Does the world hate us because of Jesus or because of the way we treat them?

[dhh712]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/please-stop-blaming-your-obnoxious-behavior-on-jesus/?

"Ultimately, many Christians end up hated - not because of Jesus - but because we are too often jerks and completely unwilling to look at our own behavior."

While I think there's a substantial amount of that kind of hate going on, at Christians because they're not living up to the standard set to them by Christianity, I do however think that the basic message of Christianity is something that those of the world generally hate. People want to feel good about themselves and have a sense of self-control. Doing good works for others and having a merciful father in heaven are definitely some nice things about Christianity that could make it attractive to people of the world, but the basic message of Christianity, that you need a Saviour to stand before a holy God, is not something that people would naturally gravitate to.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

Because Christians relate the same gospel message the same wa to everyone thinking everyone is the same. So their method might make sense to one person and tick off another. The idea of changing how you relate it depending on the people you interact with never crosses some minds. Missionaries get that, but they train their lives for that sort of thing. In a multlcultural country like America we forget that not all americans think american.

 

[Far Side Of the Moon]

Alot of times it's just a person's attitude

 

[Kenny'sID]

Sometimes Christians treat non Christians badly and sometimes they treat them well, sometimes non Christians bring the bad treatment on themselves.

Sometimes non Christians treat Christians badly and sometimes they treat them well, sometimes the Christians bring on the bad treatment themselves.

Probably plenty of room for improvement for everyone.

 

[Gordon Wright]

Because Christians relate the same gospel message the same wa to everyone thinking everyone is the same. So their method might make sense to one person and tick off another. The idea of changing how you relate it depending on the people you interact with never crosses some minds. Missionaries get that, but they train their lives for that sort of thing. In a multlcultural country like America we forget that not all americans think american.

It would be nice if evangelists and Bible talk leaders also understood this.

Too many preachers seem to have been raised in a bubble. Church kids are way out of touch and grow up to be out of touch. Send them to seminary and they get even more out of touch, I think this is the main reason why churches fail so badly at the Great Commission. Go out and make disciples, teaching them using valid teaching methods and true empathy. If you stay home and try to breed disciples, you bring forth a generation of pod people. And if those pod people try to go out and make disciples, they will bungle it badly.

 

[Circle Christ]

I think it a heinous presumption on the writers part to imply the world hates us. It is unsubstantiated and is impossible to quantify such an allegation.
There are jerks in the world.
That has not a thing to do with the church. The church holds people accountable for their actions. God's word is contrary to the anything goes axiom that is fastly multiplying in a world gone crazy. A teaching that condemns that and upholds morality and righteous living will be hated. Because we aspire to a higher standard than to think we can live as beasts with no consequences.
Why do people hate Christians for not going along with indecency, immorality, racism, sexism, bigotry, intolerance?
And then twist that around to make it our fault that that is how those people feel towards us so as to move the goal posts and put the blame on those who ask the world to aspire higher than the gutter.

The church knows Jesus told us about this long ago.
"If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me before it hated you."

 

[faroukfarouk]

The Lord Jesus said: "The world cannot hate you; but me it hates, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." (John 7.7)

 

[HeavenMindset]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/please-stop-blaming-your-obnoxious-behavior-on-jesus/?

"Ultimately, many Christians end up hated - not because of Jesus - but because we are too often jerks and completely unwilling to look at our own behavior."

I love this and have been saying the same thing for years! Too many of us act out of hated and anger instead of love and gentleness, and when people respond we say, "It's because they hated Jesus first!" Too many of us use this passage as a way to be ugly to people!
I think too many of us feel that if we don't strongly oppose non-believers, by telling them how wrong they are, then we are somehow accepting what they are saying or doing. This is not the case. Love is not agreement. Love is strong when we can love those we do not agree with! Jesus does not agree with all people, yet He loves all people enough to die for them!

 

[razzelflabben]

Don't know if anyone brought this up yet or not, but seems to me that scripture has the answer we are looking for...2 Corinthians 13:4-6

 

[chandraclaws]

I think it a heinous presumption on the writers part to imply the world hates us. It is unsubstantiated and is impossible to quantify such an allegation.
There are jerks in the world.
That has not a thing to do with the church. The church holds people accountable for their actions. God's word is contrary to the anything goes axiom that is fastly multiplying in a world gone crazy. A teaching that condemns that and upholds morality and righteous living will be hated. Because we aspire to a higher standard than to think we can live as beasts with no consequences.
Why do people hate Christians for not going along with indecency, immorality, racism, sexism, bigotry, intolerance?
And then twist that around to make it our fault that that is how those people feel towards us so as to move the goal posts and put the blame on those who ask the world to aspire higher than the gutter.

