How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?

[ToBeLoved]

All ya all? [emoji41]

I'm turning in for the night. Goodnight, but we can continue tomorrow.

 

[ToBeLoved]

5 Then Jerusalem and all Judea and all the region about the Jordan were going out to him,
6 and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins. - Matthew 3:5-6

So do you think that every single person in Judes went to see John?

Two very different things. That is your theology?

 

[Hammster]

I'll take that as a no.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I'll take that as a no.

It means all of the area. But it is still all and it shows that God is talking about all of the area of Judea.

Better theology is needed. Big difference between an area of land and all people.

 

[Hank77]

5 Then Jerusalem and all Judea and all the region about the Jordan were going out to him,
6 and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins. - Matthew 3:5-6

So do you think that every single person in Judes went to see John?

Joh 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son--the only begotten--He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

Now I know what Calvin taught that 'world' in this verse means Gentiles as well as Jews and that 'everyone' means people that are Gentiles as well as Jews. That He was teaching that Jews were not the only ones that God loves.

However, maybe it would be helpful to remember that Jesus said to love our enemies as ourselves, to bless them and not curse them. How could God expect men to love their enemies if He doesn't love His? Just where would we get the power to do that? I purpose that God loves the Whole world.
From Calvinist John MacArthur's, Grace to You, website....
http://www.gty.org/blog/B110706/does-god-love-his-enemies

 

[Hammster]

It means all of the area. But it is still all and it shows that God is talking about all of the area of Judea.

Better theology is needed. Big difference between an area of land and all people.

So at least in one context, all doesn't mean every single person.

That's a start.

 

[Hammster]

Joh 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son--the only begotten--He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

Now I know what Calvin taught that 'world' in this verse means Gentiles as well as Jews and that 'everyone' means people that are Gentiles as well as Jews. That He was teaching that Jews were not the only ones that God loves.

However, maybe it would be helpful to remember that Jesus said to love our enemies as ourselves, to bless them and not curse them. How could God expect men to love their enemies if He doesn't love His? Just where would we get the power to do that? I purpose that God loves the Whole world.
From Calvinist John MacArthur's, Grace to You, website....
http://www.gty.org/blog/B110706/does-god-love-his-enemies

Does God love the whole world in the same way? Because that verse says that God only saves those who are believing.

 

[bottomofsandal]

Now that is a terrible thought. I cannot say how much I dislike this doctrine and what it says to people.

Isn't this HYPER-Calvinism?
Is there a modern contemporary famous preacher who has this troublesome message?

 

[bottomofsandal]

Does God love the whole world in the same way?

Good point. Do all humans love everyone equally?
I may love your family, but I love my family more.
Is this wrong? Does God have favorites or intimates?

 

[Hammster]

Good point. Do all humans love everyone equally?
I may love your family, but I love my family more.
Is this wrong? Does God have favorites or intimates?

I love my kids and my wife. But my wife gets a different love than my kids.

 

[EmSw]

So at least in one context, all doesn't mean every single person.

That's a start.

Let's look at John 3 through the 'context lens' of the elect.

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

In verse 17, we see God did not send His Son into the 'elect' world to condemn them. We need to ask to whom was Jesus sent? We know Jesus was sent to the lost sheep house of Israel (Matthew 15:24). This would include every Pharisee, scribe, and Jew. So we would expect these 'elect' to believe and have everlasting life. Remember, the Calvinist believe Jesus was talking about world of elect to believe and have everlasting life.

But we see that not all to whom Jesus came, received Him (John 1:11). Even some of His own, that is, His elect, did not receive Him.

Then, in verse 18, we read of the elect, that IF they believe, they are not condemned, BUT, if they do not believe, they are condemned. So, we have the elect who are not condemned and those who are condemned.

In verse 19, we see the condemnation of the elect. Notice it is based upon SOMETHING they MUST DO. Not only do they have to believe, but they MUST COME TO THE LIGHT. They must DO something, and not be a passive player in the game. If they practice evil, and Calvinists will tell you every unsaved person does, they will not come to the Light (v. 20).

