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The Real Presence-the Eucharist

amadeois

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Yeah! I like your answer.

Positive and to the point and not like other people here.

You demonstrate the love of Yeshua (I recently found that too many words are of pagan origin all well as beliefs here)

MAY YAHWEH INSPIRE AS ALL

Christianity came from jewishness.

Do you people know why the Christians were that way in Antioch and not in Jerusalem?

Shouldn't we be called, "Followers of Immanuel?"

Or Yeshua Hamashiach?
 
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Philip_B

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When he was at the table with them, he took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. Then their eyes were opened, and they recognised him; and he vanished from their sight. They said to each other, ‘Were not our hearts burning within us while he was talking to us on the road, while he was opening the scriptures to us?’ That same hour they got up and returned to Jerusalem; and they found the eleven and their companions gathered together. They were saying, ‘The Lord has risen indeed, and he has appeared to Simon!’ Then they told what had happened on the road, and how he had been made known to them in the breaking of the bread. Luke 24:30-35

We know the presence of the Lord in the breaking of the bread. The great advantage of this is that we will recognise him in the wounded in humanity. We are fed in this most holy sacrament that we might be empowered to become the very thing we eat, the Body of Christ, and being so enlivened we might continue Christ's work on the world, the reconciliation of humanity with God.
 
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Basil the Great

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@Basil the Great

Did you just changed my name (not the computer) to Tiny Tim?

Ok, I'll be Tiny Tim for you and for God. God will love me the same way, whatever name I use. He knows I am one of His sheeps.

ARE YOU???
No, I did not change your name to Tiny Tim. Sorry I did not clarify. The famous Dickens' novel, A Christmas Carol, ends with the line that I was quoting.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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In fact it is very much the issue.

Would you or would you not ask a fellow Christian to pray for you? After all, the practice is recommended in Sacred Scripture.
It is NOT the issue, and resorting to making it that reveals your ignorance or sophistry. For that we ask others on earth to pray for us simply do not evidence or equate to asking invisible beings in Heaven for help, which only God is shown to be the Heavenly object of, and has the power to hear all such and respond to them.

The very fact that Scripture affirms asking a fellow Christian for prayer but which is always to those on earth and never to those in Heaven, despite this being a most common practice in Catholicism, while all the abundant prayers in Scripture are to God, testifies against your presumption based on a corresponding equivalence of ability btwn earthly relations and those btwn the Heavenly and earthly realm.

However, faced with the utter absence of even one example of a believer praying to anyone on Heaven by God, and being instructed to ("Our Father," not "our Mother"), despite prayer being a most basic practice, then i can understand your desperate attempt at presumptuous extrapolation.

But either provide the needed examples or cease from your spurious attempts to argue for what the Scriptures do not testify to.
 
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Philip_B

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The very fact that Scripture affirms asking a fellow Christian for prayer but which is always to those on earth and never to those in Heaven, despite this being a most common practice in Catholicism, while all the abundant prayers in Scripture are to God, testifies against your presumption based on a corresponding equivalence of ability btwn earthly relations and those btwn the Heavenly and earthly realm.

I struggle to understand the point you are making. In dying, Jesus conquered death, physical death is no longer the delineating factor. If someone's physical death prevents me from asking for their help in intercession in a sense am I not suggesting that Jesus conquering of death is in some sense not complete. Our love and concern for one another is not destroyed by death, and Jesus death and resurrection has resolved the matter.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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I struggle to understand the point you are making. In dying, Jesus conquered death, physical death is no longer the delineating factor. If someone's physical death prevents me from asking for their help in intercession in a sense am I not suggesting that Jesus conquering of death is in some sense not complete. Our love and concern for one another is not destroyed by death, and Jesus death and resurrection has resolved the matter.

LET ME TRY

This is what the Bible says
Ecclesiastes 9
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Psalm 146 King James Version (KJV)
146 Praise ye the Lord. Praise the Lord, O my soul.
2 While I live will I praise the Lord: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Psalm 115King James Version (KJV)
17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

1-memory of them is forgotten (the dead have no memory)
2-Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished (this is pretty clear that the dead have no love of Jesus or you because there is no memory in death)
3-neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun (if you ask a dead person for intercessory prayer you are doing this under the sun and GOD said the have no portion for ever what is done under the sun)
4-in that very day his thoughts perish. (how can they intercede if their thoughts perish)
5-The dead praise not the Lord, (this is as clear as it gets can you image being in heaven and not praising the LORD)

Satan Stated that "you shall surly not die" to EVE and to the rest whom believe that you pop off to heaven when you die. IE we are Immortal souls. That teaching as demonstrated above from the Bible is a Satanic teaching.

