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Probably been asked before but - Do Christians believe that every non-Christian ever born will not g

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Dave RP, Aug 19, 2016.

  1. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    Please explain what events you are referring to. Thanks.
     
  2. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    The ones concerning God destroying the ignorant.
     
  3. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    Luck 23: 34
    Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing." And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
     
  4. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    No.
     
  5. Catherineanne

    Catherineanne Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    This is a traditional image of Holy Saturday (remembered in the Nicene Creed as 'he descended into hell', except it wasn't actually hell at all); the Lord bringing the Patriarchs from Sheol (Jewish afterlife) into Paradise.

    Lots of very good Jewish people going to heaven, none of them knowingly Christian. A very useful precedent, that one.
     
  6. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't the scripture say that Jesus descended to preach to spirits in prison?

    I Peter 3:18-20
    “For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits in prison, who once were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.”

    Jude 1: 16
    And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.


    Genesis 6:1-5?
    “When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.”Genesis 6:1-5
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
  7. FrumiousBandersnatch

    FrumiousBandersnatch Well-Known Member

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    That sounds like one of the more fantastical conceptions of hell - worthy of Dante.

    That sounds vaguely familiar - is there some scripture along those lines?
     
  8. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    The more relevant passages here would be Acts 2:31 and Ephesians 4:8-10; Christ's descent "into the depths" (descendit ad inferos of the Apostles' Creed). Which also form the basis of the historic teaching and imagery of the Harrowing of Hell, such as expressed in St. John Chrysostom's beautiful Paschal Homily,

    "He has destroyed death by undergoing death.
    He has despoiled hell by descending into hell.
    He vexed it even as it tasted of His flesh.
    Isaiah foretold this when he cried:
    Hell was filled with bitterness when it met Thee face to face below;
    filled with bitterness, for it was brought to nothing;
    filled with bitterness, for it was mocked;
    filled with bitterness, for it was overthrown;
    filled with bitterness, for it was put in chains.
    Hell received a body, and encountered God. It received earth, and confronted heaven.
    O death, where is your sting?
    O hell, where is your victory?

    Christ is risen! And you, o death, are annihilated!
    Christ is risen! And the evil ones are cast down!
    Christ is risen! And the angels rejoice!
    Christ is risen! And life is liberated!
    Christ is risen! And the tomb is emptied of its dead;
    for Christ having risen from the dead,
    is become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep.

    To Him be Glory and Power, now and forever, and from all ages to all ages.
    Amen!
    "

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  9. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    Acts 2:31

    New Heart English Bible
    he foreseeing this spoke about the resurrection of the Messiah, that neither was he left in Sheol, nor did his flesh see decay.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    And he saw and spoke before about the resurrection of The Messiah, that he would not be left in Sheol, neither would his body see corruption.”

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    David knew that the Messiah would come back to life, and he spoke about that before it ever happened. He said that the Messiah wouldn't be left in the grave and that his body wouldn't decay.




    .
     
  10. Winken

    Winken Heimat Supporter

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    There'll be no joy for satan and his demons, at the Cross satan struck out.
     
  11. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Aye. That's the one.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  12. Winken

    Winken Heimat Supporter

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    Read Romans 10:8-13, then Romans 8:1.
     
  13. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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  14. Winken

    Winken Heimat Supporter

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    Wow. Wow! WOW! That sends the Spiritual Nature in each Christian soaring! Post it on the frig, folks. Post it at your desk! If only it could become a bumper sticker!
     
  15. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    SkyWriting said:
    The ones concerning God destroying the ignorant.

    That does not qualify as God destroying the ignorant.
    Quite the opposite. That is Jesus laying a precedent
    for his followers to forgive the ignorant just as the
    Father will forgive them.
     
  16. popsthebuilder

    popsthebuilder Member

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    Are you joking?

    The ignorant are safe and all will be judged by their works.

    Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk
     
  17. popsthebuilder

    popsthebuilder Member

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    Pleasing works in the sight of GOD are a product of faith.

    Sent from my Z988 using Tapatalk
     
  18. Radrook

    Radrook Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
     
  19. jayem

    jayem Naturalist

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    I'm not a theist of any sort. But here's my 2 cents:

    The Abrahamic God is described as being sovereign. God is always said to be on the throne, or in control, or some other phrase implying universal kingship. And God is not only sovereign, he also has a plan. It's traditional Christian doctrine that a central part of that plan was that Jesus would be the sacrifice for our redemption. The psalmist says that God has written all the days of our lives in his book. Taken together, all of this leads to the conclusion that nothing can happen that isn't in accord with God's grand plan for the universe. And logically, that must apply to all the details of our lives. Including who is saved and who is not. Calvin's predestination was based on the idea that man is so sinful and depraved, that he is inherently unable to choose faith in Jesus. The only way anyone is saved is if God has given him, through his grace, the gift of faith. For most Christians, that's a harsh and unsettling doctrine, and has never been mainstream. But if you believe that God is the ultimate universal sovereign, then predestination also becomes the only logical conclusion.
     
  20. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Let's see .... heaven also means "sky" ... spirit also means wind ... so looking at "being born again by the Holy Spirit" as a concept in that we are in earth like bodies, when people are born again, they take on the quality of the wind or breath of God. The earth goes back into the earth, the wind goes back into the sky. It's metaphysics in a way. It's not about good and bad deeds.

    In physical terms, the lake of fire is when the sun explodes. if the soul is attached to the earth at that time, then it will find itself in darkness with the last memory of being scorched by the sun for an indeterminant period of time.

    it's not so much about being "excluded" per se, it's about gravity and magnetism being applied to spiritual attributes.
     
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