ONLY THOSE WHO DO THE TRUTH, come to the Light. Ask any Calvinist who does the truth before regeneration, and they will tell you NO ONE! So, according to Calvinists belief, no one can come to the Light, therefore, according to Jesus, no one can be regenerated if He believed the Calvinist dogma.

If one believes a lie long enough, the truth will finally overcome the lie and leave its followers in condemnation.

 

[MennoSota]

Let's look at John 3 through the 'context lens' of the elect.

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

In verse 17, we see God did not send His Son into the 'elect' world to condemn them. We need to ask to whom was Jesus sent? We know Jesus was sent to the lost sheep house of Israel (Matthew 15:24). This would include every Pharisee, scribe, and Jew. So we would expect these 'elect' to believe and have everlasting life. Remember, the Calvinist believe Jesus was talking about world of elect to believe and have everlasting life.

But we see that not all to whom Jesus came, received Him (John 1:11). Even some of His own, that is, His elect, did not receive Him.

Then, in verse 18, we read of the elect, that IF they believe, they are not condemned, BUT, if they do not believe, they are condemned. So, we have the elect who are not condemned and those who are condemned.

In verse 19, we see the condemnation of the elect. Notice it is based upon SOMETHING they MUST DO. Not only do they have to believe, but they MUST COME TO THE LIGHT. They must DO something, and not be a passive player in the game. If they practice evil, and Calvinists will tell you every unsaved person does, they will not come to the Light (v. 20).

ONLY THOSE WHO DO THE TRUTH, come to the Light. Ask any Calvinist who does the truth before regeneration, and they will tell you NO ONE! So, according to Calvinists belief, no one can come to the Light, therefore, according to Jesus, no one can be regenerated if He believed the Calvinist dogma.

If one believes a lie long enough, the truth will finally overcome the lie and leave its followers in condemnation.

Well, that was a whole bunch of nonsense. Care to try again?

Ew, you can keep on believing that you are in control of your salvation if you wish, but cease from saying the Bible does not teach predestination and God's sovereign choosing. You are wrong. I have asked you to look at all the places where God talks about people being chosen. I have shared Ephesians 1 and 2, Romans 9 and I have pointed out that the majority of the epistles start with the author speaking to the chosen. Why do you ignore God's word when it is so plainly before you?

 

[EmSw]

How many verses does it take where God declares chosen and predestined before you'll believe him?

So, were you predestined to a works-based theology, or to the Calvinist theology?

Were you predestined to be darkness or light?

Ephesians 5:8
For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.

 

[EmSw]

Well, that was a whole bunch of nonsense. Care to try again?

Ew, you can keep on believing that you are in control of your salvation if you wish, but cease from saying the Bible does not teach predestination and God's sovereign choosing. You are wrong. I have asked you to look at all the places where God talks about people being chosen. I have shared Ephesians 1 and 2, Romans 9 and I have pointed out that the majority of the epistles start with the author speaking to the chosen. Why do you ignore God's word when it is so plainly before you?

I know the word of God is nonsense to you when it doesn't agree with you. Do you want Jesus to try again, and make His words more Calvinist friendly?

I will say this again, if you believe in predestination, you must play the predestination lottery. You have no idea if you are chosen or not. Yes, you can put yourself on predestination pedestal, but what you do, means nothing. Yes, you can cite all the Bible you want, but if you did not come to the Light as Jesus taught, the very words of Jesus become your judge.

 

[MennoSota]

So, were you predestined to a works-based theology, or to the Calvinist theology?

Were you predestined to be darkness or light?

Ephesians 5:8
For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord.

We are all dead in our trespasses and sins.
Ew, have you ever seen a dead man? Have they ever come alive by their own volition? How can a dead man come to life? Does it not take God's work of causing life?
Read Ephesians 2:4. "But God made us alive..."

In summary. We were dead in our sins but God made us alive.

God chooses whom He wills to make alive. A dead man can't choose.

When Lazerus was in the tomb, what did it take for him to be made alive?
It took God saying, " Lazerus, come forth."
Only Lazerus was raised that day. It wasn't every dead person. God chooses whom He wills by His sovereign choice. No one knows why he chooses one and not another (Read Romans 9). The King makes the decisions. The subjects live with the King's decision.

