Is following the 10 commandments required for salvation?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

When she was diagnosed terminally ill with cancer, my wife and I went to her home to look after her during her illness.

When my wife to be was diagnosed with terminal cancer in 1988, given at most 6 months to live,
I comforted her, helped her, (she had to be carried as she could not walk),
fed her, took her wherever she wanted to go,
and found a doctor who knew how to heal her.
He had been healing cancer for over 20 years in St.Louis. (not legally; but routine around the world)
In six months after her terminal diagnosis,
my wife was free of cancer. Able to walk on her own, able to keep full meals down (where before for months she could keep almost nothing down, not even a full glass of water many days),
and eventually (after a 'risky' pregnancy in following years) give birth to very healthy children.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Honest christians know if you fail to obey the law relating to the inner man, you have no right to insist others obey the law unto salvation.
Paul the pharisee thought he obeyed the law. He was the most ardent of Pharisees and had families thrown into prison, so zealous was he to defend obedience to the letter.
However, Paul the christian understood the truth. Looking back on his time as a pharisee, he said the law brought condemnation to him, for though he could faultlessly obey the legalistic law, that which could be seen on the outside, he could not obey. Thou shalt not covet

 

[stuart lawrence]

When my wife to be was diagnosed with terminal cancer in 1988, given at most 6 months to live,
I comforted her, helped her, (she had to be carried as she could not walk),
fed her, took her wherever she wanted to go,
and found a doctor who knew how to heal her.
He had been healing cancer for over 20 years in St.Louis. (not legally; but routine around the world)
In six months after her terminal diagnosis,
my wife was free of cancer. Able to walk on her own, able to keep full meals down (where before for months she could keep almost nothing down, not even a full glass of water many days),
and eventually (after a 'risky' pregnancy in following years) give birth to very healthy children.

That's truly wonderful your wife overcame that dreadful illness. Thank you for sharing the story

 

[Jim Langston]

But you do have to be perfect to be saved under the law. Did you not know that?
James2:10 Gal3:10&11

Where or when did I ever say or imply perfect? Many, many, many times in this thread have I repeatedly said I am not talking about keeping the ten commandments perfectly. Many, many times people have said "you can't be perfect".

To you, what does it mean to follow Jesus? Do you? In the same vein, do you follow the ten commandments. Just as by following Jesus you can't do everything He did, you are aupposed to model your life after Him. Same with the ten commandments Novody can follow them perfectly as the bible states on numerous occasions. But we are supposed to model our lives after them.

So, what, to you, does "follow the ten commandments" mean?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Just as by following Jesus you can't do everything He did

quick tangent question.
perhaps wonderful and important to the people who do or who don't know.

Just specifically what is it that Jesus did, that His disciples did not or can not do, on earth ?

 

[1John2:4]

You have quoted from the OT hating falsehood. Therefore I am sure you would not reply with such.
Do you obey the law relating to the inner man? The law that only you and God know you break?
Do you delight I meditating on that law and fully complying with it?
No falsehood now!

ס Samek
113 I hate the double-minded,
But I love Your law.
114 You are my hiding place and my shield;
I hope in Your word.
115 Depart from me, you evildoers,
For I will keep the commandments of my God!
116 Uphold me according to Your word, that I may live;
And do not let me be ashamed of my hope.
117 Hold me up, and I shall be safe,
And I shall observe Your statutes continually.
118 You reject all those who stray from Your statutes,
For their deceit is falsehood.
119 You put away all the wicked of the earth like dross;
Therefore I love Your testimonies.
120 My flesh trembles for fear of You,
And I am afraid of Your judgments.

 

[Jim Langston]

But you do have to be perfect to be saved under the law. Did you not know that?
James2:10 Gal3:10&11

Who ever said anything about being saved under the law?

What do you think it means to "walk after the spirit?" Yes, it is required.

What do you think it means to "doeth the will of my [Jesus'] father in heaven?" Yes, it is required.

Romans 8:1 1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Do you simply ignore these verses or do you understand that we are not saved by works we can not continue to live in sin. Following the ten commandments is simply not living in sin.

That being said, following the ten commandments does not save us

 

[stuart lawrence]

Where or when did I ever say or imply perfect? Many, many, many times in this thread have I repeatedly said I am not talking about keeping the ten commandments perfectly. Many, many times people have said "you can't be perfect".

