Aren't you goading and flaming Oz? He answers all your questions and all you can do is insult him.
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How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?
- Thread starter bottomofsandal
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A believer should not hate, but must forgive, per God. Now why would you use the word hate to describe a difference in theology? Hate is a strong word. I think God uses the word hate to describe Satan, not His Children.
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It was mainly a rhetorical question. But I have heard atheists give this description of the Gospel, some of them were brought up in a Calvinist church and others who were seekers studying religions.
I don't know of any Calvinist who gave such an honest view of what Calvinism says when they preached or shared the Gospel as you created in #488. Actually the first time I heard the Gospel is was from a Calvinist on a one to one bases. That person didn't share with me what they really believed.
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I know you believe it. I once thought the same thing. Then I read the Bible and God changed my life.
You are simply wrong. Again, the number of verses showing God's sovereign choice is overwhelming in comparison to the few verses you are sharing.
Second, the reformations throughout history have stemmed from Christians who understood God's sovereign choice and work of grace. The great hymns, like Amazing Grace, came from those who understood God's choice. The most read Christian book, Pilgrim's Progress, was written by a man who understood God's choice.
2BL, all this points to God's sovereign choice. The scriptures ooze with this truth from page to page. Literally read Romans or Ephesians and you cannot miss it unless you close your eyes and mind.
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Nope. I'm telling him that the greatest people of faith I have met have suffered greatly in this life and their theology, forged from the crucible, blows away all the book knowledge of academics.
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I think that the word predestination refers to the fact that God is Omnicient. God is not held to time at all. That is an earthly, human thing. God's Word says that a grain of sand on the beach is what our lives on this earth are compared with eternity. I think it is reasonable that God could use predestination to describe knowinig all, past, present and future and all truth. You don't know how God see's things. Your theology puts God in a box, not mine.
You limit God, not I
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Unless you're an open theist, you believe that God created people He knew would go to hell. Heaven and hell have fixed numbers.Another one-liner!
That's what Calvinistic double-predestination teaches. John Calvin taught it. See: Did John Calvin believe in double predestination?
Oz
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I agree. They can't come up with one term that Calvinists redefine.
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But you've shown that you often ignore context (1 John 2:2, Titus 2:11 off the top of my head). So allegedly knowing Greek words isn't necessarily helpful.I do think about my theology and am a Greek exegete, having taught NT Greek. You can call it LOL but it's serious.
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So "all" always means "all of one thing"? It can't mean all types?
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Predestination means predestined. Ephesians 1 and 2 teach this very truth.
If God wanted to say all knowing, He would have. He said, predestined.
How many times does God have to say "chosen" before you will believe him? Do a word search in the Bible and see how it oozes from the text from Genesis to Revelation. It is right there in front of you.
I tried to explain it away for years, just as you and Oz are doing. If you are going to read the Bible and let God's word say what it says, you cannot get around God's choice, not ours.
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Because you experienced a works salvation preaching in your past, and believed it, you have decided that all people who are not Calvinist accept a works salvation/justification. I am sorry that you had to go through that rat race.
We don't all believe that.
g + f = s Grace AND faith are necessary to the state of justification and therefore salvation. Any righteous works that we do are because we are then sanctified, our righteous works are not our own, but Christ working through us. One cannot boast of works that God has placed in our hearts to do. One cannot even boast about not rejecting the salvation God has made available to us. How could we when we could never have had the desire to repent if we were not drawn by God, to do so. We only love God because He loved us first, where is the place for boasting?
Because God loved the world and Jesus died for the sins of the world does not equal universalism. Ultimately man is condemned for rejecting the salvation provided by God's grace through Christ's works, works that one must believe/faith.
Jesus made it very clear that men can reject God's saving grace.
Mat 23:37 `Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that art killing the prophets, and stoning those sent unto thee, how often did I will to gather thy children together, as a hen doth gather her own chickens under the wings, and ye did not will.
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If there's a NT soteriological issue that I'm trying to figure out, my main tactic is to compare the idea through the lens of the Law of Moses. God is gracious, yet doesn't force us to choose life. He gives us everything we need to trust and obey, but lets us whine, eat the quail, get our rear ends kicked, suffer, and lets us know how to go about stepping back into grace through repentance and faithfulness. That's kind of how I see it. We can resist God's grace, by rebelling, ignoring something we know to be true, making excuses, and using self pity or self preservation to justify sin. God never takes back His Law, and the conditions for assured forgiveness and mercy, too. Those are a given, and still possibilities.
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5 Then Jerusalem and all Judea and all the region about the Jordan were going out to him,
6 and they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins. - Matthew 3:5-6
So do you think that every single person in Judes went to see John?
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