Christianity... and the fact of evolution

[KWCrazy]

My best guess would be "if it agrees with science it's good" "if it disagrees with science it is myth".
This view is opposite to the biblical teaching which tells us:
1 Corinthians 2:5King James Version (KJV)

5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Not only that, science is very clear that the reanimation of a corpse three days dead is not possible. So if one believes in science and does not believe in the death and resurrection of Christ, then regardless of what they claim they are not part of the body of Christ. The Scriptures warn against this.
1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
James 4:4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
2 John 1: 9-11 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
2 Timothy: 3-16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Not only that, science is very clear that the reanimation of a corpse three days dead is not possible. So if one believes in science and does not believe in the death and resurrection of Christ, then regardless of what they claim they are not part of the body of Christ. The Scriptures warn against this.

Do you not understand that understanding science and supernatural are not mutually exclusive? You are making some seriously outrageous statements here that show a total lack of understanding that the two are not mutually exclusive. I can go out to the mountains that surround my valley , know how they were made (part of the ancient inland sea) and STILL see God's majesty in those mountains. I can still understand many things and see God's hand in it.

That's the problem with fundamentalism...adherents of this belief system are all or nothing, black/white thinkers. That's probably why I never did, never will understand it, nor will I ever adopt that particular belief system. It's great for the simple-minded...or those who wish to waste the intellect that God graciously bestowed on them.

 

[toLiJC]

Avoidance? Why can't you quote me? I would think that would be pretty easy.

sorry if you have not understood me

what did i say that you thought i have to quote you?!

i make no claims you are my debtor

Blessings

 

[Anguspure]

I grew up as an R.C. mostly in Scotland ,and although they really are christians, they have added an awful lot of stuff , like this 'stuff' , which most people in the Church would not have known anything about . This picture has nothing to do with the God of the bible and is a travesty .

You are of course correct in that the picture is innacurate in its portrayal of God however inspite of this I think it is a good commentary on mankinds atitude to Him.

 

[Anguspure]

Ahhh...the overworn "no true Scotsman" defense again. When are you going to understand that to understand the invisible, one looks to the visible. I find nearly nothing to admire in the behavior of Christians.

Que? The visible is God made visible in Christ Jesus.
It is Christ who we should follow, particularly where those others that we might become acquainted with are clearly not following Him.
I wouldn't be so harsh as to say that I find nearly nothing to admire in the behaviour of Christians, but I am dissapointed in the lack of supernatural empowerment.
I often observe more Agape style behaviour in the lives of the hard core anti-religous crowd that I live with than in the Christians that I encounter.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Que? The visible is God made visible in Christ Jesus.
It is Christ who we should follow, particularly where those others that we might become acquainted with are clearly not following Him.
I wouldn't be so harsh as to say that I find nearly nothing to admire in the behaviour of Christians, but I am dissapointed in the lack of supernatural empowerment.
I often observe more Agape style behaviour in the lives of the hard core anti-religous crowd that I live with than in the Christians that I encounter.

Ahh...but...where do you learn what Christ is like and how a follower of His is supposed to act? OTHER CHRISTIANS! I find Christian behavior, as a general whole, nothing to admire nor emulate.

If I'm looking for the attributes that Christ-followers SHOULD have, I look more towards my atheist, pagan and Buddhist friends. They show more TRUE Christian love and fellowship.

 

[Indent]

Not only that, science is very clear that the reanimation of a corpse three days dead is not possible. So if one believes in science and does not believe in the death and resurrection of Christ, then regardless of what they claim they are not part of the body of Christ. The Scriptures warn against this.
1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
James 4:4 You adulterous people! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
Colossians 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.
2 John 1: 9-11 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
2 Timothy: 3-16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.

The enterprise of science does NOT claim that the "reanimation of a corpse three days dead is not possible." The best a scientist could state is no such phenomenon has ever been observed (and verified), and based on our understandings, the chances of that happening are next to impossible.

But not impossible.

You might observe a hundred white swans, but there's no reason to conclude there are no black swans.

You don't understand the scientific enterprise.

Let me use another example: Suppose I conducted a sensitive experiment to verify the Law of Conservation of Energy. If I were to shine a light into the experiment, would that disprove the law? No, of course not. It would mean I compromised the experiment.

There might be consistent laws governing our universe (contrary to what some Christians think), but it's impossible to say there's no invisible agent. I can have full confidence in science and still believe Christ died and was resurrected.

It's not unreasonable to believe in God or miracles. But it's more reasonable to think Genesis is a myth and evolution happened. There's evidence to support both claims.

Let me go a step further because:

Calling Genesis a myth:

1. Does NOT preclude that God created the world
2. Does NOT preclude that Adam is a literal person
3. Does NOT diminish Paul's or the other NT authors theological statements
4. Does NOT change the nature of sin, or our relationship to God

etc. etc. etc.

It does, however, acknowledge that the Israelites used a different and sophisticated form of communication. There are myths that have factual details that are woven into them, but these are not journalistic accounts.

I'm more than comfortable calling evolution a fact, Genesis a myth, and believing Christ died and was resurrected in three days.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

I'm more than comfortable calling evolution a fact, Genesis a myth, and believing Christ died and was resurrected in three days.

I agree...and this is all a part of understanding the literary devices used across the writing of the bible.

The Genesis creation myths are how the ancient Israelites explained how the world got from nothing to something. The most important take from it is understanding that God set it into motion. The exact how is unimportant. At some point, primitive man evolved to a point where they came to UNDERSTAND that they possessed a soul (if you believe that) and started wondering about what laid beyond death. They created the myths to explain, to teach lessons, to attempt to understand. Does it mean that its a universal truth? No. The myth of Genesis doesn't leave out further scientific discoveries as to a factual history of life on earth.

