Seven Days: Why is "I don't know" unacceptable?

[pat34lee]

Correct. There is no "24 hours" without reference to the sun.

Then people on submarines for months at a time have no way
to know what time it is?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Then people on submarines for months at a time have no way
to know what time it is?

Maybe they have timers on their lights so the lights go on - off - on - off - on - off ... ... ... ... ...

 

[pat34lee]

Without question, there is no such occurrence of 'evening' and 'morning' - which derives from 'sundown' and 'sunup' - without the Sun.

Obviously, evening and morning do not come from sunrise
and sunset, since they came first. Anyway, if God can tell
the end of days before the creation, he can keep track of
days without any help from his creations.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Then people on submarines for months at a time have no way to know what time it is?

Pat, people on submarines have clocks (either mechanical or electronic devices which keep track of elapsing time).

During the creation period - either six days or ten billion years (give or take an eon) - there were no clocks and no people. Your argument is puerile.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Obviously, evening and morning do not come from sunrise and sunset, since they came first.

Sorry Pat, you missed it again. "Morning" is a concept of humanity and derives from the Sun 'coming up'. "Evening" is an associated concept of humanity deriving from the Sun 'going down'. The movement of the Sun is actually a result of the Earth's rotation on its axis while the Sun stays in place relative to the rest of the Solar System.

The Creator has no need of 'morning and evening'; humans do.

Nor did the terms 'evening and morning' 'come first' as you put it. Since there were no humans at the time, the concepts - let alone the words - were not around for a good long time. You are confusing a written account of Creation with the actual event. The writer of Genesis did not watch it happen.

Anyway, if God can tell the end of days before the creation, he can keep track of days without any help from his creations.

Now you're confusing the Creator with a calendar. At the very least, you're confusing omniscience with timekeeping. The statement here is a selection of words resembling a sentence but carrying no logical meaning.

 

[pat34lee]

Pat, people on submarines have clocks (either mechanical or electronic devices which keep track of elapsing time).

During the creation period - either six days or ten billion years (give or take an eon) - there were no clocks and no people. Your argument is puerile.

I'm trying to get you to see what your statements mean
when taken to their conclusion. Man is intelligent. God
is not.

Genesis is not Moses' words, but the words given to him
by God. And when God says, "there was evening and there
was morning, the first day" when there was yet no sun or
moon, he meant literally 24 hours or one day. He could not
only tell a day or year, but from the beginning, he could tell
when you and I were born, and had a plan for us even then.
God is the master of all, including time and space, because
he created it all. He even knew every language and dialect
we would be speaking before a single word was said.

 

[Aman777]

I'm trying to get you to see what your statements mean
when taken to their conclusion. Man is intelligent. God
is not.

Sure He is since He IS the Supreme Intelligence of Creation. Where do you falsely suppose man inherited his Human intelligence? From nothing or from numerous mutations which can NEVER be repeated? Intelligence MUST be inherited from one with intelligence.

***Genesis is not Moses' words, but the words given to him
by God.

Amen but Moses did NOT know what the words meant. God hid His Truth in the future discoveries of mankind and ONLY the people of the last days before Jesus returns, can possibly understand. Dan 12:4

*** And when God says, "there was evening and there
was morning, the first day" when there was yet no sun or
moon, he meant literally 24 hours or one day.

False, and easily disputed since Today is STILL the 6th Day in the Creation of the perfect 3rd Heaven. We live today at Gen 1:27 because God is STILL creating Adam (Heb-mankind) in His Image which is Spiritually in Jesus Christ. Each of God's Days is best understood as an Age in the story of the Creation. Gen 1:28-31 is Prophecy of events which take place AFTER Jesus returns at Armageddon. IF you don't believe me, then tell us of a time when ALL living creatures were vegetarians as Gen 1:30 states. You CANNOT, since it's Prophesy of a soon coming event.

*** He could not only tell a day or year, but from the beginning, he could tell when you and I were born, and had a plan for us even then.
God is the master of all, including time and space, because
he created it all. He even knew every language and dialect
we would be speaking before a single word was said.

Amen, and God Bless you for your Faith, which came from the Father...BUT...my message is that we have now arrived in the last days and NOW, we can understand Genesis. It was written by the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth from inside the men who penned the words. 2Pe 1:21 He told us that God made 3 Heavens or boundaries of 3 worlds. God made one heaven on the 2nd Day Gen 1:8 and other "heavenS" on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 Amen?

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Genesis is not Moses' words, but the words given to him by God.

That is an arguable statement. At best, it is more or less correct and by some readings, infer a great deal not in the text.

And when God says, "there was evening and there was morning, the first day" when there was yet no sun or moon, he meant literally 24 hours or one day.

Completely wrong, but fanatically held to by several generations of ignorance worshippers and science haters. And of course, those who believe those people without study, understanding or thought.

He [referring to God] could not only tell a day or year, but from the beginning, he could tell when you and I were born, and had a plan for us even then. God is the master of all, including time and space, because he created it all. He even knew every language and dialect we would be speaking before a single word was said.

All of which is true, and none of which is germane to the discussion at hand. What you're saying is "God knows all and therefore God is bound to MY [pat34lee's] understanding." No, God is not bound by your understanding.

I'm trying to get you to see what your statements mean when taken to their conclusion.

And you are not 'seeing' much. But then, you are maintaining your current record.

Man is intelligent. God is not.

