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Real time or evo time?

dad

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Right -- so far, you've demonstrated a basic knowledge.... now, continue with the definition.
Wiki says this

"
Parallax is a displacement or difference in the apparent position of an object viewed along two different lines of sight, and is measured by the angle or semi-angle of inclination between those two lines.[1][2] The term is derived from the Greek word παράλλαξις (parallaxis), meaning "alteration". Due to foreshortening, nearby objects have a larger parallax than more distant objects when observed from different positions, so parallax can be used to determine distances.

Astronomers use the principle of parallax to measure distances to the closer stars. Here, the term "parallax" is the semi-angle of inclination between two sight-lines to the star, as observed when the Earth is on opposite sides of the Sun in its orbit.[3]These distances form the lowest rung of what is called "the cosmic distance ladder", the first in a succession of methods by which astronomers determine the distances to celestial objects, serving as a basis for other distance measurements in astronomy forming the higher rungs of the ladder."




The problem is that time is in the mix. The base line is not just distance but time also.


If you look at the concept of space time, we see that is is just basically a convenient way of combining time and space into a single item.

" In physics, spacetime is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single interwoven continuum. Since 300 BCE, the spacetime of our universe has historically been interpreted from a Euclidean space perspective, which regards space as consisting of three dimensions, and time as consisting of one dimension, the "fourth dimension". By combining space and time into a single manifold called Minkowski space in 1908, physicists have significantly simplified a large number of physical theories, as well as described in a more uniform way the workings of the universe at both the supergalactic and subatomic levels."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

Now unless time exists in deep space also, and is woven with time exactly as it is here also, then one CANNOT simply combine space and time! Parallax is just an exercise in combining them, and extending the idea into deep space! There can be no real distances determined by the concept of space and time combined unless time exists and exists as we know it here. The so called distances derived from such a starting premise therefore are unsupportable and purely belief based.
 
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sjastro

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Wiki says this

The problem is that time is in the mix. The base line is not just distance but time also.


If you look at the concept of space time, we see that is is just basically a convenient way of combining time and space into a single item.

" In physics, spacetime is any mathematical model that combines space and time into a single interwoven continuum. Since 300 BCE, the spacetime of our universe has historically been interpreted from a Euclidean space perspective, which regards space as consisting of three dimensions, and time as consisting of one dimension, the "fourth dimension". By combining space and time into a single manifold called Minkowski space in 1908, physicists have significantly simplified a large number of physical theories, as well as described in a more uniform way the workings of the universe at both the supergalactic and subatomic levels."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

Now unless time exists in deep space also, and is woven with time exactly as it is here also, then one CANNOT simply combine space and time! Parallax is just an exercise in combining them, and extending the idea into deep space! There can be no real distances determined by the concept of space and time combined unless time exists and exists as we know it here. The so called distances derived from such a starting premise therefore are unsupportable and purely belief based.
It is very disingenuous to quote mine given the subject matter is way out of your depth.
On a more relevant topic, explain why the Hipparcos satellite measuring the parallax of 273 Cepheid variable stars found that the distance measurement calculated by parallax agrees with the distance based on the period luminosity relationship of the Cepheid.
 
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dad

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It is very disingenuous to quote mine given the subject matter is way out of your depth.
Out of your depth you mean.


On a more relevant topic, explain why the Hipparcos satellite measuring the parallax of 273 Cepheid variable stars found that the distance measurement calculated by parallax agrees with the distance based on the period luminosity relationship of the Cepheid.
Easy. Show the basis for each calculation. But remember, the issue here is mostly time. Time claimed for the distances for things to happen. The triangle uses three lines, and assumes that time exists for lines far out of earth area also. If a measure using an earth base line showed, say 100 million light years in distance, the reality is that no actual years could be involved, unless time existed out there...and we don't know that. Now, that opens up a whole new can of worms! If the apparent distance for example from us of two stars

..
serveimage


a and b seemed to be say, 23 light years apart from each other...and time did not exist as we know it...how far would they really be? What effect does time have on space? If you thought that the stars moved apart in say a billion years, and there was no billion years....(no time as we know it) .. then what are we seeing? A moment in time from our point of observation?! Etc...

Does science know what effect time has on space..can it bend it? Can it affect what is seen from an observation point IN time? Etc etc..
 
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sjastro

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Out of your depth you mean.
A childish response.
Since you introduced concepts such as Minkowski space-time into the discussion I am obliged to ask you how the past and future light cones in Minkowski space-time are inclined at 45 degrees given that the speed of light in space-time is constant.
This cannot occur if an observer's proper time varies at any point in the Universe.
This of course is a foreign language to you and the question only serves to highlight how you are totally out your depth.

