Probably been asked before but - Do Christians believe that every non-Christian ever born will not g

SkyWriting

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For example if there was a Jew/ Muslim/ Shinto/ Atheist who devoted their lives to doing good works, charity, looking after people and never did a bad deed, would they be excluded from Heaven?

Being hostile to God's Holy Spirit is the one and only unforgivable sin.
Even then there any many who speak out against the idea of Organised
Religion, but would welcome the Holy Spirit in their Soul. When that
did, could, or will happen is in God's hands.
 
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Eudaimonist

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Being hostile to God's Holy Spirit is the one and only unforgivable sin.

Can non-Christians be non-hostile to God's Holy Spirit? Are only people who are Christian capable of having the Holy Spirit in them?


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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ViaCrucis

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For example if there was a Jew/ Muslim/ Shinto/ Atheist who devoted their lives to doing good works, charity, looking after people and never did a bad deed, would they be excluded from Heaven?

I think there's two layers to this:

1. The thread's title question, "Do Christians believe every non-Christian will not go to heaven" and
2. Would a non-Christian who dedicated themselves to good works/being good be excluded from heaven.

To answer the first, some Christians believe that all non-Christians will be excluded from the future world, but by no means all. Christian thinking has been varied and diverse throughout the history of our faith, and we could say that there is something of a spectrum of ideas. Think of it like this, one one end you have Christians who believe that all non-Christians are bound to hell, forever and ever and ever and ever; on the other end you have Christians who believe that, eventually, everyone will share in the life of God and, ultimately, hell will be empty. The majority of Christians sit at neither of these two ends, but exist somewhere in the middle between them. It's also worth remembering also that (arguably) the majority of Christians wouldn't even say that all Christians will "go to heaven", and that there will be Christians who will find themselves among the goats and tares (the judgment scene depicted in the 25th chapter of St. Matthew's Gospel isn't between Christians and non-Christians, both those on Christ's right and left are Christians).

Since Christian views on this topic can be varied, there is no singular view that can be offered as an answer. What can be said is that, no, most Christians don't believe that all non-Christians are going to hell/excluded from the life to come.

To answer the second question it's important to understand that every major expression of the Christian faith--Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant--understands that salvation and our hope and promise of life in the future age isn't based on our being "good enough", it is fundamentally about God's kindness and grace extended to us through Christ, in His death and resurrection. In the strictest sense "heaven" is not a reward for being good and "hell" is not a punishment for being bad. The Christian hope is that God, in Christ, is restoring the world and our salvation is our participation in that work in as much as we, hoping and trusting in Christ, having been baptized, have been united to Jesus and therefore hope in Him to be present in that future world and part of it, in Christ, when all things have been made new. "Hell" is not that.

Therefore the question is not "What about the Hindu who dedicates himself to trying to live good?" And then speak of "Heaven" as the reward for doing good works in this life, because "Heaven" isn't a reward for doing good or being a good person; it's what the universe looks like after Christ returns and God has made all things new--and our place there isn't dependent on how well we conducted ourselves, or how obedient we were to God's commandments (etc) but rather our place there is rooted in Christ. Therefore the Hindu who finds themselves in the future world isn't there on account of their good deeds, but it would be based solely on the kindness of God in Jesus--the same as what we Christians hope for here and now. The grace of God is such that no one is excluded from what He will do, nobody, flat out nobody is excluded.

Touching on these together then: Quite a good many Christians (a majority even?) would indeed argue, in different ways, that the way anyone can get to Hell is by their own conscious choice--nobody will be in Hell who doesn't consciously want to be there. Some might argue that this choice is only able to be exercised in this life, others would not. Many Christians simply don't believe in being dogmatic about things which Scripture hardly touches upon and which the Church historically simply has never been dogmatic about and to insist that the only appropriate thing to say is that God is, indeed, good, kind, merciful, and just--and so the ultimate outcome of everything will be, fundamentally, in accordance with His love, kindness, compassion, and justice which He has universally for all, without exception.

To quote St. Isaac the Syrian:

"In love did God bring the world into existence; in love is God going to bring it to that wondrous transformed state, and in love will the world be swallowed up in the great mystery of the One who has performed all these things; in love will the whole course of the governance of creation be finally comprised."

-CryptoLutheran
 
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HitchSlap

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For example if there was a Jew/ Muslim/ Shinto/ Atheist who devoted their lives to doing good works, charity, looking after people and never did a bad deed, would they be excluded from Heaven?
According to Christian doctrine, yes. Christian doctrine also claims that such a person as Hitler, can have a "death bed" conversion, and gain access to heaven. In fact, their claim to fame is that it is not a "works based salvation," but a faith/belief based salvation.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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...The grace of God is such that no one is excluded from what He will do, nobody, flat out nobody is excluded.
Ah, but what will He do - will He treat everyone the same or, as I was taught, judge them according to their deeds and treat them accordingly ?

