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How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?
- Thread starter bottomofsandal
- Start date
This is where you are totally wrong.
The Law condemns us. God redeems His children from the condemnation of the law. God purchased my freedom, but you wish to force everyone to live under the law and win their own salvation.
Why would anyone want to follow your works based, law and rules enforced doctrine, which condemns grace?
No, I preach the good news of God's grace and sovereignty given to those whom He wills.
Read the Bible, Ew, and stop condemning the good news.
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- Apr 5, 2007
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Were not many people invited to the wedding, but many did not attend? Now that kind of ruins Calvinism's story, doesn't it? If more are called/invited then come?
That parable shows that many are called to salvation that do not choose to come. Seems like some free-will to me.
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Did God make a mistake in Ephesians 1?
"In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will"
Ew, you are fighting against God's word, not me.
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Paul gives a salutation in all his letters. So that's nothing that says anything. Maybe read the salutations so you know how Paul does it for next time.
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LOL, explain the "salutation" away when God says he predestines.
It is clear that you can't stand the fact that God is fully in control and you aren't. This becomes an issue of Lordship when you deny God's word in order to pat yourself on the back for being so wise and smart in your imagined choice.
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First, by your statement, you are saying that only the four gospels speak the truth and you reject the epistles as not teaching the "true" gospel. In so doing you have crossed over to a false teaching that all Christians soundly reject. Do you care to clarify?
Jesus says that he chose.
John 15:15-19
[15]I no longer call you slaves, because a master doesn’t confide in his slaves. Now you are my friends, since I have told you everything the Father told me.
[16]You didn’t choose me. I chose you. I appointed you to go and produce lasting fruit, so that the Father will give you whatever you ask for, using my name.
[17]This is my command: Love each other.
[18]“If the world hates you, remember that it hated me first.
[19]The world would love you as one of its own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world, so it hates you.
I notice you are desperate to move the goal posts again in your desperate attempt to be right, despite the overwhelming am out of Scripture that teaches God's act of choosing his children.
I can play that game.
Show me one verse where the phrase "free will" is stated. (You, of course, realize there is no verse anywhere in the Bible and especially not in the four gospels, the seemingly only text you accept as God inspired.)
Ew, it is clear that you hate the truth of God's word and desire to replace it with your own made up message. So be it.
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Show me what in the saltation verse is about predestination? Seems you think every verse talks predestination, even the ones who don't.
ANother thing, don't start with the downgrading comments, people that are not Calvinists support God as being God. Don't act like it's something special to Calvinists.
For some reason you need to downgrade the beliefs of anyone who doesn't disagree with you. That doesn't sound humble to me. Nor is it humble according to God's Word. So look at yourself and remove the plank from your eye before looking at others. That is in the Bible.
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I already shared Ephesians 1. Explain how predestination, choosing and adoption have nothing to do with salvation in this passage.
I challenge your unwillingness to let God's word speak as it plainly does.
Even now you are desperately trying to get around the very clear message of Ephesians 1.
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EmSw
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First off Minno, anyone who says they preach the gospel, their gospel is judged according to the gospel Jesus preached. We don't judge Jesus' gospel by anyone else's gospel. Jesus' gospel is first and foremost.
Second, if anyone's gospel is truth, IT MUST SAY what Jesus preached. If it says anything in addition, then we are within our rights to judge what is written and test it to see if it justified by what Jesus taught.
Do you agree with this?
I will have more time later, but for now I'll be waiting for you to find where Jesus said anything about predestination.
In the meantime, I will leave you with these passages to show free will is mentioned in the Bible. If you like, please show us how predestination fits into these passages.
Deuteronomy 30
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the Lord thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20 That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the Lordsware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
Will you let God's word speak as plainly as it does?
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Is Jesus God?
Is all scripture given by inspiration of God?
What text, does Jesus provide to substantiate your argument so that you can dismiss the epistles out of hand as you do?
Secondly, we have shown you Jesus words, yet you choose to reject them.
There I is no help for the Blind eyes and deaf ears if God does not open them.
There is no more need for you to respond. You continually move the goal posts to avoid God's word and create new restrictions.
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EmSw
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Definitely!
Every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God is (Matthew 4:4).
Matthew 18:16
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
I reject no words of Jesus; don't be a false witness.
Live according to God's word, and they shall be unstopped and opened.
Don't be like the others and leave. I've given you passages which state man has free will to choose life or death. If this is too difficult for you, then I guess, you had better leave than confront the truth.
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The LAW was a ministry of condemnation, it points to Christ, the ministry of righteousness by faith as vastly superior.
So yeah, let's look at God's NEW Covenant as the only one that matters regarding salvation now and forever.
2 Corinthians 3New King James Version (NKJV)
Christ’s Epistle
3 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? Or do we need, as some others, epistles of commendation to you or letters of commendation from you? 2 You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.
The Spirit, Not the Letter
4 And we have such trust through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Glory of the New Covenant
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
12 Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech—13 unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
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