In fact using Minkowski space-time as a justification that time somehow is different or doesn't exist "out there" is ludicrous as it is based on the principle that a clock's proper time is going to tick at the same rate at any point in the Universe.
Whereas proper time is the same, coordinate time can vary amongst observers in space-time depending on their motion or whether they reside in gravitational fields. An example of this is the correction needed to clocks on GPS satellites which tick faster when compared to Earth based clocks.
This however has absolutely no relevance to your own ideas.

Easy. Show the basis for each calculation. But remember, the issue here is mostly time. Time claimed for the distances for things to happen. The triangle uses three lines, and assumes that time exists for lines far out of earth area also. If a measure using an earth base line showed, say 100 million light years in distance, the reality is that no actual years could be involved, unless time existed out there...and we don't know that. Now, that opens up a whole new can of worms! If the apparent distance for example from us of two stars.
serveimage


a and b seemed to be say, 23 light years apart from each other...and time did not exist as we know it...how far would they really be? What effect does time have on space? If you thought that the stars moved apart in say a billion years, and there was no billion years....(no time as we know it) .. then what are we seeing? A moment in time from our point of observation?! Etc...

Does science know what effect time has on space..can it bend it? Can it affect what is seen from an observation point IN time? Etc etc..

I asked you a question regarding the consistency between distances based on parallax and Cepheid variables, the response I received either totally avoids the question or has gone right over your head.
The fact that a Cepheid variable even has a measurable time period for light variation makes a complete mockery of your "there is no time out there" argument let alone the distance calculations agreeing with a local baseline parallax measurement.

As far as your non response is concerned you missed the blindingly obvious, namely the speed of information cannot exceed the speed of light. That is why we are looking back into the past. It has nothing to do with the non existence of time.

Since parallax and Cepheid variables have cropped up in the discussion there is another distance candle known as the type 1A supernovae whose light curves are progressively more time dilated, the further the supernova is from the observer. The time dilation of the supernova light curve is easily explained as the Universe has expanded a certain distance in the time the photons from the supernova have reached us.

None of which is possible if time didn't exist...
 
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dad

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A childish response.
Since you introduced concepts such as Minkowski space-time into the discussion I am obliged to ask you how the past and future light cones in Minkowski space-time are inclined at 45 degrees given that the speed of light in space-time is constant.
You need to show why we should accept your childish notion of space and time (Minkowski) or offer it up as something one needs to try and fit into the little imaginary cones he conceptualized the future or past as!?

What foolishness. Who says we need to be taking time to be an imaginary fourth spacetime coordinate?? What if time was real? By the way I did not introduce the concepts you claimed as Minkowski space-time. Be honest.


This cannot occur if an observer's proper time varies at any point in the Universe.
Why even talk as if you had the slightest clue what you were talking about?? You are on earth. You may not preach about what the universe is like. Your time, call it what you like..proper or anything else...is earth time. Fishbowl earth time. That cannot be used to make declarations about the time in the far universe.


This of course is a foreign language to you and the question only serves to highlight how you are totally out your depth.
Pretentious pious ignorance just doesn't cut it here. What, you though you could toss out a few terms that may be unfamiliar to the average lurker and appear to know what you were talkin about? No. Not on my watch, pal.
In fact using Minkowski space-time as a justification that time somehow is different or doesn't exist "out there" is ludicrous as it is based on the principle that a clock's proper time is going to tick at the same rate at any point in the Universe.

Well that principle is utter rubbish. How would you know what would happen?
Whereas proper time is the same, coordinate time can vary amongst observers in space-time depending on their motion or whether they reside in gravitational fields. An example of this is the correction needed to clocks on GPS satellites which tick faster when compared to Earth based clocks.
Irrelevant. You are talking earth time. Earth area. Inner fishbowl time variations!

This however has absolutely no relevance to your own ideas.
I agree, since my ideas involve more thn the fishbowl of the earth area.

420033ed14d9d43c4f62b0b30b74d38a.jpg



I asked you a question regarding the consistency between distances based on parallax and Cepheid variables, the response I received either totally avoids the question or has gone right over your head.
The fact that a Cepheid variable even has a measurable time period for light variation makes a complete mockery of your "there is no time out there" argument let alone the distance calculations agreeing with a local baseline parallax measurement.

