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Once Saved, Always Saved?

Do you agree with OSAS (Once Saved, Always Saved)?

  • Yes

  • No


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dqhall

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A vineyard must be pruned every winter before the vines leaf out. It cannot be pruned once for all time.

Benjamin Franklin wrote, "Many words will not fill a harvest bucket (paraphrased)."
From a Chinese fortune cookie: "He who waits for roast duck to fly into mouth; starves."

Matthew 21:28 But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first, and said, 'Son, go work today in my vineyard.' 29 He answered, 'I will not,' but afterward he changed his mind, and went. 30 He came to the second, and said the same thing. He answered, 'I go, sir,' but he didn't go. 31 Which of the two did the will of his father?" They said to him, "The first." Jesus said to them, "Most certainly I tell you that the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering into the Kingdom of God before you. 32 For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you didn't believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes believed him. When you saw it, you didn't even repent afterward, that you might believe him.
 
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CodyFaith

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  1. Yes
    11 vote(s)
    42.3%
  2. No
    15 vote(s)
    57.7%

    :( Jesus is the Passover Lamb. Those who look on him and believe are safe, just as Moses held up the bronze serpent in the desert and those who looked on him were healed.
    Those who the blood of the Lamb is on their "account" are saved.
 
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PanDeVida

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John 10:27-29 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

So true no man can snatch a soul from the fathers hands, however, the soul itself can snatch his own self, from the Fathers hands, therefore "Once Saved All Ways Saved", is a lie that satan wants all christians to believe.

In other words no man is able to, but the Father never said YOU can't. Thus the reason why not all who say Lord Lord will be saved.
 
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(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

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Does God grant everyone the ability to come to Jesus?
John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
I love that scripture and it is absolutely correct. There is no doubt in my mind that the elect with be drawn to Christ through His effectual calling and will be saved. However we cannot simply deny the fact that there is a general call to everyone (Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20). Is this general call not "granted by the Father"? Undoubtably it is! So why then is it not possible for someone who is un-elected who has not experienced His effectual call choose to follow His general call and be saved?
 
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1John2:4

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So true no man can snatch a soul from the fathers hands, however, the soul itself can snatch his own self, from the Fathers hands, therefore "Once Saved All Ways Saved", is a lie that satan wants all christians to believe.

In other words no man is able to, but the Father never said YOU can't. Thus the reason why not all who say Lord Lord will be saved.
Just like Balam could not curse Isreal, however they were led away with temptation into Idolatry.
 
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VanillaSunflowers

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I am asking you. Assuming everything you are saying is accurate and christians cannot sin because all sin has been imputed, why the warning about deliberate sin? What does Hebrews 10:26-31 mean?
In simple terms? If we keep on deliberately sinning we're not actually saved.
 
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aiki

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I am asking you. Assuming everything you are saying is accurate and christians cannot sin because all sin has been imputed, why the warning about deliberate sin? What does Hebrews 10:26-31 mean?

I didn't say Christians cannot sin. I don't think I even came close to implying it, either. What I did point out was that the atonement for all sin - past, present, and future - has been made by the perfect sacrifice of Christ on the cross. Christ's perfect righteousness is imputed to us, but our justification thereby is a forensic thing. I may be clothed in the righteousness of Christ but that no more makes me a perfect, sinless person than being clothed in a bear-skin coat makes me a real bear. Paul writes about this at length (See Romans 7 & 8; Galatians 5:17) Being justified before God through Christ does not make me sinless or incapable of sin. Far from it.

I don't believe the passage from Hebrews 10 that you referenced is talking about genuine believers, genuine disciples of Christ. It seems only to be saying what is quite obvious: If one hears and understands the Gospel and rejects it, there is no other way to be reconciled to God. One who has spurned the one and only way of salvation stands inevitably under the terrible wrath of God. There is no saved-and-lost doctrine taught in the passage.

Selah.
 
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Vicomte13

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Rev 2:1,2,4-5, 7 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write...I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars. ...Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent....To him that overcometh will I give to eat...

