Yeshua, Lord of Hosts

[AbbaLove]

I like the truth that shines through the statement.... "God in the flesh".. I can be as full of the Holy Spirit as one can get but I can never be "God in the Flesh"

"He is God in the flesh.... can't get any clearer than that"

Yes, the Holy Spirit bears witness with the spirit of true Christian and Messianic Believers that the "Word of God" is Messiah Yeshua.
​

Genesis 1:3
And God said, "Let there be light" and there was light.
John 1:1-3, 14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing made had being.
14 The Word became a human being and lived with us, and we saw His Sh’khinah, the Sh’khinah of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth.
John 17:5
Now, Father, glorify me alongside yourself. Give me the same glory I had with you before the world existed.
Revelation 19:13
And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.

You are making progress with those three related threads including the latest being: Yeshua, Lord of Hosts which he is now in agreement when he says, "Yeshua, Lord of heavenly hosts."

If people want to say, "Yeshua is Elohim", fine, as long as they understand that he is NOT an Elohim on the same level as his Father is Elohim. The judges of Israel were "elohim", but not on the level of either the Father or the Son. "Elohim" is simply a title meaning "mighty one". There are degrees of "elohim". The greatest is Father YHWH. That is why I use a small "e" for all others. However, since I use a capital "L" and "S" when referring to Yeshua as my Lord and Savior even though Father YHWH is also my Lord and Savior, I can see I'm being inconsistent in my use of capitals. I will try and correct that.

John 10:30
I and the Father are One.

Perhaps (hopefully) gadar will be more receptive to your 'visionary' insight clarification of 1 Corinthians 15:24 (see post #154) as he likes you and may be more willing to listen to your spiritual insight. It's getting to the point that if i told him bananas were yellow he woiuld say they are green . By the way no one posting here "claims the Son (Suffering Servant) is our Heavenly Father" as he supposes. What we do claim is that the Father and Son are One (God in the flesh, "Immanuel interpreted as God with us").

A "Suffering Servant" at His first coming ... He is coming again as the Lion of Judah to judge and make war as mighty Elohim not as a "lessor Elohim" as gadar believes. He will be called, Immanu'El (God with us).

 

[gadar perets]

Yes, the Holy Spirit bears witness with the spirit of true Christian and Messianic Believers that the Word of God is Messiah Yeshua.​

Correct. At this time, the Word of God is Yeshua. Prior to his conception he was NOT the Word of God.

Perhaps (hopefully) gadar will be more receptive to your 'visionary' insight clarification of 1 Corinthians 15:24 (see post #154) as he likes you and may be more willing to listen to your spiritual insight.

I was asking for your spiritual insight concerning my entire post #154, not just about 1 Corinthians 15:24. Are you incapable of answering for yourself?

BTW, I would love to see visionary's insight as well.

By the way no one posting here "claims the Son is our Heavenly Father" as he supposes when what we do claim is that the Father and Son are One (God in the flesh, "Immanuel interpreted as God with us").

I have proven with Scripture that YHWH and YHWH of hosts are both the Father (post # 34 & 38). Therefore, everyone posting here that believes Yeshua is YHWH or YHWH of hosts automatically believes Yeshua is the Father.

As for John 10:30, I gave you the correct Scriptural meaning of those words as referring to being one in unity, not one in being, but you continue to say they mean Yeshua is God in the flesh. That is because you do not let Scripture interpret itself. Yeshua's words in John 17:11, 21-22 prove what kind of oneness he meant. All believers are to have that same oneness. Does that mean we are all to be Gods in the flesh?

As a "suffering servant" at His first coming He is coming again as the Lion of Judah to judge and make war as mighty Elohim not as a "lessor Elohim" as gadar believes. He will be called, Imman'El (God with us).

How are we to understand "Immanuel (God with us)?

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.​

He was not God in the flesh, but the only true God was with him. Since God was with Yeshua and Yeshua was with us, then God was with us.

Yeshua was not God, but God was living in Yeshua reconciling the world to Himself (2 Corinthians 5:19).

 

[visionary]

The phrase "deity of God" is a ridiculous man made phrase not found in Scripture. Colossians 2:9 does not teach the "deity of God". It teaches that the fullness of the ONLY TRUE GOD was living inside of His Son Yeshua. It does not teach us His Son Yeshua was God. The only true Elohim lives in all true believers.

As for "God in the flesh", we don't find that phrase in Scripture either.

Also, you failed to respond to post #154. Perhaps visionary can help you out if you need it.

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[visionary]

1 John 4:2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ [YHVH] is come in the flesh is of God:

 

[gadar perets]

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

A footnote in the Emphatic Diaglott reads, "Nearly all ancient MSS., and all the versions have "He who," instead of "God," in this passage." However, even if the true translation is "God", that does not mean Yeshua is "God". God was in Yeshua reconciling the world to Himself. Therefore, God (the Father) was manifest in the flesh (of Yeshua).