Absurd canard. The time is measured, experienced and seen and felt HERE! Guess who missed the forest for the trees?!
As far as your non response is concerned you missed the blindingly obvious, namely the speed of information cannot exceed the speed of light. That is why we are looking back into the past. It has nothing to do with the non existence of time.
Says who? The bible records info exceeding light speed. Quantum info in entangled particles is said to happen instantly to each entangled particle regardless of distance...etc.

You simply cannot dictate your little usual fishbowl rules for all of God's universe!
Since parallax and Cepheid variables have cropped up in the discussion there is another distance candle known as the type 1A supernovae whose light curves are progressively more time dilated, the further the supernova is from the observer. The time dilation of the supernova light curve is easily explained as the Universe has expanded a certain distance in the time the photons from the supernova have reached us.

The time dilation is here on earth. The light from stars is seen here in TIME. By the way cite an example of such a light curve, so we can check your work:)
None of which is possible if time didn't exist...
Time does exist...HERE!
 
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sjastro

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You need to show why we should accept your childish notion of space and time (Minkowski) or offer it up as something one needs to try and fit into the little imaginary cones he conceptualized the future or past as!?

What foolishness. Who says we need to be taking time to be an imaginary fourth spacetime coordinate?? What if time was real? By the way I did not introduce the concepts you claimed as Minkowski space-time. Be honest.

Not only is the subject matter beyond your scope of comprehension but you are also hopelessly confused.
in this post you stated that space-time exists within your fishbowl.

"Now unless time exists in deep space also, and is woven with time exactly as it is here also......"

So now within the space of a couple of posts, the entire concept is rubbished because you have been exposed to ideas you have never even heard of.

So which one is it, does space-time exist within your fishbowl or is it a rubbish concept. You can't have it both ways.
The foolishness lies in the fact you are prepared to contradict yourself rather than admit you have no comprehension.

Why even talk as if you had the slightest clue what you were talking about?? You are on earth. You may not preach about what the universe is like. Your time, call it what you like..proper or anything else...is earth time. Fishbowl earth time. That cannot be used to make declarations about the time in the far universe.
Since you don't understand what proper time is let me give you a couple of simple examples. Your biological clock keeps proper time as is the radioactive half life of Nickel 56.

It's called proper time because it is the time kept in an object's frame of reference irrespective of its location in space time. Funny isn't it how the radioactive decay of Nickel 56 is observed in the spectrum of distant supernovae, something that shouldn't occur if time doesn't exist outside the fishbowl....

Pretentious pious ignorance just doesn't cut it here. What, you though you could toss out a few terms that may be unfamiliar to the average lurker and appear to know what you were talkin about? No. Not on my watch, pal.

So why didn't you take the opportunity of showing the errors of my way "Pal".
Your inability to do so only demonstrates mock bravado and is nothing more than an attempt to hide your ignorance on the subject.

Well that principle is utter rubbish. How would you know what would happen?

This is bordering on pure comedy. The principle has been around for about a century and is taught at undergraduate physics and applied mathematics level ever since.
It serves as an introduction to the application of physics to the entire Universe which culminated in General Relativity.
Since you seem to know more than anyone else why don't you submit a paper and pick up the prize at Stockholm.

Says who? The bible records info exceeding light speed. Quantum info in entangled particles is said to happen instantly to each entangled particle regardless of distance...etc.

Does it really?
Please cite chapter and verse.

You don't understand Quantum mechanics either.
Entangled particles are the result of the superimposition of the quantum wave states of the particles where they are spread out over space time rather than occupying a specific point.
Maybe you should write up another paper and submit just in case you don't pick up the prize for the first paper.

Fishbowl earth time. That cannot be used to make declarations about the time in the far universe.

Irrelevant. You are talking earth time. Earth area. Inner fishbowl time variations!

I agree, since my ideas involve more than the fishbowl of the earth area.

Absurd canard. The time is measured, experienced and seen and felt HERE! Guess who missed the forest for the trees?!

The time dilation is here on earth. The light from stars is seen here in TIME. By the way cite an example of such a light curve, so we can check your work
clip_image001.gif
.

Not only do you exhibit a profound lack of basic comprehension skills, your post is riddled with logical errors.
First of all is the mundane argument by repetition.
Repeating the same nonsense over and over doesn't make it right.
Secondly you fail to provide any evidence of what happens outside the fishbowl, with good reason because you know very well that it is impossible to do so.
Yet you accuse others of engaging in faith based arguments when you own idea is purely faith based and not even falsifiable which doesn't make a scientific argument.
Thirdly your argument is the same as stating the tooth fairy exists by noting no one has proven their non existence.
The logical fallacy here is trying to prove a negative which is impossible.
Finally is the application of Occam's razor which by the way is not a mandatory argument but has application here.
Which is easier to understand a Universe where time exists throughout or your fishbowl?
You cannot even explain the very concept of velocity outside your fishbowl.