Rev 2:8, 10, 11 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write...be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev 2:12,13,16,17 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write...I know thy works...Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth...To him that overcometh will I give...He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat

Rev 2:18,19,23,25-26, 29 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write...I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, ; and the last to be more than the first. ... And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. ... But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations...He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 3:1,2,3; 5; 6 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write...Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. ... He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life,...He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 3:7, 8; 10, 11, 12, 13 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write...I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. ... Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, ... hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, ... He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 3:14-17, 19,20, 21, 22 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write...I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich,... As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent....Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne...He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

The answer to the question is all here, and repeated seven times in a row, by Jesus Christ, ascended, from the very throne room of Heaven. Moreover, this is direct dictation. There is nothing more authoritative or final than this in the Bible.

First, he is speaking to CHURCHES. He is not speaking to acolytes, to those who are just coming into the faith. He is speaking to the established Christians, to people who are the organized body of Christ. He's not speaking to false churches, but to the REAL churches, the ones that he himself CALLS "churches" without qualification. He calls false organizations "the synagogues of Satan" in some places here. He's not being coy. These are REAL Christians he is addressing.

The first thing that is clear - because he repeats it over and over and over again, is that he, God, judges men, CHRISTIAN men, people already in the faith BY THEIR WORKS. That is the standard by which he is judging these Christians throughout the entirety of this long and detailed passages. Jesus Christ judges seven Churches by their works. He speaks of their faith, but it is NOT ENOUGH. He is judging them by their WORKS, by what they DO, not simply by what they believe.

Let he who has ears, hear.

The next thing that is crystal clear, and repetitively hammered forth here, by Jesus, giving dictation, from the Throne Room of Heaven, as the LAST WORD in the Bible - is that these real churches had real faith, but they are falling away from it. And they are in danger of being cast down, cast aside, spewed out of the mouth. Jesus exhorts them to OVERCOME, and says that IF, but ONLY IF, they overcome, THEN they will have the various rewards.

So real Christians, in real Churches, really pleasing to God, have become DISPLEASING to God, BECAUSE their WORKS are not good, and they are not persisting in doing the WORKS, and SO THEREFORE, because of the bad works, because of what they are doing, they are in danger of losing their salvation and being cast out. Only if they - those men - of their OWN will and effort, DO something: OVERCOME, only then will they have their heavenly rewards that he promises. If they don't do that work that he commands, to persevere and overcome, they will lose their salvation.

They WERE saved, but they have to KEEP THE WORKS in order to STAY saved.

Jesus says this so very clearly, really HAMMERS IT HOME again, and again and again and again and again. Seven times in a row, with repetitive language.

And he exhorts everybody: He who has ears, HEAR.

I cannot understand how anybody has even the slightest doubt about the necessity of works, or the need to endure in the faith and works TO THE END, or the fact that if a man falls away, he loses salvation. Jesus Christ, enthroned as God SAYS IT seven times in a row, in as many different ways as it is possible to say.

I cannot understand why men even WANT to presume to put up an argument against this.

I do wonder who the "Nikolaitans" are, that he hates so much. I know that "Niko-", and "Nike" mean "victory" or "triumphant" in Greek, and "laitans" are generally the "people of". So, Nikolaitans, read as a word that doesn't refer to a place, means "Victory People" or "People of Triumph".

Given that Jesus, in Heaven, giving dictation, so RELENTLESSLY pounds down the doctrine of the necessity of works, and the ability to lose salvation and be cast aside if one does not persist in the works to overcome, I do wonder if the "Nikolaitans" whom he detests are the ones who say that they've ALREADY won the victory, ALREADY won the crown, merely by being his follower, by becoming part of the Church, by coming to believe in him.

All of the true Churches DID believe in them, that's why we doesn't call them liars. But he makes it crystal clear that belief and faith are BY NO MEANS ENOUGH. Without works, and overcoming TO THE END, Jesus says he will spit you out and you will lose your salvation.

So don't be one of those out there preaching that you've ALREADY WON THE VICTORY - a "Niko-layman" - simply because you recognize the rather obvious reality that Jesus is the Son of God, and that following him means that you will have eternally life.

He says point blank here, seven times, to thousands of people, that that is not true. Only if you continue your works, all the way to the end, is that true.

There is no other way to read this plain text. I am amazed that people are so stubborn about it. But those who have hears really do need to HEAR what Jesus is saying here. It's not subtle.

No, if you're saved, it is not enough. You have to keep working at it all the way to the end of your life.

Elsewhere, he said "What good does it do you to say you follow me if you do not keep my commandments?"

