Real time or evo time?

[dad]

If there is no time beyond on a certain boundary there is no velocity which is a function of time hence the speed of light can only exist up to the boundary.

Velocity CANNOT be a function of time unless times exists! If there is different time, or no time, then any velocity does not involve time. The reason, perhaps that it DOES involved time in the fishbowl is because TIME EXISTS HERE! Hey, who knows?

Since nothing can be observed beyond that boundary the event horizon is simply the radius of your fishbowl.

Wrong.

The fishbowl is where man has been, or sent a probe. If we look at the event horizon of science we see it means this..
"In general relativity, an event horizon is a boundary in spacetime beyond which events cannot affect an outside observer. In layman's terms, it is defined as "the point of no return", i.e., the point at which the gravitational pull becomes so great as to make escape impossible, even for light."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_horizon

So, a boundary IN spacetime, means a boundary IN the fishbowl! Spacetime is a concept of what space and time are, you know. If there is no time, then there is no spacetime as we think of it! Spacetime is a fishbowl concept.
In the actual created universe, if God created the stars TO affect earth, then there is no star "boundary in spacetime beyond which events cannot affect an outside observer."!!!!! That whole little construct and idea and model and word is a crock of steaming doodoo when applied to God's universe as a whole!

You now have absurd scenario that every observable object in the Universe must be compressed within your fishbowl.

Wrong. Space time would need to exist, meaning time and space as we know it is our little realm here ..all over the universe for that to be possibly true! You do not know that is the case. Therefore you are talking religion. Not knowledge or real science of any kind.

I ask you again do you believe the earth rotates around the Sun or do you follow the the geocentric version in the Bible?

Right now, I think we know earth does revolve around the sun, of course. However, in the former nature in the far past on earth, we do not know if that was the case! In the future, I doubt it will be either.

Hoo ha.

 

[dad]

We didn't realize God belonged to you and you alone.

He belongs to those that believe in Him. If we don't, we should not be quoting Him like a bangee.

 

[lesliedellow]

Velocity CANNOT be a function of time unless times exists!

I hate to introduce a fact into Dad's fantasy land, but velocity is defined as distance travelled per unit of time.

 

[dad]

And do you trust those "probes," knowing that they possibly have already exited our time and space?

Why? Is it because of the radio signals they send back? You consider radio waves more reliable than your own eyes?

You have a great faith in science after all, don't you?

Probes like the most distant ones, (Voyager) have undergone anomalies that some people say could represent some sort of time dilation effect of some kind. The explanation attributed to these anomalies by science uses conventional possible explanations. Therefore I would say that while science in this case, may be right, they also could be wrong, and the effect could be due to something out of their frame of reference and scope. So in that case, I would suggest that the very limited data that comes from those particular probes is less than clear and certain and absolute.

Generally, though, for probes I would think we get pretty clear info..far as I know. The point is that all of these probes are IN the fishbowl!

 

[dad]

I hate to introduce a fact into Dad's fantasy land, but velocity is defined as distance travelled per unit of time.

Right. As I said, a fishbowl concept!


"The velocity of an object is the rate of change of its position with respect to a frame of reference, and is a function of time." wiki

Nothing can be a function of time unless there IS time. Here, there is time so things that move involve time.

Here is a mental exercise for you. If an object moves through space that has no time, how much time would that object TAKE to move one light year?

 

[lesliedellow]

Right. As I said, a fishbowl concept!

One fact amongst a sea of Dad's fantasies is what you mean.

 

[dad]

One fact amongst a sea of Dad's fantasies is what you mean.

So when an angel is recorded to have come from beyond the far side of the universe, to earth, in no time at all, he would not fit into your little mental constructs. We get it.

 

[lesliedellow]

So when an angel is recorded to have come from beyond the far side of the universe, to earth, in no time at all, he would not fit into your little mental constructs. We get it.

And exactly where do you find that in the Bible?

 

[dad]

And exactly where do you find that in the Bible?

In the book of Daniel, where Gabriel, who came from the very throne of God (above the heavens) was there already when Daniel opened his eyes after praying!

 

[lesliedellow]

In the book of Daniel, where Gabriel, who came from the very throne of God (above the heavens) was there already when Daniel opened his eyes after praying!

So God is located within the universe which he created. That makes him a physical object, doesn't it?

 

[dad]

So God is located within the universe which he created. That makes him a physical object, doesn't it?

No. He is above the universe. Some fallen angels are still in the universe but will be sent to earth one day, probably soon.


Ps 113:4 - The LORD is high above all nations, and his glory above the heavens.