This seems to be your attribution to me. Not only did I not say or imply this, it is evidence of your lack of thinking. What you really mean is, "Anyone who disagrees with pat34lee is wrong and dismisses God". That is not the case.

 

[-57]

Correct. There is no "24 hours" without reference to the sun.

There was light prior to the sun.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There was light prior to the sun.

AMEIN !
After all >
WHO created time ?
I'd think HE knows when a minute has passed, or an hour, or a century,
PERFECTLY !

 

[miamited]

Correct. There is no "24 hours" without reference to the sun.

Hi skywriting,

That's a completely illogical statement. The 24 hours of a day have nothing whatsoever to do with the sun. The time span of a day would still be what it is today without even the existence of the sun. The time span of a day is determined by the speed of rotation of the earth spinning upon its axis. All that is necessary for man to compute the time span of a day is a fixed point upon the earth's surface and the relative position of the earth in the universe. By merely establishing that relative position and the fixed point on the earth, when the earth gets back to that same relative position, a day has passed. We have since divided the time span of the day into 24 hours, although that is not a precise calculation.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[miamited]

Without question, there is no such occurrence of 'evening' and 'morning' - which derives from 'sundown' and 'sunup' - without the Sun.

Hi archie,

That's not really correct either. Evening and morning are the same thing as our a.m. and p.m. They are merely two equal divisions of the time span of a day. Oddly enough, 12:01 a.m. comes when the sun is nowhere to be seen. How then, can one say that the sun determines a.m. or p.m.? Similarly, how can one say that the sun determines morning and evening?

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[-57]

Hi skywriting,

That's a completely illogical statement. The 24 hours of a day have nothing whatsoever to do with the sun. The time span of a day would still be what it is today without even the existence of the sun. The time span of a day is determined by the speed of rotation of the earth spinning upon its axis. All that is necessary for man to compute the time span of a day is a fixed point upon the earth's surface and the relative position of the earth in the universe. By merely establishing that relative position and the fixed point on the earth, when the earth gets back to that same relative position, a day has passed. We have since divided the time span of the day into 24 hours, although that is not a precise calculation.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

There would be no evening and morning without a light source. Perhaps that's what they meant.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

That's not really correct either. Evening and morning are the same thing as our a.m. and p.m.

Sorry, Ted. You are not only wrong, but completely miss the point.

I suppose it's possible you're reverting to the YEC tactic of ignoring - to the point of blotting it out of your mind - anything which interferes with YEC teaching. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Deal with these questions and I'll take you more seriously:

What is the meaning of A. M. and P. M.? When were those terms adopted and by whom? From where did 'modern man' (those humans alive today) derive the idea of twenty-four equal 'hours' in a 'day' divided into sixty 'minutes' and so on?

They are merely two equal divisions of the time span of a day.

Equal? Really? Do expand on that a bit.

Oddly enough, 12:01 a.m. comes when the sun is nowhere to be seen.

It comes from our current way of measuring the time of 'day'. Answer the above questions.

How then, can one say that the sun determines a.m. or p.m.?

You will never know unless you can answer the above questions - which I learned in grade school, by the way.

Similarly, how can one say that the sun determines morning and evening?

This question is breathtaking in the underlying ignorance.

Ted, I'm sure God loves you. I pray you allow Him to develop you in His image.

 

[Archie the Preacher]

The time span of a day is determined by the speed of rotation of the earth spinning upon its axis. All that is necessary for man to compute the time span of a day is a fixed point upon the earth's surface and the relative position of the earth in the universe. By merely establishing that relative position and the fixed point on the earth, when the earth gets back to that same relative position, a day has passed.

Ted, look up the definitions for 'solar day' and 'sidereal day'.

 

[-57]

Sorry, Ted. You are not only wrong, but completely miss the point.

I suppose it's possible you're reverting to the YEC tactic of ignoring - to the point of blotting it out of your mind - anything which interferes with YEC teaching. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Deal with these questions and I'll take you more seriously:

What is the meaning of A. M. and P. M.? When were those terms adopted and by whom? From where did 'modern man' (those humans alive today) derive the idea of twenty-four equal 'hours' in a 'day' divided into sixty 'minutes' and so on?

Evening and morning refers to the ending and beginning of a day. Those terms evening and morning when coupled with "day" 1 2,3 etc are a clear indication that those days had an evening and morning and were 24 hours long.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Evening and morning refers to the ending and beginning of a day. Those terms evening and morning when coupled with "day" 1 2,3 etc are a clear indication that those days had an evening and morning and were 24 hours long.

Yes,
but some religions disagree, and perhaps cannot agree without changing religions. (i.e. it doesn't matter what the BIBLE says to them when it is different than their religion).

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Evening and morning refers to the ending and beginning of a day. Those terms evening and morning when coupled with "day" 1 2,3 etc are a clear indication that those days had an evening and morning and were 24 hours long.

Minus fifty-seven, this is where I came in. You are arguing in circles and ignoring what's already been covered.

 

[-57]

Yes,
but some religions disagree, and perhaps cannot agree without changing religions. (i.e. it doesn't matter what the BIBLE says to them when it is different than their religion).

Considering this is a christian forum.....I'm going to argue the christian points.

 

[-57]

Minus fifty-seven, this is where I came in. You are arguing in circles and ignoring what's already been covered.

Considering this is a christian forum.....I'm going to argue the christian points.

It may have been covered....and the result should be a day = 24 hours.