 

[gadar perets]

1 John 4:2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ [YHVH] is come in the flesh is of God:

How sad that you put "[YHVH]" in there to distort the meaning. 1 John 4:2 is my confession without your added word.

Here vis is teaching us that Yeshua is "YHVH". Yet, Psalm 2:2, 7 teach us that "YHVH" is the Father of Yeshua. Didn't AbbaLove just get done saying, "By the way no one posting here "claims the Son is our Heavenly Father"? Did vis just prove you wrong?

 

[visionary]

A footnote in the Emphatic Diaglott reads, "Nearly all ancient MSS., and all the versions have "He who," instead of "God," in this passage." However, even if the true translation is "God", that does not mean Yeshua is "God". God was in Yeshua reconciling the world to Himself. Therefore, God (the Father) was manifest in the flesh (of Yeshua).

Yeah... Was that at the baptism... He became God in the flesh?? According to you??

Was it at the conception?? Just when did "GOD" enter into the flesh?? according to you??

 

[gadar perets]

Yeah... Was that at the baptism... He became God in the flesh?? According to you??

Was it at the conception?? Just when did "GOD" enter into the flesh?? according to you??

We are not told the exact moment. It really doesn't matter. All that matters is that the only true God was living inside His Son (a separate being) as He reconciled the world to Himself. That shows that the belief that "God became a man" is not true. God did not become a man, but God came to live in a man for our sake.

 

[AbbaLove]

Yeah... Was that at the baptism... He became God in the flesh?? According to you??

Yeshua is our Lord and Savior whom gadar worships, but he doesn't consider that Yeshua/Immanu'El (God with us) is YaHWeH/YeHoVaH so it's possible he doesn't believe in the Deity of God.

In other words he might have preferred that you had written, "He became god in the flesh??" instead of you writing "He became God in the flesh??" So, gadar believes his Lord and Savior became flesh, but more as a "god" (suffering servant) than as YHWH. His theology is actually polytheism (two or more) according to his belief: "Yeshua, Lord of heavenly hosts and YHWH of Hosts."

John 17:5
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory and majesty that I had with You before the world existed.

Revelation 19:11-13
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. (mighty Elohim).
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He himself.
13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.

Genesis 1:3
And God said, "Let there be light" and there was light.

 

[visionary]

Yeshua is our Lord and Savior whom gadar worships, but he doesn't consider that Yeshua/Immanu'El (God with us) is YaHWeH/YeHoVaH so it's possible he doesn't believe in the Deity of God.

In other words he might have preferred that you had written, "He became god in the flesh??" instead of you writing "He became God in the flesh??" So, gadar believes his Lord and Savior became flesh, but more as a "god" (suffering servant) than as YHWH. His theology is actually polytheism (two or more) according to his belief: "Yeshua, Lord of heavenly hosts and YHWH of Hosts."

John 17:5
Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory and majesty that I had with You before the world existed.

Revelation 19:11-13
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. (mighty Elohim).
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns; and He had a name written, that no man knew, but He himself.
13 And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called The Word of God.

Genesis 1:3
And God said, "Let there be light" and there was light.

Yep, but I was wanting it coming out of his own posting in answer to my questions, so that there is no doubt where and how this "god" in the flesh came into being.

 

[gadar perets]

Yeshua is our Lord and Savior whom gadar worships, but he doesn't consider that Yeshua/Immanu'El (God with us) is YaHWeH/YeHoVaH so it's possible he doesn't believe in the Deity of God.

I believe in the deity of Father YHWH and I do not worship the Son as my only true God.

In other words he might have preferred that you had written, "He became god in the flesh??" instead of you writing "He became God in the flesh??" So, gadar believes his Lord and Savior became flesh, but more as a "god" (suffering servant) than as YHWH. His theology is actually polytheism (two or more) according to his belief: "Yeshua, Lord of heavenly hosts and YHWH of Hosts."

Please refrain my putting words in my mouth. Unlike your brand of polytheism, I do not believe Yeshua is "God", nor do I believe he was "a god". I do not apply that man-made word to the Son in any sense. The Scriptural words used for the Son are "elohim" and "theos". Both words were used of men such as Moses, Samuel, the judges of Israel, the mighty men of Israel, and Herod. Just because those words were used of those men, that does not make those men "God" or "gods". You fail to understand the difference between those words and the English "God" or "gods" which denote either the true deity or false deities. Elohim and theos, on the other hand, do not necessarily denote deity as in the case of the men I just mentioned. Yeshua is an elohim or theos in the same sense those men are/were. Why? Because according to Yeshua himself, there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD, Almighty YHWH, his Father (John 17:3). If we assign the status of deity to any other being and worship that being as such, then we are practicing polytheism.

 

[gadar perets]

Yep, but I was wanting it coming out of his own posting in answer to my questions, so that there is no doubt where and how this "god" in the flesh came into being.