The church knows Jesus told us about this long ago.
"If the world hates you, understand that it hated Me before it hated you."

I think the article is merely challenging us to observe our own attitudes and behavior towards others, and to consider the possibility that if non-Christians dislike or even hate us, it may be because of the way we have treated them. We can't blame Christ for that.

 

[razzelflabben]

quick story...in our circle of friends, I always get comments like, "you are the only one that cares" (speaking of both me and my husband) yet at the same time we have people who are treated the same way and they accuse us of being evil in some way. What is the difference? It isn't in how they are treated or in who is treating them that way. My point is this, especially in our current world there are people who want to be offended and some of them would even be offended by Christ's Love for them that doesn't mean we are wrong. That is why I purposed that scripture has the answer when it says that we should examine ourselves soberly to know because it isn't enough to just say it is X or Y rather it is an individual thing as is our Love towards others. IOW's what is Love for one may not be for another that is why as that passage I am referring to says that it is HS based. Everything we do must be in the power of the HS or else we are failing. If it is powered by the HS no matter what happens it is Love.

 

[tatteredsoul]

I dislike some of my own "brethren" quite strongly - even and especially on these forums.

It isn't just about sinners not wanting to be confronted with their sin, or that they reject God. Many do, but if you look deeper they really want help - want to believe.

Then, you have the hellfire group telling them, "repent or boil to death - be perfect and obey God while we ignore most all of the bible."

Why would I, as a sinner, want more condemnation from a group of people claiming that I am sick and lost? We expect them to leave the life of ignorant spiritual bliss, and temper their entire lifestyle all for a story told by hypocritical, almost sadistic persons who don't even know the word of God?

I don't understand how non-theists are at fault here... the Church is at fault for failing to spread the message properly. Politics has been well mixed with religion.

 

[Kenny'sID]

It isn't just about sinners not wanting to be confronted with their sin, or that they reject God. Many do, but if you look deeper they really want help - want to believe.

Then, you have the hellfire group telling them, "repent or boil to death - be perfect and obey God while we ignore most all of the bible."

Yes, some "really want help" However others it seems, are only here to disrupt/or try to kill faith. What you say there may be right in some cases but often depends on the situation. I personally would never berate someone I thought had a genuine interest in the faith, but others, and after going at it for some time with them, yes, I will throw the Hell thing at them, as reminder and last resort.

There is a time and place for everything....even fire and brimstone. Also, though I don't like to get into that anymore than the next man, it is after all God's threat to us so....

As to expecting anyone to be perfect, I'm going to assume you are stretching that a bit, because I've never seen anyone here claim that, unless it's a defensive comment toward non OSASer's.

 

[tatteredsoul]

Yes, some "really want help" However others it seems, are only here to disrupt/or try to kill faith. What you say there may be right in some cases but often depends on the situation. I personally would never berate someone I thought had a genuine interest in the faith, but others, and after going at it for some time with them, yes, I will throw the Hell thing at them, as reminder and last resort.

There is a time and place for everything....even fire and brimstone. Also, though I don't like to get into that anymore than the next man, it is after all God's threat to us so....

As to expecting anyone to be perfect, I'm going to assume you are stretching that a bit, because I've never seen anyone here claim that, unless it's a defensive comment toward non OSASer's.

There is a time and place for everything - even hellfire.

But, you build a relationship first before you rain down sulfur. Christ didn't go around telling people how their sins would roast them in hell. As a matter of fact, it was the sinners who wanted Christ to leave them out of embarrassment of their own sin. Christ convicted them without ever having to preach about hell.

This is how the Church should bare their fruits when ministering. We should be able to convict people based on our actions and spirit alone. You can't square a circle when it comes to spirituality, and condemnation or even loving reproof can cause stumbling blocks.


It is important to get to know people first. Build a relationship on a personal level. Then, when it comes time for you to talk about hell and judgment, it can be done so with a temperament that is enriching to each specific person.

Impersonal messages of God, faith and salvation mean nothing.





And, if you haven't seen people claim to be nearly perfect yet, you will - especially on these forums. But, I didn't mean perfect as in sinless. I meant hypocrites behave as if they are perfectly following the laws of God (with human error exception) judging the supposed sinners.

For example, Christians who claim the OT is done, yet preach against homosexuality or incest whilst eating a bacon wrapped shrimp kabob. Or, Christians who claim only two bulk laws exist, but do not address the other commandments of God. This type of stuff is incredibly upsetting. It was upsetting to hear the circumlocution as an agnostic in my time. It is upsetting now.

