"

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"
we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================

and still another Catholic document


======================================
Convert's Catechism
https://archive.org/stream/convertscatechis00geie/convertscatechis00geie_djvu.txt

3. The Third Commandment.

Q. What is the Third Commandment?

A. The Third Commandment is: Remember

that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.

---------------------------50

Q. Which is the Sabbath day ?

A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Satur-
day ?

A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday be-
cause the Catholic Church, in the Council of
Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity
from Saturday
to Sunday.

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute
Sunday for Saturday
?

A. The Church substituted Sunday for Satur-
day
, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sun-
day, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apos-
tles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute
Sunday for Saturday?

A. The Church substituted Sunday for Satur-
day by the plenitude
of that divine power which
Jesus Christ bestowed upon her.

Q. What does the Third Commandment com-
mand?

A. The Third Commandment commands us to
sanctify Sunday
as the Lord's Day.

--------------------------===================================================

The first is Acts 20:7 "On the first day of the week we came together to break bread."

Indeed - Acts 20 says that a one-time event happened on week-day-1 (again not calling it "the Lord's Day" so as not to confuse the reader). The "excuse"/reason given for this one-time event was that Paul was leaving the next day -- according to the text itself.


The second is Revelation 1:10 "On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit." There simply is no explanation what the "Lord's Day" is.


Are we to be forever left in the dark with these questions? Nope.

We have the actual Bible.

"the Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28.
Is 58:13 - the Sabbath "is the Holy Day of the LORD"
"The seventh day is the Sabbath of LORD thy God" Ex 20:10

Indeed - in Rev 1 there is no "week day 1 is the Lord's Day"... But the NT reader does have these texts to guide them.
 
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BobRyan

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Let's look at Ignatius' letter to the Magnesians (considered authentic) in which he distinctly says the Lord's Day is not the Sabbath, and that it is the "eighth" day:

"no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him...
let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for “he that does not work, let him not eat.” For say the [holy] oracles, “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread.” But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, “To the end, for the eighth day,” on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ"

The Didache states that the Church would meet weekly on the Lord's Day (Sunday) for communion.

"But every Lord's day Lord's day Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned."

You asked about the date of the Didache:
"The commoner view is that which puts the Didache before 100. Bartlet agrees with Ehrhard that 80-90 is the most probable decade. Sabatier, Minasi, Jacquier, and others have preferred a date even before 70.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04779a.htm

I think you have more than answered the OP. If Mr. Ryan doesn't like the answer he is free to hold his opinion, but I see no further need in beating this dead horse, do you?

Calvin would of course "object" to an appeal to a dubious proven-fraud "source" where half the letters are "confirmed fraud" and the rest are so dubious and suspected of rife interpolation - that Calvin rejected them all.

Give me "The Bible" instead.

Christ also takes that view in Mark 7:6-13
 
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Meowzltov

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and we have Catholic Documents -- admitting that in the Bible the term refers to the Bible Sabbath - the 7th Day and not week-day-1.
You can't quote a single authoritative Catholic source. All you can quote are the individual non-authoritative OPINIONS of ideosyncratic Catholics. Whoopdidoo. I'm so happy for you.
 
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Meowzltov

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But the Bible calls the 7th day the "Holy Day of the LORD" and calls it Sabbath in BOTH the OT AND the NT
Not the same thing. Rehash, rehash, rehash. You never learn.
 
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Meowzltov

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A. The Third Commandment commands us to
sanctify Sunday
as the Lord's Day.
So you admit that Catholicism teaches that Sunday is the Lord's Day (rather than the Sabbath). Thank you.
 
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BobRyan

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You can't quote a single authoritative Catholic source.

hint. page 1.

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day -

Pope John Paul II

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Dies Domini

From the Sabbath to Sunday

18. Because the Third (the Sabbath) Commandment depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead. The Paschal Mystery of Christ is the full revelation of the mystery of the world's origin, the climax of the history of salvation and the anticipation of the eschatological fulfilment of the world. What God accomplished in Creation and wrought for his People in the Exodus has found its fullest expression in Christ's Death and Resurrection, though its definitive fulfilment will not come until the Parousia, when Christ returns in glory. In him, the "spiritual" meaning of the Sabbath is fully realized, as Saint Gregory the Great declares: "For us, the true Sabbath is the person of our Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ".(14) This is why the joy with which God, on humanity's first Sabbath, contemplates all that was created from nothing, is now expressed in the joy with which Christ, on Easter Sunday, appeared to his disciples, bringing the gift of peace and the gift of the Spirit (cf. Jn 20:19-23). It was in the Paschal Mystery that humanity, and with it the whole creation, "groaning in birth-pangs until now" (Rom 8:22), came to know its new "exodus" into the freedom of God's children who can cry out with Christ, "Abba, Father!" (Rom 8:15; Gal 4:6). In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered, perfected and fully revealed in the glory which shines on the face of the Risen Christ (cf. 2 Cor 4:6). We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi!

=============================================

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"
we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================



In these quotes we see "TEN Commandments" and "DECALOGUE" not "630"

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.


these Catholic Catechism statements seem to support what John Paul II and what "The Faith Explained" have said in their two points above --

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

(Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.[/QUOTE]


Key question:

In legal terms - what does it mean to change one of the TEN commandments in the law - so that its obligation, its authority, its observance is now transferred to some other day - other than the one as given in that Command??
 
