How Are You Save without Works and Just Faith?

[bugkiller]

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

My wager is you're not compliant with Ex 20:8-11 so I return your quote right back to you.

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

the answer to your question is fairly simple and is the very heart of the gospel.
and if you have not know it, you have missed the gospel itself.

that by Faith in Christ, his righteousness becomes ours ; or
that by faith in christ alone, we are saved by His works.
His works of righteousness becomes our works of righteousness.​

the reformers call this "imputation".

So does Romans 4.

bugkiller

 

[bcbsr]

Paul said in (Heb. 6:10-11) (v.10) For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. (v.11) And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to full assurance of hope unto the end: God is not going to forget your works, nor your labor of love toward his name. But you need to show these same works diligence to have full assurance of hope unto the end. Hope of what? Hope of eternal life. To the end of what? To the end of your life or to the coming of the Lord. You must work until the end! Jesus said in (Rev. 2:26) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

1John 5:4 "everyone born of God overcomes the world." Which is consistent with 1John 3:9 "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." And consequently consistent with what John teaches about those who "fall away". "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19

Thus in contrast to a salvation by works concept those typically of an LOS soteriology advocate, it seems Once Saved, Always Saved. All the verses that speak of a correlation between salvation and behavior are referring to the effect of being born of God.

There simply doesn't exist one born of God who doesn't overcome.

But those who haven't been born of God have difficulty with such a concept because they haven't personally experienced it. For them the idea of salvation being a free gift they take to be a license to sin, because, being in the flesh, they are desperate to find excuses for sinning.

 

[Geralt]

true, it does support imputation. Rom4 v 22

So does Romans 4.

bugkiller

 

[Geralt]

you missed a very important point, righteousness is the basis of salvation. and "doing" is a means for one to be righteous. but "doing" or "works" does not make one 'righteous', in fact no one is. Rom 3:10

it can of course prove one to be righteous, but it wont make one "perfectly" righteous. unless of course you believe in a puny god who is satisfied with effort and sincerity, and not perfection in holiness and righteousness.

we do not make ourselves righteous, we are "made" righteous (Rom 5:19). a righteousness imparted to us. the very reason christ lived a sinless life and obeyed the law perfectly.

your quotations are correct, the problem is really the order of placement.

- "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" - no one endures unto the end unless the spirit of God works on the person. this proves one to be a christian, rather than an effort to try to be one.

- "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee" - no issue here either, for the true child of God always take heed and continues hearing correct doctrine.​

here is your order:

DOING/FOLLOWING/PERSEVERING -> TRIES TO MAKE ONE RIGHTEOUS, OR ATTAINS RIGHTEOUS STATE -> REWARDED SALVATION

here is my biblical view of order

SALVATION-> MADE RIGHTEOUS -> "PROVES" RIGHTEOUS STATE BY DOING, FOLLOWING/ PERSEVERING

Well you got me there...I must have missed something, because what I read was; you freely accepted Jesus in your life, you can also freely choose to stop serving him. Jesus said with his own mouth; (Matt. 24:13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. That is until the end of your life, or until the Second Coming of the Lord. Again in Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Lets take a look at what Paul say in 1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. Pay attention to whats being said here and quote verses and scriptures to prove your points from the Bible.

 

[Travis93]

Jesus will judge you by your works, count on it. Here's what Jesus has to say to people who have faith in him.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Revelation 2:2 I know thy works...
Revelation 2:9 I know thy works...
Revelation 2:13 I know thy works...
Revelation 2:19 I know thy works...
Revelation 3:1 I know thy works...
Revelation 3:8 I know thy works...
Revelation 3:15 I know thy works...

 

[bugkiller]

Jesus will judge you by your works, count on it. Here's what Jesus has to say to people who have faith in him.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Revelation 2:2 I know thy works...
Revelation 2:9 I know thy works...
Revelation 2:13 I know thy works...
Revelation 2:19 I know thy works...
Revelation 3:1 I know thy works...
Revelation 3:8 I know thy works...
Revelation 3:15 I know thy works...