And, the "sanctified, highly favored and blessed" attitude of many Christians all but yells, "I am perfect." Of course, they will claim no one is, but that is just clever marketing. If #1 - Christ - isn't around, then surely his nearly perfect followers will do!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Christ convicted them without ever having to preach about hell.

You realize that Christ preached a lot more about hell (A LOT MORE) than about heaven , right ?
And much much more strongly that most preachers today anywhere.

He also healed people, as did the disciples He sent out .

Today, seek those who are preaching the Truth (if you can find them)
and without show and without compromise are healing people and casting out demons.
Same as in the NT.
"HEALING" may be a key to search for - spiritual, mental and physical.
If they are not HEALING , they are not likely in Christ.(Yhwh knows; it may just not be time, or not obvious from the outside looking in)

 

[tatteredsoul]

You realize that Christ preached a lot more about hell (A LOT MORE) than about heaven , right ?
And much much more strongly that most preachers today anywhere.

He also healed people, as did the disciples He sent out .

Today, seek those who are preaching the Truth (if you can find them)
and without show and without compromise are healing people and casting out demons.
Same as in the NT.
"HEALING" may be a key to search for - spiritual, mental and physical.
If they are not HEALING , they are not likely in Christ.(Yhwh knows; it may just not be time, or not obvious from the outside looking in)

Yea of course He did, but after He invested personal relationships with those people. He acknowledged their existence before He went full hellfire - unlike many Christians. The pharisees and hypocrite were the main ones His indignation was toward - specifically for their hypocrisy. If He was here today, He would likely relish in being with sinners/dredges of society - and He would rebuke most Church leaders.


That is why I said build a relationship first, and get to know someone without judgment. Then, when you two are in a relationship of love, you can provide reproof. Who provides instruction to the foolish? Who is truly friends with the foolish?

This is why we have to love our neighbors as ourselves first. If you put yourself in their shoes it is simpler to empathize with a lot. It is aggrivating as heck to hear how damned I am from a stranger who likely doesn't care two locks about me, and doesn't even know my name. Stuff like hellfire and damnation come better from a friend/loved one.

So, if you want to be a church that can be effective like Christ, you need to actually relate to people, and care for them beyond the superficial.

 

[Kenny'sID]

You realize that Christ preached a lot more about hell (A LOT MORE) than about heaven , right ?
And much much more strongly that most preachers today anywhere.

He also healed people, as did the disciples He sent out .

Today, seek those who are preaching the Truth (if you can find them)
and without show and without compromise are healing people and casting out demons.
Same as in the NT.
"HEALING" may be a key to search for - spiritual, mental and physical.
If they are not HEALING , they are not likely in Christ.(Yhwh knows; it may just not be time, or not obvious from the outside looking in)

As I indicated, I agree on knowing what you are dealing with before dropping the heavy ammo.

As to the "perfect" people, yeah, maybe...I've just seen that comment as retaliation and dense form OSASrs's so often, that's what came to mind but maybe that's not what you were referring to.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So then, @tatteredsoul what are you seeking ? Healing ? Freedom from Yhwh's Judgment ? Freedom from fear ?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

As to the "perfect" people, yeah, maybe...I've just seen that comment as retaliation and dense form OSASrs's so often, that's what came to mind but maybe that's not what you were referring to.

I'm not remembering previous posts here; but realize or learn that the perfect assemblies are very rare, and almost non-existent in the western nations because almost no one teaches 'perfect' Yhwh's Word or Plan or Purpose in Christ Jesus. In fact the only place I've found that people hear of and report the gathering of ekklesia doing and living as with Jesus are in china and russia underground persecuted assemblies.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I'm not remembering previous posts here; but realize or learn that the perfect assemblies are very rare, and almost non-existent in the western nations because almost no one teaches 'perfect' Yhwh's Word or Plan or Purpose in Christ Jesus. In fact the only place I've found that people hear of and report the gathering of ekklesia doing and living as with Jesus are in china and russia underground persecuted assemblies

That's kind of my way of thinking. We as a whole, disagree on a lot but imperfection is pretty well accepted as a given and expected by God to a point anyway.

OSASr's do tend to toss that perfection about in one way or another as defense...at least that's been my experience..

Imperfection to the point of out and out disobedience and failure to repent or ask forgiveness is another story altogether.

As to the OP's exact scenario, God will look at any and all extenuating circumstances and decide if we are worthy in the end. In that particular instance, if one forgets to ask forgiveness because of some trauma/so much on their mind, whatever, I'd say it's not a problem, but if they forget because they don't care enough to remember, or whatever, might be a problem. I leave decisions like that to God because he has the wisdom to judge and access to the heart we may not have.

As to the OP's exact intentions, I smell a small rat, and tend to think they may be trying to make something larger from a mole hill in the area of justification.