Here, he answers the question: None. He says out loud that he BLOTS NAMES OUT of the Book of Life. Those names WERE there, but HE blots them out, because of their works or lack thereof! Because of what they do!

So, don't be a Nikolaitan. Do what he said. Check your pride and correct your doctrine to conform with what he said.

(And please don't quote Paul to try to overrule God Jesus, enthroned in Heaven, giving dictation to the last living Apostle. Please, just submit to God and take his words at face value. Don't kill yourself through pride, submit, repent, obey and win the crown, the stone, the manna, the log of life.)

 
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Jezmeyah

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I gave my answer on the basis of my experience, I got saved at a young age, but I had not been founded enough so I wandered away in practice and for awhile lived like the world, but there came a time in my life when I returned to that salvation that I'd received at a young age.. and have continued to walk in it eversince. So for me, once saved IS always saved.

As for anyone else, the only example I think of where a truly saved person can by their own choice walk away permanently from God is in Hebrews 6.. that would compare with Jn.15:6

Shalom,

Read John 15:1-6, now look at the following verses:

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the vintner. 2 He cuts off every branch that does not produce fruit in me, and he cuts back every branch that does produce fruit, so that it might produce more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of what I’ve spoken to you.

4 Abide in me, and I will abide in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. The one who abides in me while I abide in him produces much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. 6 Unless a person abides in me, he is thrown away like a pruned branch and dries up. People gather such branches, throw them into a fire, and they are burned up.
Now, read Romans 11:17-22 then think about the following:

17 Now if some of the branches have been broken off, and you, a wild olive branch, have been grafted in their place to share the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not boast about being better than the other branches. If you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were cut off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 That’s right! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you remain only because of faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid! 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he certainly will not spare you, either.

22
Consider, then, the kindness and severity of God: his severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness toward you—if you continue receiving his kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off.


In John's gospel, the plant is a vine plant and we are branches and Yeshua is the vine. In Romans the plant is a fig tree and it is speaking of Israel as a body and implies that it is Yeshua. In both parables, we are the branches and in both parables we are in the Messiah and partake of the life of the plant which is THE HOLY SPIRIT. In both parables, the branches that have no fruit are cut off.

This implies quite clearly and without contradiction that a saved person with the SPIRIT OF GOD can be cut off.

Now, read Revelation 3:5 and ask yourself why Yeshua mentions not being blotted out of the book of life. Because it is possible to be blotted out.

5 The person who overcomes in this way will wear white clothes, and I will never erase his name from the Book of Life. I will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and his angels.

The question we must now ask ourselves is:
Do we still believe that we cannot lose our salvation after being given THE SPIRIT OF GOD? If so, what does the above verses mean if not what it says?
 
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DoubtfulSalvation

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So true no man can snatch a soul from the fathers hands, however, the soul itself can snatch his own self, from the Fathers hands, therefore "Once Saved All Ways Saved", is a lie that satan wants all christians to believe.

In other words no man is able to, but the Father never said YOU can't. Thus the reason why not all who say Lord Lord will be saved.

I like the way you perform surgery on scripture there. That soul you refer to still belongs to a man and still falls under the no man can snatch you out of my fathers hand. But, there's always purgatory and candles right? I wouldn't worry about it.
 
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Widlast

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Can I be 75% lazy and retain my salvation? How about 25% lazy? How arrogant can I get before I lose my salvation?
How many sins will it take for me to lose my salvation? 'Cause when I sin I'm not following Jesus. How much good workd do I need to do?
It never ceases to amaze me, the pointless responses people can make to a post.
Do you think that was clever?
 
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Ladyghosthunter

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I was baptized twice. I was truly saved by God when I entered the Catholic Church at the lowest point in my life. There I had an angelic experience I will never forget.
I've had some really wonderful miracles happen to me and I believe that Jesus and God sent them to me to say, "Don't worry, I've got you."
 
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Jezmeyah

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[Staff edit]

You seem to be implying that a person must earn their salvation.. however, that is not the case. Salvation is a gift received by God's grace through faith. It is not something to be earned. And certainly not by speaking Hebrew. To speak is to learn, to learn is a work,.. no one is saved by works. You could know the Hebrew language fluently and still not get anything out of it that brings you to salvation.. as evidenced by the men in the last chapter of Acts.