Quite a good many Christians (a majority even?) would indeed argue, in different ways, that the way anyone can get to Hell is by their own conscious choice--nobody will be in Hell who doesn't consciously want to be there.
I can imagine people not wanting to go to heaven, but who would consciously want to go to hell? I don't imagine there's a long line for that door...
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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I can imagine people not wanting to go to heaven, but who would consciously want to go to hell? I don't imagine there's a long line for that door...
According to the Creator Himself, THAT LINE is billions upon billions (not who 'consciously want' , but they are on the wide road to destruction anyway.).
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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For example if there was a Jew/ Muslim/ Shinto/ Atheist who devoted their lives to doing good works, charity, looking after people and never did a bad deed, would they be excluded from Heaven?
IF they consciously REJECT Yhwh or Yeshua Messiah, then yes.
But then they wouldn't be in the group you defined "never did a bad deed".....

as for anyone who does what is right: (outside ekklesia, Yhwh Judges) >>

Romans 2:14-15Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
14 For whenever Gentiles, who have no Torah, do naturally what the Torah requires, then these, even though they don’t have Torah, for themselves are Torah! 15 For their lives show that the conduct the Torah dictates is written in their hearts.a]">[a] Their consciences also bear witness to this, for their conflicting thoughts sometimes accuse them and sometimes defend them

Footnotes:
  1. Romans 2:15 Jeremiah 31:32(33)
 
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ViaCrucis

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Ah, but what will He do - will He treat everyone the same or, as I was taught, judge them according to their deeds and treat them accordingly ?

In some respect the topic of the Judgment is a much bigger conversation to be had.

I can imagine people not wanting to go to heaven, but who would consciously want to go to hell? I don't imagine there's a long line for that door...

You're likely imagining hell as a location of conscious torment. I'm not talking about some location with fire, brimstone, and goat-footed devils wielding pitchforks. I addressed my own thoughts on the nature of Hell in another thread started by the same OP on this board, I believe the thread was titled "Heaven and Hell" or something to that nature.

However, in a nutshell, I'm not suggesting anyone would want to go to a place so they could be tortured; so much as I'm saying that "Hell" is itself to reject being part of the future world. That is, I'm defining Hell more along the lines about what it is not, rather than what it is.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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According to Christian doctrine, yes.

According to the views of some Christians, not all.

Christian doctrine also claims that such a person as Hitler, can have a "death bed" conversion, and gain access to heaven.

Christian teaching is that God is merciful even to the most heinous among us, yes.

In fact, their claim to fame is that it is not a "works based salvation," but a faith/belief based salvation.

Different Christian theological traditions have different approaches to theology. As a Lutheran I subscribe to a grace based salvation. Salvation isn't based upon what I do or even what I believe, it's based upon God's own kindness toward sinners and the death and resurrection of Christ--my works, my efforts, my energies (that includes even my own will, thoughts, beliefs, or "yes" to God) do not afford me anything before God; it is solely and entirely His own kindness and mercy.

I suspect that you are conflating Evangelical with Christian in your response here.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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For example if there was a Jew/ Muslim/ Shinto/ Atheist who devoted their lives to doing good works, charity, looking after people and never did a bad deed, would they be excluded from Heaven?


That's not what Catholics believe, not is it what the bible teaches.

For example:

Acts 10
34Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.
 
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juvenissun

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For example if there was a Jew/ Muslim/ Shinto/ Atheist who devoted their lives to doing good works, charity, looking after people and never did a bad deed, would they be excluded from Heaven?

The Bible says that they can not be in the Heaven.
Everyone is a sinner.
 
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juvenissun

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According to Christian doctrine, yes. Christian doctrine also claims that such a person as Hitler, can have a "death bed" conversion, and gain access to heaven. In fact, their claim to fame is that it is not a "works based salvation," but a faith/belief based salvation.

Pretty good.
Anything wrong with this doctrine? I think it is logic and fair. And, it is probably the only way it would work.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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According to the Creator Himself, THAT LINE is billions upon billions (not who 'consciously want' , but they are on the wide road to destruction anyway.).
The line I explicitly referred to was those who consciously want to go to hell - that was the whole point...(!)

Incidentally, where does the Creator Himself say that there are 'billions upon billions ... on the wide road to destruction' ?
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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In some respect the topic of the Judgment is a much bigger conversation to be had.
OK; I thought so.

You're likely imagining hell as a location of conscious torment.
Not necessarily - I'm aware of variations on the hell theme, but it's generally something less desirable than the alternative, if only 'absence from God' or somesuch.

