Did the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday?

[masmpg]

Why is the Sabbath so important? Is it better than other days of the week?

Hello London, God instituted the sabbath day. I believe that if we do not want to be deceived we should follow what God says in His word. To follow man or even our own opinions could lead to the wrong conclusion. The Holy Spirit teaches us all things according to John 14:26 & 16:13. And we are told in 1John:2:27: "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." It is good to attend church but we need to search the scriptures to see if what is taught follows God's word and not a traditional doctrine of a denomination.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

In their ten commandments, in all the catechisms the second commandment is gone.

2000 years ago, when idolatry was forbidden.
it was absent from the meetings, places, and homes of ecclesia(GOD'S PEOPLE).

Today it is so common, it is not even recognized.
(still forbidden by GOD, but not by men)
To know this requires hearing and revelation from GOD,
and is clear in HIS WORD.
i.e. check HIS WORD. Verify in HIS WORD (the BIBLE).

 

[Meowzltov]

Actually, the Catholic Church could not have changed the Sabbath to Sunday because, as SDA theologians assert, the Catholic Church came long after the change was made.

LOL Well, that's a problem for the SDA and their arguments. For us Catholics, we know that the Catholic Church was born on Pentecost.

 

[Meowzltov]

The Lord's Day!

“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,

Don't confuse the two days.

 

[BobRyan]

If one compares the ten commandments in the catechism with the ten commandments in Exodus 20 they will find that they are far different. The third commandment according to the catechism is "remember the sabbath day to keep it holy." I just look at some of the newer catechisms and they changed it to read differently. Here is geitermen's catechism where they admit to changing the day.

https://archive.org/details/convertscatechis00geie

In their ten commandments, in all the catechisms the second commandment is gone. The tenth is broken into two.

two things to remember -

1. The catechism is not a re-print of the Bible - the Catholic Bible still has all the words in it - that our Bibles have - essentially.

2. In their catechism - they included a few words from the actual second commandment - but put them in what they call their first commandment.

 

[BobRyan]

Don't confuse the two days.

======================================
Convert's Catechism
https://archive.org/stream/convertscatechis00geie/convertscatechis00geie_djvu.txt

3. The Third Commandment.

Q. What is the Third Commandment?

A. The Third Commandment is: Remember

that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.

---------------------------50

Q. Which is the Sabbath day ?

A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Satur-
day ?

A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday be-
cause the Catholic Church, in the Council of
Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity
from Saturday to Sunday.

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute
Sunday for Saturday?

A. The Church substituted Sunday for Satur-
day, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sun-
day, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apos-
tles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute
Sunday for Saturday?

A. The Church substituted Sunday for Satur-
day by the plenitude of that divine power which
Jesus Christ bestowed upon her.

Q. What does the Third Commandment com-
mand?

A. The Third Commandment commands us to
sanctify Sunday as the Lord's Day.
=================================== end quote

Now if the DAY was changed in the 4th century - then they admit that before the cross the Sabbath Commandment - (the 3rd commandment as they call it) told us to "sanctify Saturday as the LORD's Day" - but then that Laodicea event changed the commandment so now it commands Catholics to sanctify Sunday as the Lord's Day instead of Saturday as it used to be.

 

[BobRyan]

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================

 

[Meowzltov]

two things to remember -

1. The catechism is not a re-print of the Bible - the Catholic Bible still has all the words in it - that our Bibles have - essentially.

2. In their catechism - they included a few words from the actual second commandment - but put them in what they call their first commandment.

Excuse me? The Bible does not have the words "first commandment" "second commandment". The divisions between commandments are traditions. Our traditions are just as good as yours, perhaps better.

 

[Meowzltov]

Comvert's Catechism

Comverts Catechism got everything right except when the switch was made. The council didn't do the switch; it simply explained why the switch was made and outlawed Christians observing the Sabbath. (Whereas before there were Christians who still observed the Sabbath or who did both). We know from first century writings such as the Didache that Christians were already meeting on the Lord's Day (Sunday).

"But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

 

[bbbbbbb]

Well, I see my post has been ignored. Here are the points I made -

1. The Catholic Church did not change the Sabbath into Sunday because -
a. It did not exist when the change was made, because -
1.) SDA scholars have dated the origin of the Catholic Church long after the change was made.

Therefore, because the Catholic Church did not exist at the time the change was made, it cannot be held responsible.