Not when it comes to eternal life.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. JN 5

bugkiller

 

[Travis93]

Not when it comes to eternal life.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. JN 5

bugkiller

The Hebrew understanding of faith/believe is one of action. If you believe in something, it shows in your obedience. They use the same word for "hear" and "obey", that's why Jesus often says "He that has ears, let him hear" after instruction, he's telling the listeners to do what he says. It's why differing Bible translations will substitute "disobeyed" for "unbelief". Why did most of the Israelites fail to reach the promised land in Moses' generation? Was it unbelief or disobedience? Both, they are one in the same. Look up the word Shema for yourself.

1 John and James explain proper faith, probably in response to people who thought faith was just a mental exercise, I think they were called the Gnostics.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hears only, deceiving yourself.
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:19-20 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself to walk, even as he walked.
1 John 3:6-7 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

 

[disciple1]

How will God judge the world? Who will end up in the lake of fire, and who will end up judging with God on his throne? Most Christians don’t know the answer to these questions. Let me ask you this, what if God commanded you to do something, would you do it? If God told you to obey him would you? God has asked this before, but in this world of “New Testament Christians”, almost everyone is taught that we don’t have to obey the laws of God any more. Most ministers today teach that all you have to do (Rom.10: 9) is confess that Jesus came in the flesh and you shall be saved. They have deceived you into believing that you need no works, that you need no fruits of faith. But if this is true, then the same question persists: how will God judge the world?

What if the God of the old and New Testament were one and the same; what if he said, “Keep my Sabbaths”, would you? What if he said, “Keep My Feasts” because the bible says that these are the Feasts of the Lord, and not the feasts of the Jews, would you? What if he said, “Keep my Commandments and my Judgments” would you keep them or would you allow some false prophet to convince you that they are no longer valid? What if he said, “I have an Everlasting Covenant and that I shed my blood for it,” would you believe him? Can you be saved by faith only? Do works matter? In this text lesson we are by way of the bible, going to prove to you that if you have faith in God then you will bring forth fruits of that faith.

From the Merriam Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary the definition of the word faith is; believe, trust. Now then how do you show the Lord that you believe in him? By your works, that’s how. Let’s go to the chapter in the bible that people call the faith chapter.

Lets go into (Heb.11: 1-2, 7, 17, 24-26, 31, 35, 39-40) (v.1) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (v.2) For by it the elders obtained a good report. Now by the elder’s faith (belief) in God they obtained a good report. But how did theses elders show God that they had faith (belief) in him? Let’s take a look at some of them. (v.7) By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness, which is by faith. How did Noah prove to God that he had faith in him? By his works! Noah moved with faith and fear and began preparing the ark. (v.17) By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that received the promises offered up his only begotten son. Now here is the father of the faithful, and how did he show God the he had faith in him? By his works! The Lord God told Abraham to go and sacrifice his son, his only son. And Abraham’s faith was so strong that he was seconds’ way from killing his only son when the angel of the Lord stopped him, now that’s truly fruits of faith. (v.24) By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter; (v.25) Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; (v.26) Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward.


Moses knew who he was once he became of age unlike the movie would have you to believe. How did Moses show his faith? By his works! But through faith he chose to suffer affliction with the people of God rather than enjoy the pleasures of sin by continuing to allow himself to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter: esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt. You see Moses knew exactly whom he was dealing with, and it’s best that you learn that the God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament and his name is Jesus. (v.31) By faith the harlot Ra’-hab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace. The Harlot Ra’- hab showed her faith in God by her works! She hid the spies sent by Joshua, and the Lord blessed her and her family by saving them when he took down the city of Jericho. (v.35) Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: How strong is your faith, will you endure affliction, torture, imprisonment, stoning, and even die for the word of God? These people showed their faith in God by their works, not accepting deliverance because they were looking for a better resurrection. What’s a better resurrection? The first resurrection is a better resurrection because if you are raised in the first resurrection you will not be judged; you will be doing the judging. But all of these people we just read about showed you fruits of faith they showed you works. (v.39) And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: They received a good report through faith. But how did they show their faith (belief) in God? By their works, and they all died with a good report having not received the promise. (v.40) God having provided some better things for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Everybody that has a better resurrection coming will receive it at the same time. That’s why it says that they without us will not be made perfect. Who is perfect? God is perfect. God is recreating God. That’s another lesson for another time.