Your idea is pure garbage.
 
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dad

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Not only is the subject matter beyond your scope of comprehension but you are also hopelessly confused.
in this post you stated that space-time exists within your fishbowl.
I am confused about nothing here. Your attempts to obfuscate simply are exposed.


So now within the space of a couple of posts, the entire concept is rubbished because you have been exposed to ideas you have never even heard of.
The ideas any child could google are based on certain things. Those things were held up to dry, and you simply cannot deal with it. Your roaring lion turned out to be a pussycat.
So which one is it, does space-time exist within your fishbowl or is it a rubbish concept. You can't have it both ways.
To be clear, the fishbowl refers to the realm of man, and the area we live in and can move in. Another way to perhaps get a better conception of the term fishbowl is to use the word solar system. You have not been far beyond the solar system and to the stars. Really. In fact you don't even know much about the interior of the planet.
The foolishness lies in the fact you are prepared to contradict yourself rather than admit you have no comprehension.
You have the opportunity to state simply your case. I see grand allusions and vague double talk, mixed with a few high sounding words. Unless you can focus, and articulate a cohesive simple and clear position, we must flush.

Since you don't understand what proper time is let me give you a couple of simple examples. Your biological clock keeps proper time as is the radioactive half life of Nickel 56.

It's called proper time because it is the time kept in an object's frame of reference irrespective of its location in space time. Funny isn't it how the radioactive decay of Nickel 56 is observed in the spectrum of distant supernovae, something that shouldn't occur if time doesn't exist outside the fishbowl....
Hilarious. You are claiming radioactivity exists in all the universe, and that all points in the universe are 'spacetime'. You actually do not know what space or time even are. You do not know if time exists as we think of it in the far universe either. We do not know that our bodies could exist in the far universe even, no one has been there. Yes, we see light curves that seem to represent radioactive decay in space. But we see that only here for one thing, and our information is less than perfect or complete. If we need to explain some aspect of a light curve, we might invoke a 'dynamic process' after a core collapse to have been responsible..etc etc. There is a lot of assumptions built in to any claim.
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/...=0&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_VIEW&classic=YES


So why didn't you take the opportunity of showing the errors of my way "Pal".
Your inability to do so only demonstrates mock bravado and is nothing more than an attempt to hide your ignorance on the subject.
The error is that you are preaching faith based nonsense.


This is bordering on pure comedy. The principle has been around for about a century and is taught at undergraduate physics and applied mathematics level ever since.
Too bad. It is wrong. At least it is limited and not something we define the universe itself with. Man's concepts are relative to man's realm.
It serves as an introduction to the application of physics to the entire Universe which culminated in General Relativity.
Big talk, based on nothing. Your fishbowl philosophies and rules apply in man's world. Not in all creation. Man does not even know creation exists! Man has painted creation with his little two bit concepts, godless conjecture, belief system and imagined it to be the non created universe, all obeying man's little ideas.

Since you seem to know more than anyone else why don't you submit a paper and pick up the prize at Stockholm.
Don't confuse not knowing and admitting not knowing with knowing more than the poor sods who thought they knew!
Does it really?
Please cite chapter and verse.
One example, is in Daniel. Daniel prayed, and as soon as he opened his eyes, there was an angel from beyond the stars, the very throne of God, who was there already! The info came a lot faster than light!

Dan 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; 21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. 22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. 23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision
You don't understand Quantum mechanics either.
Hey, who does?

Entangled particles are the result of the superimposition of the quantum wave states of the particles where they are spread out over space time rather than occupying a specific point.

So what causes something to be superimposed? Then the question arises...if info between entangled particles in space and time (regardless of where in space) have the same behavior, and each do the same thing 'instantly' ..then how fast is info exchanged? What causes it?
Not only do you exhibit a profound lack of basic comprehension skills, your post is riddled with logical errors.
First of all is the mundane argument by repetition.
Repeating the same nonsense over and over doesn't make it right.
You forgot to say what was not right exactly. Stop flailing your hands in the air and focus.

Secondly you fail to provide any evidence of what happens outside the fishbowl, with good reason because you know very well that it is impossible to do so.
Bingo! So don't blame me when I point out that science can't do it.