To you, what does it mean to follow Jesus? Do you? In the same vein, do you follow the ten commandments. Just as by following Jesus you can't do everything He did, you are aupposed to model your life after Him. Same with the ten commandments Novody can follow them perfectly as the bible states on numerous occasions. But we are supposed to model our lives after them.

So, what, to you, does "follow the ten commandments" mean?

You don't understand. You have stated we are saved if we obey the ten commandments. That means you are justified, which means declared righteous for heaven/ saved in Gods sight if we obey the law. You can only be justified under the law if you perfectly obey it. You cannot say. I try to obey the law but cannot perfectly obey it, but that's ok. It isn't. It is plainly stated in the bible

 

[stuart lawrence]

ס Samek
113 I hate the double-minded,
But I love Your law.
114 You are my hiding place and my shield;
I hope in Your word.
115 Depart from me, you evildoers,
For I will keep the commandments of my God!
116 Uphold me according to Your word, that I may live;
And do not let me be ashamed of my hope.
117 Hold me up, and I shall be safe,
And I shall observe Your statutes continually.
118 You reject all those who stray from Your statutes,
For their deceit is falsehood.
119 You put away all the wicked of the earth like dross;
Therefore I love Your testimonies.
120 My flesh trembles for fear of You,
And I am afraid of Your judgments.

Well you decided not to answer the question put, just ignore it rather than bear false testimony. So that's a positive thing.

 

[1John2:4]

Well you decided not to answer the question put, just ignore it rather than bear false testimony. So that's a positive thing.

ע Ayin
121 I have done justice and righteousness;
Do not leave me to my oppressors.
122 Be surety for Your servant for good;
Do not let the proud oppress me.
123 My eyes fail from seeking Your salvation
And Your righteous word.
124 Deal with Your servant according to Your mercy,
And teach me Your statutes.
125 I am Your servant;
Give me understanding,
That I may know Your testimonies.
126 It is time for You to act, O Lord,
For they have regarded Your law as void.
127 Therefore I love Your commandments
More than gold, yes, than fine gold!
128 Therefore all Your preceptsconcerning all things
I consider to be right;
I hate every false way.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Who ever said anything about being saved under the law?

What do you think it means to "walk after the spirit?" Yes, it is required.

What do you think it means to "doeth the will of my [Jesus'] father in heaven?" Yes, it is required.

Romans 8:1 1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Do you simply ignore these verses or do you understand that we are not saved by works we can not continue to live in sin. Following the ten commandments is simply not living in sin.

That being said, following the ten commandments does not save us

I was raised in a fundamentalist church, so I know where you are coming from. If( if) the new covenant only hinged on one core fact, Jesus dying for your sins, you would have a licence to sin under it. But the new covenant hinges on TWO core facts.
You are looking to the letter and striving to obey it to be saved. You state a person is saved if they obey the ten commandments. To keep stressing those commands is to look to the written law to obey. That is not Paul's Gospel. Just because laws are written down does not mean you in your heart want to obey them.
But God transferred the law he wants you to keep from an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts. That is being born again. You can no longer happily sin in ignorance, nor without conscience for the law is on your heart.
Every born again christian in their heart wants to obey God, for that is where the law is placed. They are acutely aware of their shortcomings. They cannot hide from them for the law is now in their most inward parts.
You do not get saved because you obey the ten commandments for you do not obey them to the standard set. You are saved because Jesus died for your sins( which is transgression of the law)
That does not, nor cannot give a born again christian a licence to sin, for in their heart they want to obey God.
Jesus can only be your saviour from din if you have been born again/ the law is written on your mind and placed on your heart. For he will be no ones saviour from sin unless they I their heart desire to live as his father wants them to live

 

[stuart lawrence]

ע Ayin
121 I have done justice and righteousness;
Do not leave me to my oppressors.
122 Be surety for Your servant for good;
Do not let the proud oppress me.
123 My eyes fail from seeking Your salvation
And Your righteous word.
124 Deal with Your servant according to Your mercy,
And teach me Your statutes.
125 I am Your servant;
Give me understanding,
That I may know Your testimonies.
126 It is time for You to act, O Lord,
For they have regarded Your law as void.
127 Therefore I love Your commandments
More than gold, yes, than fine gold!
128 Therefore all Your preceptsconcerning all things
I consider to be right;
I hate every false way.