The gospel is.. 'your sins are forgiven you.' Believe it in your heart and make confession in faith of receipt, unto salvation. Your sincerity determines the reality of conversion.
 
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Winken

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Shalom,

Read John 15:1-6, now look at the following verses:

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the vintner. 2 He cuts off every branch that does not produce fruit in me, and he cuts back every branch that does produce fruit, so that it might produce more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of what I’ve spoken to you.

4 Abide in me, and I will abide in you. Just as the branch cannot produce fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. The one who abides in me while I abide in him produces much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing. 6 Unless a person abides in me, he is thrown away like a pruned branch and dries up. People gather such branches, throw them into a fire, and they are burned up.
Now, read Romans 11:17-22 then think about the following:

17 Now if some of the branches have been broken off, and you, a wild olive branch, have been grafted in their place to share the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not boast about being better than the other branches. If you boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were cut off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 That’s right! They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you remain only because of faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid! 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he certainly will not spare you, either.

22
Consider, then, the kindness and severity of God: his severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness toward you—if you continue receiving his kindness. Otherwise, you too will be cut off.


In John's gospel, the plant is a vine plant and we are branches and Yeshua is the vine. In Romans the plant is a fig tree and it is speaking of Israel as a body and implies that it is Yeshua. In both parables, we are the branches and in both parables we are in the Messiah and partake of the life of the plant which is THE HOLY SPIRIT. In both parables, the branches that have no fruit are cut off.

This implies quite clearly and without contradiction that a saved person with the SPIRIT OF GOD can be cut off.

Now, read Revelation 3:5 and ask yourself why Yeshua mentions not being blotted out of the book of life. Because it is possible to be blotted out.

5 The person who overcomes in this way will wear white clothes, and I will never erase his name from the Book of Life. I will acknowledge his name in the presence of my Father and his angels.

The question we must now ask ourselves is:
Do we still believe that we cannot lose our salvation after being given THE SPIRIT OF GOD? If so, what does the above verses mean if not what it says?

This has been discussed, argued, debated for the past 2,000 years. It is all over the internet. Just google OSAS. The fact is that the scripture quoted, above, is wholly out of context. OSAS is an unchanging promise that will never be revoked for the authentic Christian Believer. Romans 10:8-13 is not conditional. It is SHALL! Romans 8:1 is not conditional. It is an irrevocable PROMISE!

Get over it! Celebrate! Rejoice!
 
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Albion

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Why do you keep saying this?
That's because you asked for further explanation from me after I made my prior post.

Jason_delisle said:
Explain why that is the case.

Can God not elect people to be saved for a purpose and not give everyone else an opportunity to be saved?
But that's is not what we mean when we speak of the Elect. "Elect" in this case (or "Election") refers to being chosen to receive saving faith. God does also sometimes tap people for special work, but that's not what this term means when we are discussing "OSAS."

I never once said or implied that God will save everyone "regardless of anything and everything".
Very well, but my opinion is that God does not both Elect some to salvation and also offer salvation to every else.

Please show me something in scripture that specifically says that there is no opportunity for someone to be saved and that it is only the elect who will be saved.
The fact that there are any Elect suggests that there is predestination.
 
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Geralt

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dead to sin

I love that scripture and it is absolutely correct. There is no doubt in my mind that the elect with be drawn to Christ through His effectual calling and will be saved. However we cannot simply deny the fact that there is a general call to everyone (Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20). Is this general call not "granted by the Father"? Undoubtably it is! So why then is it not possible for someone who is un-elected who has not experienced His effectual call choose to follow His general call and be saved?
 
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Geralt

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it doesnt say they were saved.

I gave my answer on the basis of my experience, I got saved at a young age, but I had not been founded enough so I wandered away in practice and for awhile lived like the world, but there came a time in my life when I returned to that salvation that I'd received at a young age.. and have continued to walk in it eversince. So for me, once saved IS always saved.

As for anyone else, the only example I think of where a truly saved person can by their own choice walk away permanently from God is in Hebrews 6.. that would compare with Jn.15:6
 
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DoubtfulSalvation

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I think this may be concitered gloating and flaming. Let's be consitrate of other members after all we are all brothers and sisters in Christ right?

If you conciter (consider btw) this to be flaming and gloating (goading), than by all means report it. I never insulted any one person, but I did express my opinion about the Bible. Poor old little Bible, will it ever recover? =(
 
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