Love covers many sins.
Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

 

[Bro.T]

you missed a very important point, righteousness is the basis of salvation. and "doing" is a means for one to be righteous. but "doing" or "works" does not make one 'righteous', in fact no one is. Rom 3:10

it can of course prove one to be righteous, but it wont make one "perfectly" righteous. unless of course you believe in a puny god who is satisfied with effort and sincerity, and not perfection in holiness and righteousness.

we do not make ourselves righteous, we are "made" righteous (Rom 5:19). a righteousness imparted to us. the very reason christ lived a sinless life and obeyed the law perfectly.

your quotations are correct, the problem is really the order of placement.

- "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" - no one endures unto the end unless the spirit of God works on the person. this proves one to be a christian, rather than an effort to try to be one.

- "Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee" - no issue here either, for the true child of God always take heed and continues hearing correct doctrine.​

here is your order:

DOING/FOLLOWING/PERSEVERING -> TRIES TO MAKE ONE RIGHTEOUS, OR ATTAINS RIGHTEOUS STATE -> REWARDED SALVATION

here is my biblical view of order

SALVATION-> MADE RIGHTEOUS -> "PROVES" RIGHTEOUS STATE BY DOING, FOLLOWING/ PERSEVERING

Righteousness is obedience from God. Paul say in Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

The Bible is consider our instruction manual as human being. I know what sin is because I read the Bible. In (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.
Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you most keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me. See Exodus 20 for full commandments.

If you yield yourself to Jesus and God, and keep these commandments, you are now in the form of righteousness. If you don't, then you yield yourself as unrighteousness unto sin. Whats the different between a saint and a sinner? The commandments. Lets go to Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. As long as sin is in the world, there have to be the law (commandments).

 

[bugkiller]

The Hebrew understanding of faith/believe is one of action. If you believe in something, it shows in your obedience. They use the same word for "hear" and "obey", that's why Jesus often says "He that has ears, let him hear" after instruction, he's telling the listeners to do what he says. It's why differing Bible translations will substitute "disobeyed" for "unbelief". Why did most of the Israelites fail to reach the promised land in Moses' generation? Was it unbelief or disobedience? Both, they are one in the same. Look up the word Shema for yourself.

1 John and James explain proper faith, probably in response to people who thought faith was just a mental exercise, I think they were called the Gnostics.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hears only, deceiving yourself.
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:19-20 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself to walk, even as he walked.
1 John 3:6-7 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

The fruit of works is death - Romans 3:23.

One can't earn their salvation by works because its a free gift - Rom 6:23. Further more the Scripture states there are none that do good even outside of Paul's words - Ps 14:3. Should you not like my Psalms reference try Isa 63:17 on for size. It point out the exact reason for the law - to make guilty. This is so sin can be legally charged and forgiven. Paul points this fact out in Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. IOW there is no basis to charge for wrong doing without law (required performance).

James does not require performance of the law as the works you seem to be talking about with your reference and quote of James 2:19-20.

Yes I know and understand about the Shema.

You have misplaced pronouns in your I John reference and quotes.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Righteousness is obedience from God. Paul say in Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

The Bible is consider our instruction manual as human being. I know what sin is because I read the Bible. In (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.
Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you most keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me. See Exodus 20 for full commandments.