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BobRyan

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A. The Third Commandment commands us to
sanctify Sunday
as the Lord's Day.

So you admit that Catholicism teaches that Sunday is the Lord's Day (rather than the Sabbath). Thank you.

You are "gaming the thread" again.

We all know that the RCC claims the 3rd commandment is the Sabbath Commandment.

Please be serious.
 
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BABerean2

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A. The Third Commandment commands us to
sanctify Sunday
as the Lord's Day.



You are "gaming the thread" again.

We all know that the RCC claims the 3rd commandment is the Sabbath Commandment.

Please be serious.

The New Covenant Sabbath is not a day of the week.

Joh 15:10  If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 


Col 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 
Col 2:17  Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


It is Christ.

.........................................................

The Year of Jubilee

Lev 25:8  And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years. 

Lev 25:9  Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land. 

Lev 25:10  And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family. 

Lev 25:11  A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed. 

Lev 25:12  For it is the jubile; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field. 
......................................


Luk 4:16  And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 

Luk 4:17  And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 

Luk 4:18  The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 

Luk 4:19  To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 

Luk 4:20  And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 

Luk 4:21  And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. 


 
He said that Jubile had come to them.
It is the Sabbath of Sabbaths.

What did He mean when He said Jubile had come?
.
 
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BobRyan

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The New Covenant Sabbath is not a day of the week.

Joh 15:10  If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 

.

Sadly for your speculation no text that you quote said "The New Covenant Sabbath is not a day of the week." and we both know it.

What is more neither Jeremiah's statement on the New Covenant in Jer 31:31-33 nor the one we see in Hebrews 8:6-10 says "The New Covenant Sabbath is not a day of the week." and we both know it.

What is more Luke 4 does not say "The New Covenant Sabbath is not a day of the week" and we both know it.
Luk 4:18  The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 

Luk 4:19  To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 

Luk 4:20  And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 

Luk 4:21  And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. 


A great example of NOT saying "The New Covenant Sabbath is not a day of the week" and we both know it.
 
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Meowzltov

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In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered
This simply is referring to the things regarding the Sabbath that are transferred over to the Lord's day via the solemnity. This certainly does not say that the Lord's Day is in the OT.

You made me read a page and a half of worthless quotations, only to find THIS? Really??????? sigh*

You quote way to much worthless stuff, Bob.
 
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BobRyan

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BobRyan said:
In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered

This simply is referring to the things regarding the Sabbath that are transferred

On the contrary it explicitly states that the Old Testament reference is to a Saturday - seventh day - Lord's Day.

Your wild claim that these are not official RCC statements was totally debunked.
 
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BABerean2

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Sadly for your speculation no text that you quote said "The New Covenant Sabbath is not a day of the week." and we both know it.

For some strange reason you skipped the text from Colossians and we both know it.
And so does everyone else who is on this thread.



ol 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 
Col 2:17  Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 


The text above says the Sabbath was only a shadow and we both know it.

The text above says the body of all those things listed is Christ and we both know it.


In reference to the passages from Luke and Leviticus about the Jubile you failed to mention that Christ said Jubile had come to them and we both know it.

You also failed to explain what Christ meant when He said Jubile had come to them and we both know it.


Luk 4:18  The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 

Luk 4:19  To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 


Luk 4:20  And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. 

Luk 4:21  And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
 


The Jubile was the Sabbath of Sabbaths and we both know it.



Gal 4:30  Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Who is Hagar the bondwoman in the allegory of Galatians chapter 4?
Who is the son of the bondwoman in the allegory? 


.
 
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Bob S

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To all those who believe man is still under the requirements of the old covenant requirement of Sabbath observance.

Taken from my post in another thread that parallels this thread.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Anyone can and could write anything. Whether Sabbath change was/is true can be disputed as we see here on this thread.

What is true and cannot be disputed is the facts from scripture that we are no longer under the 10 commandments where Sabbath was a requirement. Jesus ambassador Paul wrote much about the laws of the old covenant and I believe him over all that has been written concerning the subject.

Number one fact, the Sabbath is now a shadow, Col 2:16-17.

Number two fact, the 10 commandments have been replace by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, 2Cor3:7-11.

Number three fact, we know we are true followers of Jesus if we "believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.", 1Jn3:19-24

Fact, all else is pure speculation based on someone's agenda. The new covenant supersedes all other scripture concerning old covenant law that was given only to Israel. What God expected from Adam and Eve during His day of rest after creation is speculation and even if He expected them to observe His rest on that day it would not apply to Christians observing the new covenant for the reasons above.

These are facts that cannot be disputed with honestly.
 
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BobRyan

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What is true and cannot be disputed is the facts from scripture that we are no longer under the 10 commandments where Sabbath was a requirement.

Until you read the actual Bible. (As even your own pro-sunday scholars admit when it comes to the TEN Commandments)


TEN COMMANDMENTS AFFIRMED in NT

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;

and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

Matt 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ (Deut 6:5) 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ (Lev 19:18) 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

The firm foundation for the LAW and the prophets - LOVE.

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

In Matt 22 Jesus affirms OT - LAW and scripture
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.


Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.



Romans 2
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law.


13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
...
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

"Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
"ALL have sinned" Romans 3:23

Both Jews AND Gentiles are explicitly included in Romans 2 --
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.


Eph 6:2 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty
 
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