I don't mean to be unkind. But you need to be able to explain scripture, not just quote it

 

[1John2:4]

I don't mean to be unkind. But you need to be able to explain scripture, not just quote it

I don't mean to be unkind. But you need to be able to explain scripture, not just quote it

Why do I need to explain, it is difficult to understand?

פ Pe
129 Your testimonies are wonderful;
Therefore my soul keeps them.
130 The entrance of Your words gives light;
It gives understanding to the simple.
131 I opened my mouth and panted,
For I longed for Your commandments.
132 Look upon me and be merciful to me,
As Your custom is toward those who love Your name.
133 Direct my steps by Your word,
And let no iniquity have dominion over me.
134 Redeem me from the oppression of man,
That I may keep Your precepts.
135 Make Your face shine upon Your servant,
And teach me Your statutes.
136 Rivers of water run down from my eyes,
Because men do not keep Your law.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

..moved..

 

[stuart lawrence]

Who ever said anything about being saved under the law?

What do you think it means to "walk after the spirit?" Yes, it is required.

What do you think it means to "doeth the will of my [Jesus'] father in heaven?" Yes, it is required.

Romans 8:1 1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Do you simply ignore these verses or do you understand that we are not saved by works we can not continue to live in sin. Following the ten commandments is simply not living in sin.

That being said, following the ten commandments does not save us

This is where so many churches in your denomination go wrong. If you say you are saved I you obey the ten commandments, naturally the flock will then judge if they are saved by obedience to the law. It goes on all the time sadly.
I know christian counsellors who spend much time with people who ended up in the state Paul the pharisee ended up in, in rom 7:7-11. I was one of them!!!
But I never understood grace in the church of my youth, only condemnation. For I knew if i could not obey the law on the inside of the cup I could not obey the holy, righteous and perfect law of God.
No one will get to heaven by obeying the ten commandments. Not me, you or anyone else

 

[stuart lawrence]

Why do I need to explain, it is difficult to understand?

פ Pe
129 Your testimonies are wonderful;
Therefore my soul keeps them.
130 The entrance of Your words gives light;
It gives understanding to the simple.
131 I opened my mouth and panted,
For I longed for Your commandments.
132 Look upon me and be merciful to me,
As Your custom is toward those who love Your name.
133 Direct my steps by Your word,
And let no iniquity have dominion over me.
134 Redeem me from the oppression of man,
That I may keep Your precepts.
135 Make Your face shine upon Your servant,
And teach me Your statutes.
136 Rivers of water run down from my eyes,
Because men do not keep Your law.

You know, there was a group of people in Jesus day That stressed the law must be obeyed. They knew the literal words of the then scriptures off by heart. They attended all the synagogue / church meetings. They tithed down to their last mint dill and cumun. They did good deeds that everyone could see. They would not gave gotten drunk, used foul language, had extra marital affairs, nor smoked I imagine if smoking had then been invented. They even laid flowers on the graves of the prophets murdered by their forefathers and said. We would never have acted as they did. But it was all to no avail. Jesus said they did not even know his father.
You see, Jesus reserved his harshest words for these people, for they did not practice what they preached/ demanded of others

 

[stuart lawrence]

Very weird.
How does being raised in any church
give you the right to presume where anyone is coming from
and to repeatedly bear false witness against anyone here based on hearsay from what you heard in the past ? ! ?

Who have I born false witness about?
He states he is in a fundamentalist church. I was raised in one. Have you ever been to one?
You have to have spent time in such a church to understand. If you have not, you cannot understand

 

[Jim Langston]

You don't understand. You have stated we are saved if we obey the ten commandments. That means you are justified, which means declared righteous for heaven/ saved in Gods sight if we obey the law. You can only be justified under the law if you perfectly obey it. You cannot say. I try to obey the law but cannot perfectly obey it, but that's ok. It isn't. It is plainly stated in the bible

No. I am not saying of you follow the ten commandments that saves you. I am not saying that anyone is saved by following the ten commandments.

What I am saying is that to become saved you must ask Jesus for forgiveness of your sins, accept Jesus as your Lord and savior and to repent of your sins. I do not believe there is anyone who disagrees that is the way to salvation. Now, what does it mean to repent? To turn away from sin, to try not to sin, to love thy neighbor as thyself. Following the ten commandments is repentance. If you continue to lie you have not repented of lying If you continue to murder, you have not repented of killing. We are told in the bible that those who continue in sin are not saved, are we not?