If you yield yourself to Jesus and God, and keep these commandments, you are now in the form of righteousness. If you don't, then you yield yourself as unrighteousness unto sin. Whats the different between a saint and a sinner? The commandments. Lets go to Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. As long as sin is in the world, there have to be the law (commandments).

Sadly you know neither the commandments of God nor the faith of Jesus.

bugkiller

 

[Travis93]

The fruit of works is death - Romans 3:23.

One can't earn their salvation by works because its a free gift - Rom 6:23. Further more the Scripture states there are none that do good even outside of Paul's words - Ps 14:3. Should you not like my Psalms reference try Isa 63:17 on for size. It point out the exact reason for the law - to make guilty. This is so sin can be legally charged and forgiven. Paul points this fact out in Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. IOW there is no basis to charge for wrong doing without law (required performance).

James does not require performance of the law as the works you seem to be talking about with your reference and quote of James 2:19-20.

Yes I know and understand about the Shema.

You have misplaced pronouns in your I John reference and quotes.

bugkiller

Psalms 14 is about lost people, the first line says "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God". Yes, all godless people can do nothing but sin, that's obvious, if they don't believe in God they have no reason to subject themselves to his law. Romans 8:7 says the carnal mind is enmity against God and his law.

There is no sin that can be forgiven?
Leviticus 4:20, Leviticus 4:26, Leviticus 4:31, Leviticus 4:36, Leviticus 5:10, Leviticus 5:13, Leviticus 5:16, Leviticus 5:18, Leviticus 6:7, Leviticus 19:22, Numbers 15:25-26, Numbers 15:28, Deuteronomy 21:8, Isaiah 33:24, all say it "shall be forgiven". Numbers 14:19-20 and Psalms 85:2 says God has forgiven the people. Psalms 130:4 and Daniel 9:9 says there is forgiveness with God.
Ezekiel 18:21-22 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Ezekiel 33:14-16 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.

There is none righteous or law abiding?
Luke 1:5-6 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

The law only exists to make us guilty? Psalms 119 is praise after praise of how wonderful the law is. Proverbs 3:1-4 says following the law results in longer life and peace, as well as pleasing God. Deuteronomy 30:11-14 says the law is not too hard to follow, we are perfectly capable of doing it. The law exists as our instruction on how we should live, it's not designed to be a useless burden that God gave people that he knew was impossible.

 

[Bro.T]

Sadly you know neither the commandments of God nor the faith of Jesus.

bugkiller

In the scriptures its written in Proverbs 16:27 An ungodly man diggeth up evil: and in his lips there is as a burning fire.

 

[Bro.T]

Lets go to (Rev. 20:12-13) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Who are you allowing to teach you that you need not work to serve the Lord of this bible? (v.13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and dead and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Don’t allow anyone to deceive you! You will be judged according to your works.

In (Rev. 22:11-14) (v.11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still: In other words be whatever you choose to be. (v.12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. How many times must we read, that you will be judged according to your works? (v.13) I am Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end, the first and the last. (v.14) Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

You see by your faith and effort God will work for you. But you must show God your faith by your fruits, by your efforts, by your works! So if you expect to enter into God’s kingdom, you better get to work. I believe therefore I speak. Remember always, that there is peace in Jesus.

May the Lord God understanding to those who are truly seeking the truth, In Jesus name A-men.

 

[Geralt]

you missed the point, faith is not anti-obedience or anti-works. in fact genuine faith is shown by its works.

BUT regardless of how sincere you are in striving to follow the law and be obedient, it will not get you into heaven simply because the qualification is INFALLIBILITY in doing (perfection in obedience) and NOT sincerity in striving to be obedient. If you sin only once (which ALL men does) then you are UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, because God is perfectly holy and his standard is perfection. nothing but perfect obedience is required. (James 2:10)

but you already know this and Paul has laboriously presented this in the book of Romans- that if our righteousness becomes the qualifier, we all fail because NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS (even if they strive to).

Therefore the only solution God has provided is that the righteousness of another be imputed to God's elect. And this time this is an INFALLIBLE righteousness (perfect in obedience) for it is none other but that of God the Son. We are 'made' righteous.