This "elohim" came into being by his Father YHWH speaking him into being (the logos - the Father's spoken words and thoughts - became flesh).

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Yep, but I was wanting it coming out of his own posting in answer to my questions, so that there is no doubt where and how this "god" in the flesh came into being.

Sounds like he believes in Arianism...

 

[visionary]

This "elohim" came into being by his Father YHWH speaking him into being (the logos - the Father's spoken words and thoughts - became flesh).

And that was when... at baptism when He said "this is my only Begotten Son, listen to Him"??

 

[AbbaLove]

Sounds like he believes in Arianism...

In Visionary's first thread: Name the prophecies in the Old Testament about Yeshua, gadar says (page 3, #51) ...

I worship, prostrate myself, bow down to, and honor Yeshua as my "Lord" and my "elohim". I do not treat him as my "LORD" and my "GOD". It is the YHWH my Elohim who made Yeshua to me my Lord (Acts 2:36) and my elohim.

He also says ...

I do not believe Yeshua preexisted as a living being. I do believe he preexisted in Yahweh's plan of salvation even before anything was created. I do not believe he was "just a man", but a pure, sinless man that was filled with the Holy Spirit and conceived without the aid of a man (directly begotten by the power of Yahweh his Father.

We get a glimpse of his distinguishing representation between the Father and the Son when he recently said, "Yeshua, Lord of heavenly hosts and YHWH of Hosts"

Gadar has previously admitted that he is not consistent in his use of capital letters (L & S). What he is expressing is that Yeshua (savior) is lord of heavenly hosts and YHWH (His Salvation) is Lord of Hosts OR gadar might write: Yeshua, Lord of heavenly hosts and YHWH, LORD of Hosts. What we don't know is why gadar uses lower case for "heavenly hosts" and upper case for "Hosts" or if he isn't sure how to distinguish between the heavenly hosts that Yeshua is lord/Lord of and the "Hosts" that YHWH is Lord/LORD of as gadar hasn't yet decided who are the "heavenly hosts" and Who are the "Hosts"

The problem gadar has is when and when not to capitalize elohim/Elohim as also with lord/Lord/LORD. Sometimes he refers to Yeshua as "elohim" and at other times "Elohim" ...

I fully believe Yeshua is the son of man and the Son of God. I believe he is "like" the Father. I just don't believe he IS the Father and since the Father is God and there is only one true God, then Yeshua cannot be that one true God. He is an Elohim of lesser degree than his Father.

Thus, gadar would have us believe that Yeshua/Immanu'El is a God of lesser degree (polytheism = two or more God's) than YHWH as LORD GOD.

 

[gadar perets]

Sounds like he believes in Arianism...

Arians believe the Son preexisted as a living being. I don't.

 

[gadar perets]

And that was when... at baptism when He said "this is my only Begotten Son, listen to Him"??

No, at his conception.

 

[gadar perets]

What he is expressing is that Yeshua (savior) is lord of heavenly hosts and YHWH (His Salvation) is Lord of Hosts OR gadar might write: Yeshua, Lord of heavenly hosts and YHWH, LORD of Hosts.

Yahweh and Yeshua are both my Saviors. Yeshua is the Lord of YHWH's hosts. YHWH made Yeshua to be Lord of all, including all of His hosts. YHWH is not LORD of hosts since LORD is not a Scriptural designation for the Father. He is YHWH of hosts.

What we don't know is why gadar uses lower case for "heavenly hosts" and upper case for "Hosts" or if he isn't sure how to distinguish between the heavenly hosts that Yeshua is lord/Lord of and the "Hosts" that YHWH is Lord/LORD of as gadar hasn't yet decided who are the "heavenly hosts" and Who are the "Hosts"

There is no need to capitalize heavenly host or hosts. The only reason I used heavenly host was in reply to someone else who coined that phrase. Yeshua is Lord of all including heavenly and earthly hosts.

I understand your need to try and discredit me at every opportunity AbbaLove, but for the sake of your own wellbeing at judgment day, I highly suggest you desist.

The problem gadar has is when and when not to capitalize elohim/Elohim as also with lord/Lord/LORD. Sometimes he refers to Yeshua as "elohim" and at other times "Elohim" ...

Thus, gadar would have us believe that Yeshua/Immanu'El is a God of lesser degree (polytheism = two or more God's) than YHWH as LORD GOD.

Didn't you read post 171? Yeshua is not "a God", but an elohim (a mighty one). There is only one Elohim/God, Yeshua's Father, YHWH.

 

[visionary]

No, at his conception.

Ok... So when at His conception does the Father give WORD

 

[gadar perets]

Ok... So when at His conception does the Father give WORD

Yahweh spoke the necessary words to fertilize Miriam's egg with the exact DNA needed to produce a male human being.
How do you think Yeshua came to be? Was he a spirit being that was miniaturized and put in Miriam's womb?