Yet you accuse others of engaging in faith based arguments when you own idea is purely faith based and not even falsifiable which doesn't make a scientific argument.
There IS no scientific argument that covers the creation of God, and the stars and time! There is godless speculation falsely called science.

Thirdly your argument is the same as stating the tooth fairy exists by noting no one has proven their non existence.
The logical fallacy here is trying to prove a negative which is impossible.
Wrong, since what I am saying is that you do not know after all. Your posts prove it. I do not need to know what goes on in the far corners of the created universe, far beyond man's little realm. Science does claim to know.

Finally is the application of Occam's razor which by the way is not a mandatory argument but has application here.
Which is easier to understand a Universe where time exists throughout or your fishbowl?
In the universe you made up, there is no creation. No God. No angels. No spirits. No place where time does not exist the same as earth. No place where fishbowl thinking does not rule!

You cannot even explain the very concept of velocity outside your fishbowl.
No? Well, is something moves...does it take time? Well, why would I explain how something would move without time? The issue is not whether we can sit there explaining what we have no clue about all the live long day! You thought that was science?! My idea of science is that is has to be based on some knowledge.
 
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sjastro

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In your previous post, you quoted me 18 times yet none of your responses addressed any of the issues at hand.
This is either the classic Gish gallop tactic or your comprehension skills are even more deficient than I suspected, bordering on an inability of understanding plain English.

Which ever the case is irrelevant, we can now add two further logical fallacies to the list.

First is the argument of personal incredulity.
Since you don't comprehend space-time or light cones, or time dilation, or proper time or coordinate time etc then neither does anyone else. Hence the bar set by Science is based on your own level of understanding and knowledge.
This is taking self grandiosity to the extreme isn't it.

Secondly is the false dichotomy fallacy.
Your "theory" or belief doesn't have to stand on its own merits but on the difficulties of what you perceive is Science.
In other words someone else's theory being wrong doesn't automatically make your theory right.

My idea of science is that is has to be based on some knowledge.

WARNING, WARNING, IRONY OVERLOAD!!!!!!!!!
You have got to be kidding.
You are incapable of thinking for yourself but requires a book that does the thinking for you.
Any knowledge that is outside the book is an anathema to you.
Your "theory" actually turns out to reducing knowledge to bare minimum as your fishbowl forms a bubble in which any
knowledge outside the bubble cannot exist.
 
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dad

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In your previous post, you quoted me 18 times yet none of your responses addressed any of the issues at hand.
This is either the classic Gish gallop tactic or your comprehension skills are even more deficient than I suspected, bordering on an inability of understanding plain English.
I answered each point actually, in a direct and non time wasting way.
First is the argument of personal incredulity.
Since you don't comprehend space-time or light cones,
They are a way to conceptualize the ideas of some about the realities of space and time. Cone heads, basically. Show us in your own words why the future must fit in your imaginary cone!? Show us how that even relates to what was being discussed about the far universe and time there..or lack thereof? You offer stawmen and canards, and red herrings. All smoke, no fire.

or time dilation,
That is a feature of the fishbowl of man and his area. You want to claim some uniform time dilation or something in deep space?? Focus.

or proper time
Proper time apparently in your book, means fishbowl time. You thought you could get away with claiming that anything that happens under your nose has to happen anywhere in God's creation.

or coordinate time etc
Fishbowl coordinates are just not up to the task of mapping a universe, save inside your head.

then neither does anyone else. Hence the bar set by Science is based on your own level of understanding and knowledge.
There is no bar set by science, there is a fanatical belief set preached by science that is vile and godless and utterly ridiculous.
Secondly is the false dichotomy fallacy.
Your "theory" or belief doesn't have to stand on its own merits but on the difficulties of what you perceive is Science.
In other words someone else's theory being wrong doesn't automatically make your theory right.
God doesn't have a theory and those who know His word don't need one either. I simply pointed out that you do not really know about time in the far universe and have simply sought to impose fishbowl philosophy on the universe. YOUR theories are under the gun here, not anyone else's. I am happy to admit we do not really know, unlike the pious pontificating puffy preachy peons of so called science.

WARNING, WARNING, IRONY OVERLOAD!!!!!!!!!
You have got to be kidding.
You are incapable of thinking for yourself but requires a book that does the thinking for you.
I have demonstrated I do think for myself, and questioned the religious offerings of manscience. How can honest folks forgive the evil fable tellers of science when we see the disrespect to God and His word to man that they wreak of??