So you who are praying to the dead your prayers are to Satan. I am not saying this the Word of GOD does.
 
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amadeois

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@Original Happy Camper

Thanks for the clarificstion.

I like camping and backpacking. We are out there enjoying God's creation that is better than men's creation.

Like what some people here have been creating the Eucharist (never mentioned in the bible, a created word), the Holy Precense (another creation of man), the sacraments also created by men.

God made it simple and men (backed up by the enemy) creates a whole bunch of lies and those weak of mind fall for them.

The reason? No wisdom of God on their brains.
 
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rturner76

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LET ME TRY

This is what the Bible says
Ecclesiastes 9
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Psalm 146 King James Version (KJV)
146 Praise ye the Lord. Praise the Lord, O my soul.
2 While I live will I praise the Lord: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.
4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Psalm 115King James Version (KJV)
17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.

1-memory of them is forgotten (the dead have no memory)
2-Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished (this is pretty clear that the dead have no love of Jesus or you because there is no memory in death)
3-neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun (if you ask a dead person for intercessory prayer you are doing this under the sun and GOD said the have no portion for ever what is done under the sun)
4-in that very day his thoughts perish. (how can they intercede if their thoughts perish)
5-The dead praise not the Lord, (this is as clear as it gets can you image being in heaven and not praising the LORD)

Satan Stated that "you shall surly not die" to EVE and to the rest whom believe that you pop off to heaven when you die. IE we are Immortal souls. That teaching as demonstrated above from the Bible is a Satanic teaching.

So you who are praying to the dead your prayers are to Satan. I am not saying this the Word of GOD does.


Jews are bound by the old covenant God made with Moses. I am a Christian so I have entered into the new covenant with Christ:

John3:16
16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life

1 John 5:13-14
13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.
 
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rturner76

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@Original Happy Camper

Thanks for the clarificstion.

I like camping and backpacking. We are out there enjoying God's creation that is better than men's creation.

Like what some people here have been creating the Eucharist (never mentioned in the bible, a created word), the Holy Precense (another creation of man), the sacraments also created by men.

God made it simple and men (backed up by the enemy) creates a whole bunch of lies and those weak of mind fall for them.

The reason? No wisdom of God on their brains.


Many pass judgement. These brand new upstart churches with their Pastors having their online Youtube degrees want to vilify the very church founded by Christ the Apostles and their direct followers. The same church that approved the Biblical Cannon at the Councils of Carthage in 397 and 419.[12] These councils were under the authority of St. Augustine. The Bible we hold so dear was formalized by the Mother church which seems to be hated by so many.

If anyone needs proof of the Eucharist from the Bible here it is:


John 6:33
33
For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

John 6:35
35
Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

Luke 22 :19-20
19
And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

Matthew 26:26-28
26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying,“Drink from it, all of you.
28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins

John 6:48-51
48
I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

John 6:53-58
53
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

1 Corinthians 11:17-34
Correcting an Abuse of the Lord’s Supper
17 In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good.
18 In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it.
19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval.
20 So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat,
21 for when you are eating, some of you go ahead with your own private suppers. As a result, one person remains hungry and another gets drunk.
22 Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God by humiliating those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? Certainly not in this matter!
23 For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread,
24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying,“This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord.
28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.
29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.
30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.
31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment.
32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.
33 So then, my brothers and sisters, when you gather to eat, you should all eat together.
34 Anyone who is hungry should eat something at home, so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment. And when I come I will give further directions
 
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amadeois

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@rturner76

We are not passing judgement, only Yahweh and Yeshua can do that.

We are just telling what we see. The pure facts.

Too many people confuse those 2 issues that are very different.

What we see are your fruits that are represented on what you write and what you discuss here so adamantly and also we see the errors because some have not taken to study the word of God but are paying too much attention to what other people have said and have not verified if it agrees to the word, to the truth.

The discussions here show that some have studied and are going in the right direction but others have decided that their approach is the correct one, so be it.

Act like a Berean, check what people say against the word, use your own brain and don't allow prescribed ideas to influence your mind.

It happened to me. I was a Catholic and I left the errors, BIG ERRORS, I became a Christian but I saw how they fight between the different denominations and I came with the answer that those that called themselves Christians could not be the body of Chist.

So now I only follow the word of Yahweh my father, my creator, my friend.

ARE YOU HIS FRIEND?
 
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amadeois

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Christianity is still using many words of PAGAN origin.