You tell me then. Must we repent of our sins to be saved? And if so, what does it mean to repent of your sins?

Repenting of our sins (following tje ten commandments, among others) does not save us, although the bible teaches us repenting of our sins, turning from them, is required for Jesus to cleanse if of our sins.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Who ever said anything about being saved under the law?

What do you think it means to "walk after the spirit?" Yes, it is required.

What do you think it means to "doeth the will of my [Jesus'] father in heaven?" Yes, it is required.

Romans 8:1 1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Do you simply ignore these verses or do you understand that we are not saved by works we can not continue to live in sin. Following the ten commandments is simply not living in sin.

That being said, following the ten commandments does not save us

I know exactly what you are trying to say:
Obeying the ten commandments does not save us. However, the christian must live as God desires them to. Therefore they must follow/ obey the ten commandments.
This goes to the heart of the problem.
It is impossible to state salvation hinges on obeying the ten commandments without actually placing a person under the law. But I doubt you are prepared to accept it.
I grew up in a church that preached Jesus died for your sins, the need to be born again and the baptism of the holy spirit. It was stressed the christian must obey Gods laws/ ref he ten commandments.
I could perfectly obey the law on the outside. I even tithed my money when I was young. At school I was laughed at for being a goody goody.
But there was a problem you see. I could not obey the ten commandments on the inside. The law only God knew if i broke. Now it was preached tv he law must be obeyed, christians had to live according to Gods principals/laws. I couldn't differentiate between the laws everyone could see obeyed on the outside, and law I could not obey on the inside. So what was I to do? I knew my sin acutely, and it hurt me. Now what do I do? I am failing to obey the ten commandments. According to what was preached I couldn't expect to go to heaven if I did not obey them. The stipulation was. Obey the law if you want to avoid hell. I was scared stiff, believe me. If even a fleeting impure thought came to me shock horror and fear came over me.
I had been a happy child and felt alive before I responded to an altar call, but not afterwards, for now I knew what sin was, for the law had been placed in my most inward parts.
Once I had felt alive without the law, but when the commandment came sin( consciousness) sprang to life and i died ( felt condemned) all manner of concupiscence was aroused me now I knew coveting was sin. The commandment I believed was ordained to give me life if I obeyed it, instead brought death( condemnation ) for I could not keep it. Sin, through the law brought condemnation to me. Yet I knew the problem was not the holy and righteous law of God but my sin.
Please read rom7:7-11 KJV. Paul is describing what happened to him when the law came to him, when he came of age to make a commitment to God as a young pharisee.
I had been raisedi in a christian church, and trued to attain heaven as Paul the pharisee tried to attain it, and i got the same result he got, as do so many others tragically.
Some people stress you must obey the ten commandments if you want to get to heaven, then excuse breaking them on the inside. I could not do that, for me it would have been hypocrisy
Paul wrote:
Fo ref sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law but under grace rom6:14

Which law fo you think he was referring to?
Not the legalistic law, that's for sure. Paul the pharisee could perfectly obey that law as a pharisee when he lived under a law of righteousness

 

[stuart lawrence]

No. I am not saying of you follow the ten commandments that saves you. I am not saying that anyone is saved by following the ten commandments.

What I am saying is that to become saved you must ask Jesus for forgiveness of your sins, accept Jesus as your Lord and savior and to repent of your sins. I do not believe there is anyone who disagrees that is the way to salvation. Now, what does it mean to repent? To turn away from sin, to try not to sin, to love thy neighbor as thyself. Following the ten commandments is repentance. If you continue to lie you have not repented of lying If you continue to murder, you have not repented of killing. We are told in the bible that those who continue in sin are not saved, are we not?

You tell me then. Must we repent of our sins to be saved? And if so, what does it mean to repent of your sins?

Repenting of our sins (following tje ten commandments, among others) does not save us, although the bible teaches us repenting of our sins, turning from them, is required for Jesus to cleanse if of our sins.

This is what you fail to grasp. On the one hand you say obeying the ten commandments doesn't save us, but if we don't obey them we cannot be saved.
According to Paul, for sin not to be your master, you must have a righteousness apart from observing the law. If you don't observe the law you sin.
That brings shock horror to you doesn't it? You think that to state such a thing is to preach a licence to sin. Just the opposite is true
Once I knew my soul righteousness in Gods sight was Christ dying for my sins, not obeying the law sin decreased in my life. Hence rom 6:14