How can the grace of God be resisted by some yet received by others?

[Hammster]

I think when God created Adam & Eve with free-will He as a loving Father also created a plan for if Adam & Eve should choose to not listen to God's commands.

So no, I do not believe that the cross was predestined before Adam & Eve were created to happen. I believe that when God gave them free-will, He had decided how He would protect mankind if they chose wrongly.

So the high point of history was just plan B? The one point in time where God was most glorified was only in case Adam failed? I'm thinking not.

 

[Hammster]

I'll let you wonder and ponder.

I've explained much more than you sitting there asking questions with your dull answer. No Calvinists will explain themselves, because they have no idea what they believe.

I will leave you now, I have other important things to do than hold a one-sided conversation with someone more interested in winning an debate, than he is teaching what he believes to be right. Stay humble, Hammster.

I know what I believe. But you've made some vague statements that I felt needed exploring.

 

[ToBeLoved]

So the high point of history was just plan B? The one point in time where God was most glorified was only in case Adam failed? I'm thinking not.

Well, you think that God is the predestinator of evil. When God's Word says that God can ONLY give good things and that He is only fair, righteous, just and perfect.

I'm sure you think that God also predestined Lucifer to rebel and take 1/3 of the angels with him. Because if God predestined evil on earth, He probably did the same and evil entered heaven.

The problem with your scenario is that God cannot be what the Bible says God is then. When God says that He is perfect, that means nothing. When God says He can only give good things, that is nothing. When God says that He is just, that means nothing.

You cannot reconcile your belief in predestination with the rest of the Bible, nor can you explain it in relation to the Bible, except to say God wanted it this way. Sorry, but that is a cop-out since the Bible is true and Truth.

How do you know that God didn't want the earth to be perfect? God needed additional 'glory' when all the angels sing 'Holy, Holy, Holy'. Yeah, what you say makes a lot of sense. Pfft.

Sorry if I find your one sentence responses to be lacking any kind of substance or opinion, but what does one expect from a Calvinist? Not that I didn't know there is nothing there.

 

[Hammster]

Well, you think that God is the predestinator of evil. When God's Word says that God can ONLY give good things and that He is only fair, righteous, just and perfect.

I'm sure you think that God also predestined Lucifer to rebel and take 1/3 of the angels with him. Because if God predestined evil on earth, He probably did the same and evil entered heaven.

The problem with your scenario is that God cannot be what the Bible says God is then. When God says that He is perfect, that means nothing. When God says He can only give good things, that is nothing. When God says that He is just, that means nothing.

You cannot reconcile your belief in predestination with the rest of the Bible, nor can you explain it in relation to the Bible, except to say God wanted it this way. Sorry, but that is a cop-out since the Bible doesn't support your theory.

How do you know that God didn't want the earth to be perfect? God needed additional 'glory' when all the angels sing 'Holy, Holy, Holy'. Yeah, what you say makes a lot of sense. Pfft.

What attributes of God would we not know of without the existence of sin?

 

[ToBeLoved]

What attributes of God would we not know of without the existence of sin?

How can God have predestined sin but not be a liar according to His Holy Word?

We can all shoot out one sentence questions, Hammster. It's not hard.

 

[ToBeLoved]

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭16-17‬ ESV)

 

[Daniel1986]

Actually, there is only one fair thing for God to do, and that is for God to eternally punish us all.

What you are saying is that instead of punishing all the mass murderers, to be fair, if God chose to set one free, he would be morally obligated to set them all free. But there is no moral basis for that idea when it is God who is the omniscient judge.

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ”Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? (Romans 9:18-21, 1984 NIV)

Punishment is not based on God's desire, it is based on his grace and justice. Every person who has a sinful nature on Judgment Day will be punished. No exceptions.

Jesus died so that everyone who ever lived could choose to yield to God's lordship. Without his death, no one could make that choice. It would have been moral for God not to send his son to earth, but it was not immoral for him to do so. He chose the latter because he desired to save us all so much that he was even willing to die to do so. As a result, the sins of everyone who have ever lived have been forgiven by God—but that is a one-sided action (God's side, not a person's side).

Even though we are forgiven, God is not willing to override anyone's will (and never does). However it is still moral for him to command those that knew him to tell everyone about what he had done and the option they have. That he knew ahead of time what people would choose is irrelevant to the fact that people had (and still have) a choice.

Here we see a person's salvation is dependent upon another human and his own response to it:

But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself. ... But if you do warn the righteous man not to sin and he does not sin, he will surely live because he took warning, and you will have saved yourself.” (Ezekiel 3:19,21, 1984 NIV)

We are shown that it is humans who cause the condemnation of a person in John 3:18, Romans 2:1, and Romans 14:22. We are born without righteousness before God and stand condemned due to the evil nature of our parents and ancestors.