Let's make a change for the best and use the correct ones.

Church should be CONGREGATION or ASSEMBLY.

Jesus should be Yeshua, He was a jew. Why call it Charles? Or Immanuel = God with us.

God should be Yahweh. His chosen people are the Jewish nation and He gave them His message on Hebrew. Not English.

Christ or Messiah should be Hamashiach.

The days of the week should be:
1st day, second day, ... 7th day or last day of week or the day of rest=sabbath or sabath.

The month:
Abib for the 1st month.
Then second, third, fourth ... twelveth.

September should be the seventh month = septa = seven
October = octave = eighth
November and December should be ninth and tenth respectively.

Easter is a pagan name and is not celebrated according to the word of Yahweh.

The Sabbath day is the day when Yeshua resurrected. Not Sunday which name pays respect to the sun and not the Son.

The year should start in March at the beginning of the Jewish year when Spring begins: Spring Equinox, March 20.

Are we following the right calendar? No way.

The Bible proves the right calendar and is not the moon calendar followed by the jews of today.

God created the calendar on the 4th day of His creation as we know it now but we are not following His instructions.

There has been deception since the beginning and we need to know HOW to discern the truth from a lie.

How?

Follow Yahweh's Manual for life:

HIS WORD, ONLY HIS WORD.
 
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SeventyOne

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Riiiight. So the universal Church is not the universal Church, and those who don't agree with the universal Church aren't really outsiders, but insiders. I get it. Thanks.

It's only the universal church because the people in it call it the universal church.
If a church were to declare themselves the "ultra-super-duper universal and infinite church", that wouldn't make it so, but by the Catholic standards, that other church would win.

Just because Catholics call themselves such doesn't mean they are what they claim to be.
 
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rturner76

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@rturner76

But the New Covenant was made with the house of Judah and the house of Israel.

Are the Christians from any one of those 2 houses?

What book are you reading?

On a larger scale I reading The New Testament of The Bible. The Bool is Romans 11
Gentiles Grafted In
11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass mean!

13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith.do not become proud, but fear.

I am not of Judah or Israel. I am a Gentile....grafted in by the new covenant made with all mankind.
 
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rturner76

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It's only the universal church because the people in it call it the universal church.
If a church were to declare themselves the "ultra-super-duper universal and infinite church", that wouldn't make it so, but by the Catholic standards, that other church would win.

Just because Catholics call themselves such doesn't mean they are what they claim to be.
Actually that's exactly what catholic means-universal. It was the first religious organization anyone could belong to regardless of ethnic background hence the name Universal or Catholic Church. The FIRST CHURCH
 
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amadeois

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Still, the covenant was not made with the grafted ones. The grafted ones are getting an advantage because what Yeshua did for everybody.

He gave us a gift. He undid what Adam had done. But you need to accept that gift with your mind.

You need to accept what Yeshua is and what His Father is asking, and that thing is that you should obey Yahweh.

With our beliefs, we can show if we are being obedient to our Creator. Our actions show our beliefs on what we write here.
 
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SeventyOne

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QUOTE="rturner76, post: 70313418, member: 284067"]Actually that's exactly what catholic means-universal. It was the first religious organization anyone could belong to regardless of ethnic background hence the name Universal or Catholic Church. The FIRST CHURCH[/QUOTE]

I know, small 'c' catholic means universal, but big 'C' Catholic, as in the RCC, is a usurpation of the term. They apply the word for 'universal' to themselves in their title then claim they are thereby THE universal church.

It could be quite a convincing word trick to those not really paying attention.
 
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PeaceByJesus

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Lol, you need guidance buddy. As do a lot of the people who do not know Catholicism. I agree, you do resort to a tremendous amount of unsubstantiated assertions. You just grab ideas from nowhere really.
Once again, PROVE IT! It you who has continually posted unsubstantiated assertions, and when challenged, you simply double down with more unsubstantiated assertions!
Catholicism is beautiful, true and from deep within Gods heart. Its teachings are rich and full of the Holy Spirit...The Catholic Church stands tall and strong...Jesus is steering the Catholic Church!..I would die for my faith. I believe in the Catholic church. The Church started by Jesus Christ.
This devotional is some sort of substantiation? Mormons will say the like.
The Catholic church has been here for 2,000 years and it will still be here when Jesus returns.
Which is another question-beggging bare assertion, presuming the very thing that needs to be proved. But in contrast, among other things, the NT church <a manifestly did not teach perpetual ensured magisterial infallibility, which is unseen and unnecessary in the life of the church, nor did it have a separate class of believers distinctively called "saints" or or clergy distinctively titled "priests offering up "real" flesh and blood as a sacrifice for sin, which is to be literally consumed in order to obtain spiritual life.