Using the Bible as a literal scientific/historical text degrades the glory of God and the deeper spiritual meanings contained within those texts. If anything, it cheapens the text.

I prefer to read the bible for guidance, advice and to further define my beliefs. If I want to read a science book or history book, I'll go elsewhere.

**I'm done for the night. I just got done making up 5 powerpoint presentations for my students and my brain is now jello.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

First, let's see what the KJV says.

14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

Note that he is specific in 14: I baptized NONE OF YOU [Corinthians] EXCEPT Crispus and Gaius

I also notice you inserted an interpretive word, there, "[Corinthians]". Why did you do that? Why are you adding to scripture?
Otherwise, your post does nothing to change what I posted and so I wonder why you even posted it.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Do you believe in heresy? Are there opinions and beliefs so far out
that they cannot be accepted under the umbrella of God fearer or
Christian? I'm not asking in regard to anyone or any ideas presented
in this forum. Just if you take your statement at face value, anything
is acceptable, which turns all scripture on its head.

But . . . but . . . . but . . . . what about evidence? What about logic? Because if you cannot trust evidence and logic, then you have no reason to trust scripture, because only some form of evidence and logic can lead you to trust scripture.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

But . . . but . . . . but . . . . what about evidence? What about logic? Because if you cannot trust evidence and logic, then you have no reason to trust scripture, because only some form of evidence and logic can lead you to trust scripture.

Evidence - bible
Logic - worldly

Just read it, accept it and go on. Check your intellect at the door, be prepared for circular arguments and the "no true Scotsman" defense and you'll have it made.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Evidence - bible
Logic - worldly

Just read it, accept it and go on. Check your intellect at the door, be prepared for circular arguments and the "no true Scotsman" defense and you'll have it made.

People may read my signature bible quote below this post and find there the answer as to why I know their bible interpretations are nothing to be afraid of when they reject evolution and the known age of the earth. It is perfectly biblical to not be afraid of such posters.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

People may read my signature bible quote below this post and find there the answer as to why I know their bible interpretations are nothing to be afraid of when they reject evolution and the known age of the earth. It is perfectly biblical to not be afraid of such posters.

Who's afraid? I have no "fear" of these people...I actually find them to be pitied.

I'm headed to bed...I spent all day today making up power point presentations and quizzes for my students and my brain is now jello. I need to be bright-eyed and bushy tailed for my 8am class tomorrow. I've told my students that instructors are just as not crazy about 8am classes as they are...they know that Ms. X. is not properly caffienated until 8:30. My 10am class is MUCH better.

 

[Anguspure]

Ahh...but...where do you learn what Christ is like and how a follower of His is supposed to act?

The act of laying down His life is known from the Apostles writing about him as are a number of other details about His life, and you can learn from Him directly if you belong to Him.

If I'm looking for the attributes that Christ-followers SHOULD have, I look more towards my atheist, pagan and Buddhist friends. They show more TRUE Christian love and fellowship.

Unfortunately this too is my observation. Even much the maligned Muslims that I've encountered seem to be, on the whole, a lot more peaceful and community oriented than the religous Christian group.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

The act of laying down His life is known from the Apostles writing about him as are a number of other details about His life, and you can learn from Him directly if you belong to Him.

Yeah, I read that...but I can't see his "followers" doing that...heck, they'll spit on the homeless man on the street. So, are his "followers" REALLY his "followers" if they can't bring themselves to emulate the one they claim to follow. Remember, the word "Christian" literally means "Christ follower". Don't see much of that.

Unfortunately this too is my observation. Even much the maligned Muslims that I've encountered seem to be, on the whole, a lot more peaceful and community oriented than the religous Christian group.

And the atheists, pagans, Buddhists, Hindus, Ba'hais, and virtually any other religious group. So...it gives the lie to those who claim to follow the one who said "Love one another as I have loved you"...

So...pretty much, I no longer publicly identify myself as a Christian. Don't want to be identified with such an ugly group of people.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Yeah, I read that...but I can't see his "followers" doing that...heck, they'll spit on the homeless man on the street. So, are his "followers" REALLY his "followers" if they can't bring themselves to emulate the one they claim to follow. Remember, the word "Christian" literally means "Christ follower". Don't see much of that.



And the atheists, pagans, Buddhists, Hindus, Ba'hais, and virtually any other religious group. So...it gives the lie to those who claim to follow the one who said "Love one another as I have loved you"...

So...pretty much, I no longer publicly identify myself as a Christian. Don't want to be identified with such an ugly group of people.

If what you say about your public identification is true then I suggest you change your id here at CF and cease posting in the Christian areas of the forum and start posting in the alternative theology section (or whatever its current designation is). Just a suggestion.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

If what you say about your public identification is true then I suggest you change your id here at CF and cease posting in the Christian areas of the forum and start posting in the alternative theology section (or whatever its current designation is). Just a suggestion.

How about not a suggestion I'll take!!!

 

[bbbbbbb]

How about not a suggestion I'll take!!!

Not a problem for me. Just don't go around telling folks that you no longer identify yourself publicly as a Christian.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Not a problem for me. Just don't go around telling folks that you no longer identify yourself publicly as a Christian.

Why? Because I don't want to be identified with a group of people whom I believe to be essentially a bunch of lying, repulsive, narrow-minded, anti-intellectual, racist bigots?

I prefer the term "believer". But on the flip side...I don't give one whit what you think.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Why? Because I don't want to be identified with a group of people whom I believe to be essentially a bunch of lying, repulsive, narrow-minded, anti-intellectual, racist bigots?

I prefer the term "believer". But on the flip side...I don't give one whit what you think.

Why are you so angry?