I don't understand what you are referring to, so don't understand what you mean.

So what your saying with the verses from Romans is that God made some for salvation and some for damn ati on? And don't give me that " god knows everyone's heart , or free will stuff. If he made potts for salvation and potts for distrust ion then isn't it byous we should ask why? For we do not know the moment he will come right? And he shows more to some and less to others right? And he calls strongly on some , more than others right? He raises whom he wants and brings down who he want ( book of Daniel) right? So even from the beginning some ( actualy , most) have been set for eternal damn ati on in the eternal fire. As He sayed that " even before the beginning of time I have writen your name in the Book of Life" and it has nothing to do with free will or with omniscience. It was just planned like that. Right? Please answer the questions first before you present your opinion

 

[Skala]

How did Noah find grace with God?

Did you find grace with God? How did you do it?

Noah received undeserved kindness and mercy from God. Just like anyone else who God saves.

 

[Skala]

He failed to save Judas, no matter how you spin it. See if you can respond without making God a respecter of persons.

 

[Skala]

Hammster, have you allowed God to save you? Or, are you fighting it?

Hamm will tell you that he allowed God to save him the same way Lazarus allowed Jesus to resurrect him.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Noah received undeserved kindness and mercy from God. Just like anyone else who God saves.

Not what God's Word says.

Hebrews 11:7
“By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.”

Genesis 7:1
1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Hamm will tell you that he allowed God to save him the same way Lazarus allowed Jesus to resurrect him.

Now all of a sudden Lazarus has a free will to allow Jesus to resurrect him? lol.

You guys flip and flop and flip-flop.

Hint: Check the Bible before answering next time. The Bible is usually how the Holy Spirit teaches, unless of course you were predestined not to know God's Word.

 

[EmSw]

I'll address any points you make on the subject.

Did you allow God to save you, or did you fight it?

 

[EmSw]

So God favors those who are good enough or spiritual enough or smart enough to believe. That is still discrimination.

That's funny. If God acts the way you want, you call it sovereignty.

 

[EmSw]

Trust me, you don't know anything about Calvinism. Only what you've heard other anti-Calvinists inaccurately say.

Calvinists don't know Calvinism. Every one of you believe as you wish.

 

[victorinus]

Is the grace of God irresistible as the "I" in TULIP proclaims?

What enables some men to receive the grace of God unto salvation?

OTOH, what prevents some men from receiving God's grace?

free will

 

[Skala]

Not what God's Word says.

Hebrews 11:7
“By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.”

Genesis 7:1
1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

But didn't you learn in the New Testamant that any righteousness a person has that is pleasing to God, is actually an alien righteousness that is not their own?

Observe:
Phil 3:9
and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

To say that Noah had his own innate righteousness that God then rewarded is contrary to the Christian message, is it antithetical to the gospel. It is salvation by works and salvation by merit.

In Genesis we are told that God showed "grace" to Noah. Noah's righteousness was not his own, but imparted to him the same way the Apostle Paul's righteousness was. And yours and mine. We cannot boast in our own righteousness, for it is as filthy rags.

 

[EmSw]

Do you believe that for God to be good, He must be fair in trying to save everyone equally?

How would God act if He were evil?

 

[EmSw]

Was it evil to kill an innocent man?

What innocent man has God killed?

 

[Skala]

Now all of a sudden Lazarus has a free will to allow Jesus to resurrect him? lol.

You guys flip and flop and flip-flop.

Hint: Check the Bible before answering next time. The Bible is usually how the Holy Spirit teaches, unless of course you were predestined not to know God's Word.

I see you failed to grasp what I was trying to teach, with my post.

My point was, man plays no part in being the recipient of resurrecting, saving grace. Lazarus didn't "let" Jesus resurrect him, or cooperate in any way. A corpse cannot assist in his own resurrection.

Spiritual raising from the dead (aka, salvation) works the same way. Why do you think the Apostle Paul used death and resurrection as an analogy for salvation?

Salvation is monergistic, just like Calvinism says.

God doesn't merely offer salvation then sit back and wait to see what happens, like a lifeguard who tosses a ring to someone struggling to swim, then waiting to see if the person grabs onto the ring and holds on tight with their own strength (cooperation of two parties for the salvation of the man)

Instead, God is a miracle worker who dives to the bottom of the ocean because the swimming man is already dead and drowned, and God drags him to the shore and miraculously resurrects him. (monergism, God alone saves a man)

I know Hamm well enough to say that this would be his testimony. He'd say he "let" Jesus save him the same way Lazarus "let" Jesus save him. Ie, he played no part in his own salvation, but Jesus alone did all the work. And Hamm is eternally grateful.