Any knowledge that is outside the book is an anathema to you.
God knows all about the created universe, unlike fishbowl science. No matter how many books they produce, they never ever do or can get it right. They are in a dead end death loop of godless circular reasoning, and filthy dreaming.

Your "theory" actually turns out to reducing knowledge to bare minimum as your fishbowl forms a bubble in which any
knowledge outside the bubble cannot exist.
I don't care if you are sore about the real and demonstrated limits of science. Your lame attempts to use the fishbowl analogy show us that it hits science where it hurts.

Cool.
 
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sjastro

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I have demonstrated I do think for myself, and questioned the religious offerings of manscience. How can honest folks forgive the evil fable tellers of science when we see the disrespect to God and His word to man that they wreak of??
What you have clearly demonstrated is that you cannot think for yourself, and will attack those who do when it doesn't conform to your intellectually vacuous view of the world.
Your posts speak for themselves in particular to how you react to concepts that are beyond your comprehension.
 
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TLK Valentine

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The problem is that time is in the mix. The base line is not just distance but time also.

Explain, in your own words, how exactly time is in the mix.
 
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AirPo

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I have demonstrated I do think for myself, and questioned the religious offerings of manscience. How can honest folks forgive the evil fable tellers of science when we see the disrespect to God and His word to man that they wreak of??
Claiming that science questions religious offerings is not evidence of thinking.
 
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dad

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What you have clearly demonstrated is that you cannot think for yourself, and will attack those who do when it doesn't conform to your intellectually vacuous view of the world.
Your posts speak for themselves in particular to how you react to concepts that are beyond your comprehension.
When you were asked to explain how the future is in a cone, after you raised some canard, you failed. You have offered nothing here, but spamming with no support relation to topic, or ability to defend ideas you raise.

If you think that sort of small minded religious fanaticism is thinking for yourself, you get a big GONG!

I came prepared to discuss actual details and look at the basis for claims, you came preaching nonsense with an attitude.
 
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dad

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Explain, in your own words, how exactly time is in the mix.

In parallax, as explained the base line is here in the solar system. The time and space used in the base line involves time..time as it exists here. One cannot draw a line to the stars from that, and based on that. To do so would be to assume time exists all the way to the star.

Not only does that kill the idea that light and info would require great TIME to get here, but it brings into question even the distances in miles or units other than time. For example, how would we know what a lack of time would do to space? Would it still be the sort of space we think of? After all, our space involves time, for example the movements of heavenly bodies take time here. How could one have such bodies in space where no time as we think of time exists??
What unknown effect could there be if space and time were simply not the same as space and time near earth? Could distances be more like apparent distances? I would think that what we see here from a point IN time and space and time could be largely determined by the point of observation in such a case.

I mean using our concepts and physics, we imagine great effects on what we see, such as gravitational lensing. So how much more effects could there be if space and time were simply not the same at all?

Therefore, using a base line from our space and time "fishbowl' and claiming it runs the same in time and space and distance..to a star..is nothing more than a statement of faith.
 
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sjastro

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When you were asked to explain how the future is in a cone, after you raised some canard, you failed. You have offered nothing here, but spamming with no support relation to topic, or ability to defend ideas you raise.

What a pathetic attempt to divert from the issue that you are incapable of thinking for yourself by now trying to set up deals and conditions for making responses.
Let me play along with your silly little game......momentarily.
I don't answer your "questions" for the simple reason there is no honest intent behind them.
On the subject of light cones you had already decided through your own ignorance, stupidity and bigotry ("You need to show why we should accept your childish notion of space and time (Minkowski)......") that any answer I provide would automatically fall on deaf ears.
I'm not in the business of wasting my time of having to convince you on a subject, that incidentally requires an understanding of special relativity, where you have already decided is not worth learning about. This is a perfect example of your inability of thinking for yourself.

I came prepared to discuss actual details and look at the basis for claims, you came preaching nonsense with an attitude.
You must have been holding up a mirror when making this comment.
It's called the psychology of projection where you see others as you are.
Where exactly in the 45 pages of this thread have you addressed the scientific issues that time doesn't exist "out there", instead of engaging in highly offensive behaviour such as cowardly hiding behind the Bible and calling individuals evil.
 
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TLK Valentine

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In parallax, as explained the base line is here in the solar system. The time and space used in the base line involves time..time as it exists here. One cannot draw a line to the stars from that, and based on that. To do so would be to assume time exists all the way to the star.

Time need not exist for one to see that the star is there. You've failed, as always.

Either we see the star in the sky or we do not. Do you claim to see things which aren't actually there?
 
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