Eph 4:10 - He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1Ki 8:27 - But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

Also, we see that God put water above the firmament, and that it was in the firmament that He created and placed the stars. So we know there is a heaven of heavens above our universe.

 

[lesliedellow]

No. He is above the universe. Some fallen angels are still in the universe but will be sent to earth one day, probably soon.

Also, we see that God put water above the firmament, and that it was in the firmament that He created and placed the stars. So we know there is a heaven of heavens above our universe.

So you are firmly in the pagan Aristotle's camp, with no time for the Christian Copernicus.

 

[sjastro]

The fishbowl is where man has been, or sent a probe. If we look at the event horizon of science we see it means this..
"In general relativity, an event horizon is a boundary in spacetime beyond which events cannot affect an outside observer. In layman's terms, it is defined as "the point of no return", i.e., the point at which the gravitational pull becomes so great as to make escape impossible, even for light."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_horizon

So, a boundary IN spacetime, means a boundary IN the fishbowl! Spacetime is a concept of what space and time are, you know. If there is no time, then there is no spacetime as we think of it! Spacetime is a fishbowl concept.
In the actual created universe, if God created the stars TO affect earth, then there is no star "boundary in spacetime beyond which events cannot affect an outside observer."!!!!! That whole little construct and idea and model and word is a crock of steaming doodoo when applied to God's universe as a whole!

In your attempts to flog a dead horse you cut and paste a passage from the Wiki article that has absolutely nothing to do with Cosmic event horizons.
If you actually bothered to read the link you referred to, you would have found the appropriate section on Cosmic event horizons.
Cutting and pasting from that section might have made your comment seem vaguely intelligent, instead you then go on to construct an "argument" on the WRONG REFERENCE which only compounds your idiocy.

It shows (yet again) that whenever you attempt to stray the discussion back to the Science you are totally out of your depth.

Right now, I think we know earth does revolve around the sun, of course. However, in the former nature in the far past on earth, we do not know if that was the case! In the future, I doubt it will be either.

Hoo ha.

It's hilarious how you are trying to take a bet each way.
The fact is the Bible advocates an unchanging geocentric Universe.
For you to even suggest the Earth revolves around the Sun makes you a HERETIC and APOSTATE.

There are other repercussions as well.
You have freely admitted the Bible is in error, we do not live in a geocentric Universe and it was Science that you find so unpalatable, which found the error.

Given the Bible is wrong in this case, it is not the inviolable document you claim it is.
It's the icing on the cake.

 

[lesliedellow]

Given the Bible is wrong in this case, it is not the inviolable document you claim it is.
It's the icing on the cake.

The Bible is not a source of scientific information, but it is also far from being an optional extra for theology.

 

[sjastro]

The Bible is not a source of scientific information, but it is also far from being an optional extra for theology.

The Bible is certainly not a source of scientific information but when it makes references to events that may be historical, it falls within the realm of archaeological science.

 

[dad]

So you are firmly in the pagan Aristotle's camp, with no time for the Christian Copernicus.

?? No. They either believe or not. If either of them thought God lived somewhere in the universe, I would ask to see biblical support. Otherwise who cares what isotic thing they may have thought?

 

[TLK Valentine]

He belongs to those that believe in Him. If we don't, we should not be quoting Him like a bangee.

Sounds like He's your God, and nobody else can have Him.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Probes like the most distant ones, (Voyager) have undergone anomalies that some people say could represent some sort of time dilation effect of some kind. The explanation attributed to these anomalies by science uses conventional possible explanations.

Do you think Voyager has proceeded beyond your fishbowl?

Therefore I would say that while science in this case, may be right, they also could be wrong, and the effect could be due to something out of their frame of reference and scope. So in that case, I would suggest that the very limited data that comes from those particular probes is less than clear and certain and absolute.

Generally, though, for probes I would think we get pretty clear info..far as I know. The point is that all of these probes are IN the fishbowl!

And you know that they're IN the fishbowl because of the radio waves they send, correct?

 

[dad]

Sounds like He's your God, and nobody else can have Him.

Why, no one else can read the bible?

 

[dad]

Do you think Voyager has proceeded beyond your fishbowl?

I would not be surprised if it did not or if it did. Can you rule it out for us? I'm easy. After all how far it is away from us now..19 light hours or some such? Hey, I could be generous and allow a whole light day without raising an eyebrow for the time and space zone of man! Too bad the end of the world may come before Voyager ever gets even one light DAY away!

http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/where/

And you know that they're IN the fishbowl because of the radio waves they send, correct?

Why?