Nor is it otherwise Scripturally manifest in the life of the church as being the sacrament around which all else revolves, and the "source and summit of the Christian faith," "in which our redemption is accomplished."

Nor is the NT church manifest as looking to Peter as the first of a line of exalted infallible popes reigning over the church from Rome (which even Catholic scholarship provides testimony against, and praying to created beings in Heaven, and enduring postmortem purifying torments in order to become good enough to enter Heaven, and saying rote prayers to obtain early release from it, and requiring clerical celibacy as the norm. Etc.

No wonder Catholics rely on amorphous "oral tradition," for under the premise of magisterial infallibility all sorts of fables can be channeled into binding doctrine, even claiming to "remember" an extraScriptural event which lacks even early and was opposed by RC scholars themselves the world over as being apostolic tradition.
Jesus 'IS' in the Eucharist. 'He' gave us the Eucharist. He would not give us just some worthless 'symbol'. No! He gave us His Body and Blood.
Repeating your belief simply does not make it true, and it your priestly sacrificial central sacrament is simply not seen in the life of the NT church, which is interpretive of the gospels.

Nor does your Eucharist conflate with the rest of Scripture, and in which spiritual life was never obtained by literally physically eating anything.
Look at the miracles the Eucharist has shown over the years.
Look at what the devil can do. (Exodus 7:11,22; 8:7; 2Thessalonians 2:9) The veracity of miracles as evidence of God are subject to Scripture, which does not support the Cath Eucharist.

In addition, bread becoming actual flesh is simply not what transubstantiation teaches, even though that is what would be consistent with a purely literal understanding of "take eat, this is my body which is broken for you," in contrast to the Cath Eucharist (see below.)
How can anyone Blaspheme against the Eucharist!!! The Eucharist is God! Its Jesus's flesh and blood.
As your presume is false also also is your conclusion, as your argument by outrage.
"Do this in memory of me" Jesus said. "Eat my Body and drink my Blood" He said
Which language easily conflates with the use of metaphorical language often seen elsewhere, and David even called drinking water the blood of men and poured it out unto the Lord, among other examples i provided but which are ignored. And Is. 53 says that Lord would be figuratively broken and His soul poured out as an offering.

Moreover, as also expressed, taking these words at issue literally means that the flesh and blood that was to be eaten was the very flesh that would be crucified broken for them, and the blood poured out, and which was that which was manifestly incarnated, thus it looked like, and would taste and scientifically test as real flesh.

In contrast, preaching a Christ who appeared as an inanimate object and would taste and but would scientifically test as such would be a false a Christ as the phantom Christ of some Gnostics.

Unlike the real incarnated Christ whom John validated (against Gnostics) in the light of His manifest physicality, "which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled," (1 John 1:1) "he that came by water and blood," (1 John 5:6)

And i have already explained this things and more then you need to go back and interact with what i said, rather then simply reiterating your self-comforting assertions.
The jews ran away when he first told them this as they took it 'LITERALLY'.
And as said (but ignored) in the post you responded to,
Yes, for they seemed to have imagined the Lord was going to actually give them His flesh and blood, like as other Jews presumed when He spoke of destroying the Temple then He was speaking of the literal one, and they did not wait for the spiritual explanation.
He meant it 'LITERALLY'. He knew the sacrifice he was about to do. He knew the last supper was on the horizon. He knew he was leaving us a part of Him to be remembered daily in the sacrifice of the mass.
Which conclusion simply more mere assertion, for the rest of Scripture after John does not support the Cath Eucharist, and there is zero said in Jn. 6 about a daily in the sacrifice of the mass, and rather than leaving us a part of Him, in conclusion the Lord only speaks about departing, and expresses the useless nature of the flesh as food, but that "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63)

And which perfectly conflates with the rest of John and the NT, in which spiritual life is obtained by believing the gospel of salvation, and then souls live by the preached word of God, which is called "milk" (1Pt. 1:22) and "meat" (Heb. 5:12,14) and by which souls are "nourished" and built up, which is nowhere said of the Lor's supper in the life of the church. You are simply reading Jn. 6 and last supper accounts in isolation from the rest of Scripture.

Go read here and the post here before you come back with more argument by assertions.
Those who disbelieve the real presence are truly going against Jesus. They are also missing out on the most awesome sacrament.
More false charges based upon ignorance and or delusion.
 
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