 

[Hammster]

We know Jesus was sent to the lost sheep house of Israel (Matthew 15:24). This would include every Pharisee, scribe, and Jew.

Here's your fail. You assume that the lost sheep are all of Israel. But you should cross check with John 10. Jesus clears up the whole sheep thing.

 

[MennoSota]

I know the word of God is nonsense to you when it doesn't agree with you. Do you want Jesus to try again, and make His words more Calvinist friendly?

I will say this again, if you believe in predestination, you must play the predestination lottery. You have no idea if you are chosen or not. Yes, you can put yourself on predestination pedestal, but what you do, means nothing. Yes, you can cite all the Bible you want, but if you did not come to the Light as Jesus taught, the very words of Jesus become your judge.

If I am chosen, it is by God's grace. If I am not chosen, then God's wrath falls justly upon my wickedness. In either case, God makes His choice.

"You were dead in your trespasses and sins."

"But God, made us alive."

"It is by grace you are saved, not by works, lest anyone should boast."

Do you see the Sovereign work of God or is Ephesians 2:1-10 cloudy on the issue?

 

[EmSw]

If I am chosen, it is by God's grace. If I am not chosen, then God's wrath falls justly upon my wickedness. In either case, God makes His choice.

"You were dead in your trespasses and sins."

"But God, made us alive."

"It is by grace you are saved, not by works, lest anyone should boast."

Do you see the Sovereign work of God or is Ephesians 2:1-10 cloudy on the issue?

If God's wrath falls upon your wickedness, just repent of your wickedness and you will receive forgiveness. It's not difficult to do. Under your belief, you have no choice of heaven or hell.

By the way, were you predestined to be dead in your trespasses and sins, or were you predestined to be made alive?

If you were predestined to be dead in your trespasses and sins, Ephesians 2:1-10 means nothing to you.

 

[EmSw]

We are all dead in our trespasses and sins.
Ew, have you ever seen a dead man? Have they ever come alive by their own volition? How can a dead man come to life? Does it not take God's work of causing life?
Read Ephesians 2:4. "But God made us alive..."

In summary. We were dead in our sins but God made us alive.

God chooses whom He wills to make alive. A dead man can't choose.

When Lazerus was in the tomb, what did it take for him to be made alive?
It took God saying, " Lazerus, come forth."
Only Lazerus was raised that day. It wasn't every dead person. God chooses whom He wills by His sovereign choice. No one knows why he chooses one and not another (Read Romans 9). The King makes the decisions. The subjects live with the King's decision.

Let's see, a dead man can do nothing in regards to God, but he can do something in regards to his sins. What a contradiction you have. Could a dead Lazarus sin, live in darkness, choose wickedness, and obey his sin? How could a dead Lazarus hear His voice? You are trying to make physical death the same as spiritual death. Not wise!

Jesus thought man could do something, being dead, and contribute to his life.

Luke 10:28
And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

Jesus said, to paraphrase, do this (dead man) and you will live.

Again, the words of Jesus make your belief null and void.

 

[MennoSota]

If God's wrath falls upon your wickedness, just repent of your wickedness and you will receive forgiveness. It's not difficult to do. Under your belief, you have no choice of heaven or hell.

By the way, were you predestined to be dead in your trespasses and sins, or were you predestined to be made alive?

If you were predestined to be dead in your trespasses and sins, Ephesians 2:1-10 means nothing to you.

If you commit a crime, should the judge just let you go free because you say you're sorry? Or, do you still receive the sentence prescribed despite the remorse?

If the judge decides to pardon, is it not the judges choice, not the criminals?

God the Son, took God the Father's wrath for the penalty of my law breaking. The sentence of death was completed by Yeshua. I can never repay that act. I am eternally grateful.

And, yes, for dead men the Bible means nothing to them. Do you wonder why the message of the Bible makes most humans hate God? They are dead in their sins. They cannot understand.

It takes God to open their eyes and make them alive.