So, is the argument going to be made against the Orthodox Church for making the change?

 

[BobRyan]

Therefore, because the Catholic Church did not exist at the time the change was made, it cannot be held responsible.
?

When do you imagine it was made?

 

[BobRyan]

We know from first century writings such as the Didache that Christians were already meeting on the Lord's Day (Sunday).

"But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned" (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

You say the Lord's Day is Sunday - the Didache doesn't -- were we simply supposed to "quote you"???

 

[Meowzltov]

Well, I see my post has been ignored. Here are the points I made -

1. The Catholic Church did not change the Sabbath into Sunday because -
a. It did not exist when the change was made, because -
1.) SDA scholars have dated the origin of the Catholic Church long after the change was made.

Therefore, because the Catholic Church did not exist at the time the change was made, it cannot be held responsible.

So, is the argument going to be made against the Orthodox Church for making the change?

Actually I answered this in post 903. http://www.christianforums.com/thre...bbath-to-sunday.7874559/page-46#post-70344251

Also, there was another thread which brought up the Council which dealt with the transfer of the solemnity from Sabbath to the Lord's Day. I can't find my post, but I did reply that this council was not what actually made the switch (which happened way back in the first century according to the Apostolic Fathers) but merely described it, formalized the reasons for the switch, and made it unlawful for Christians to keep the Sabbath.

 

[Meowzltov]

When do you imagine it was made?

first century, by the time Acts was written. Revelation 1:10 references the Lord's Day.

 

[Meowzltov]

You say the Lord's Day is Sunday - the Didache doesn't -- were we simply supposed to "quote you"???

Ignatius does in what is considered by scholars to be an authentic letter.

 

[bbbbbbb]

When do you imagine it was made?

There is no doubt that Christians had been worshiping on Sunday long before Constantine came on the scene. According to SDA scholarship Constantine created the Catholic Church, did he not?

 

[BobRyan]

Ignatius does in what is considered by scholars to be an authentic letter.

The ignatius letter pile includes a pile of proven fraudulent letters. A perfect source for those not having the Bible as a source of support for their doctrines -- and the remaining letters have been suspected of rife interpolation by the same dubious sources that bring us the proven frauds in that pile of letters.

Scholars like Calvin rejected all of them.

Still - A perfect source for those not having the Bible as a source of support for their doctrines

 

[BobRyan]

first century, by the time Acts was written. Revelation 1:10 references the Lord's Day.

The argument is not that the term does not exist -- the argument is that the NT - first century writers never say it is week-day-1 even though numerous times in the NT text - week-day-1 is mentioned.

But the Bible calls the 7th day the "Holy Day of the LORD" and calls it Sabbath in BOTH the OT AND the NT

here is another Catholic document that mentions the "Lord's Day"

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================

and still another Catholic document


======================================
Convert's Catechism
https://archive.org/stream/convertscatechis00geie/convertscatechis00geie_djvu.txt

3. The Third Commandment.

Q. What is the Third Commandment?

A. The Third Commandment is: Remember

that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.

---------------------------50

Q. Which is the Sabbath day ?

A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Satur-
day ?

A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday be-
cause the Catholic Church, in the Council of
Laodicea (A.D. 336), transferred the solemnity
from Saturday to Sunday.

Q. Why did the Catholic Church substitute
Sunday for Saturday?

A. The Church substituted Sunday for Satur-
day, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sun-
day, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apos-
tles on a Sunday.

Q. By what authority did the Church substitute
Sunday for Saturday?

A. The Church substituted Sunday for Satur-
day by the plenitude of that divine power which
Jesus Christ bestowed upon her.

Q. What does the Third Commandment com-
mand?

A. The Third Commandment commands us to
sanctify Sunday as the Lord's Day.

 

[Meowzltov]

The ignatius letter pile includes a pile of proven fraudulent letters.

ah yes. Your usual slander against the Letter to the Magnesians. Some money is counterfeit, therefore no money is worth using.

 

[Meowzltov]

The argument is not that the term does not exist -- the argument is that the NT - first century writers never say it is week-day-1 even though numerous times in the NT text - week-day-1 is mentioned.

We certainly have a turn of the century Christian bishop who specifically rights that the Day of the Lord is the first day of the week. Oh, but you write it off as fraudulent with your "some money is counterfeit therefore all money is counterfeit" argument. Personally, I find that a little too convenient.