... I'm defining Hell more along the lines about what it is not, rather than what it is.
Even less than that - what you think it is not. Rather a nebulous definition.
 
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According to Christian doctrine, yes. Christian doctrine also claims that such a person as Hitler, can have a "death bed" conversion, and gain access to heaven. In fact, their claim to fame is that it is not a "works based salvation," but a faith/belief based salvation.

Ah, but what will He do - will He treat everyone the same or, as I was taught, judge them according to their deeds and treat them accordingly ?

I can imagine people not wanting to go to heaven, but who would consciously want to go to hell? I don't imagine there's a long line for that door...

Do you actually believe that God has created a place where he assigns or allows his greatest enemies, Satan and his demons, to enjoy themselves via inflicting agonies on humans? Weird universe you live in!
 
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ViaCrucis

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OK; I thought so.

It's probably best not to presume here. The way I tend to approach the concept of the Judgment stems from a Lutheran paradigm of Coram Deo v. Coram Hominibus; Justification is vertical, our place before God (Coram Deo) whereas the Judgment is horizontal, it's fundamentally about us and our fellow man (Coram Hominibus). The Judgment scene depicted in Matthew 25 is centrally about how we treat one another, in particularly "the least of these" and so the judgmental act makes plain to us the state of our affairs as we have lived our lives in relation to our neighbor.

Not necessarily - I'm aware of variations on the hell theme, but it's generally something less desirable than the alternative, if only 'absence from God' or somesuch.

Even less than that - what you think it is not. Rather a nebulous definition.

If B = Not A then Not A = B.

My point here is that B (Hell) = Not A (Not Heaven).

Nebulous, certainly, but it seems to rather certainly address the question of "I can understand someone not wanting to be in Heaven, by why would anyone want to go to Hell?"

As I said, I offered a number of thoughts on the topic of Hell itself in another thread, and I didn't offer a singular line of thinking on the subject. For two reasons:

1. I wanted to try and discuss things from a broadly Christian perspective rather than narrow down to a singular interpretation or view held by only some.
2. I don't personally subscribe to any particular dogmatic view on the subject.

But in this instance I was narrowing the scope to the point to indicate that there is a particular Christian eschatological and teleological hope which is confessed in the historic Creeds and Confessions of the Christian religion: The resurrection of the dead, and life everlasting in the age to come; that is that God will make all things new, renew and restore all things. That is the Christian hope as understood within traditional Christian orthodoxy. Since this is the Christian hope, then whatever "Hell" is or may be, the most useful definition or understanding--given that there is no monolithic or dogmatic view within Christian history and the Bible itself uses metaphors that can be rather vague and apocalyptic in nature--is that "Hell" is, essentially, "not this" with "this" being the fullness of life in the future world.

If someone does not wish to be part of the future world, then "Hell" describes not being part of that future world. Whatever else "Hell" might be is peripheral at this point. Hell could be many things, or it could be basically nothing at all, but the point is that "Hell" is the term used to describe not sharing in the future world.

If someone says "I do not want X" then what they get is Not X. That is what I mean by saying that I'm defining Hell by what it isn't rather than what it is.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Eudaimonist

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Do you actually believe that God has created a place where he assigns or allows his greatest enemies, Satan and his demons, to enjoy themselves via inflicting agonies on humans? Weird universe you live in!

Weird Bible narratives Christians live in. :)

That used to be my narrative, as taught by representatives of the Catholic Church. I realize that there are differing interpretations of Hell among Christians, but this is one of them.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Do you actually believe that God has created a place where he assigns or allows his greatest enemies, Satan and his demons, to enjoy themselves via inflicting agonies on humans? Weird universe you live in!
You seem confused - I'm discussing concepts of the Christian mythology, not the real world. And who said anything about Satan or demons inflicting agony?
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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If B = Not A then Not A = B.

My point here is that B (Hell) = Not A (Not Heaven).

Nebulous, certainly, but it seems to rather certainly address the question of "I can understand someone not wanting to be in Heaven, by why would anyone want to go to Hell?"
...
If someone does not wish to be part of the future world, then "Hell" describes not being part of that future world. Whatever else "Hell" might be is peripheral at this point. Hell could be many things, or it could be basically nothing at all, but the point is that "Hell" is the term used to describe not sharing in the future world.

If someone says "I do not want X" then what they get is Not X. That is what I mean by saying that I'm defining Hell by what it isn't rather than what it is.
OK, I get the idea - when pressed, the monks at school used to say Heaven is 'being with God' and Hell is 'exile from God'. They didn't like it when we asked whether that makes this life Heaven (or Hell)...
 
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