Rom 3:21,22 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it-- the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.​

truly after more than 1000 posts you still missed the gospel message. but that's ok, others are much worse.

Righteousness is obedience from God. Paul say in Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

The Bible is consider our instruction manual as human being. I know what sin is because I read the Bible. In (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.
Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you most keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me. See Exodus 20 for full commandments.

If you yield yourself to Jesus and God, and keep these commandments, you are now in the form of righteousness. If you don't, then you yield yourself as unrighteousness unto sin. Whats the different between a saint and a sinner? The commandments. Lets go to Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. As long as sin is in the world, there have to be the law (commandments).

 

[Bro.T]

you missed the point, faith is not anti-obedience or anti-works. in fact genuine faith is shown by its works.

BUT regardless of how sincere you are in striving to follow the law and be obedient, it will not get you into heaven simply because the qualification is INFALLIBILITY in doing (perfection in obedience) and NOT sincerity in striving to be obedient. If you sin only once (which ALL men does) then you are UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, because God is perfectly holy and his standard is perfection. nothing but perfect obedience is required. (James 2:10)

but you already know this and Paul has laboriously presented this in the book of Romans- that if our righteousness becomes the qualifier, we all fail because NO ONE IS RIGHTEOUS (even if they strive to).

Therefore the only solution God has provided is that the righteousness of another be imputed to God's elect. And this time this is an INFALLIBLE righteousness (perfect in obedience) for it is none other but that of God the Son. We are 'made' righteous.

Rom 3:21,22 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it-- the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe.​

truly after more than 1000 posts you still missed the gospel message. but that's ok, others are much worse.

Again...Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you most keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me.

 

[Geralt]

no contradiction. yes you keep the commandment, the problem is you cannot keep it PERFECTLY.
because PERFECTION in keeping the commandment makes one PERFECTLY righteous in the sight of a PERFECT God.

what, you think making the effort is enough ? a little mistake here and there, a little confession and repentance here and there is enough as long as you keep the effort going? of course not. you will either have a puny version man-made god, but not a most holy and righteous God, perfect in His attributes.

Jas 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. ​

this is the problem and limitation of keeping the law or trying to do good. the standard of the laws of God is not man's effort and limitation to keep it, but GOD's character Himself. Paul has expounded it clearly in Romans 3 why No One is righteous and the necessity for another righteousness not of our making to make as right before God. The very reason why Jesus came down and did what He did,the gospel itself.

Again...Jesus said in (Matt. 19:16-17) (v.16) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? That’s what we are all trying to obtain correct, eternal life? (v.17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Now if you want to enter into eternal life you most keep the commandments. Sounds like a little work to me.

 

[disciple1]

Jesus say in (Matt. 7:21-23) (v.21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. You mean you must do more than call on the name of the Lord to enter into the kingdom of heaven? (Which will be set up on this earth)? (v.22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? (v.23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Now this is not the harlot, the thief, or the murder, these are religious people; some had the power to cast out devils. And what did they put before the Lord? Their works! It’s obvious that their iniquity overrode their wonderful works. But they put their works on the table before the Lord, that’s what you are going to be judged by, your works!

All we need to do is love.
Micah chapter 6
8He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.

 

[bugkiller]

The Hebrew understanding of faith/believe is one of action. If you believe in something, it shows in your obedience. They use the same word for "hear" and "obey", that's why Jesus often says "He that has ears, let him hear" after instruction, he's telling the listeners to do what he says. It's why differing Bible translations will substitute "disobeyed" for "unbelief". Why did most of the Israelites fail to reach the promised land in Moses' generation? Was it unbelief or disobedience? Both, they are one in the same. Look up the word Shema for yourself.

1 John and James explain proper faith, probably in response to people who thought faith was just a mental exercise, I think they were called the Gnostics.
James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hears only, deceiving yourself.
James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
James 2:19-20 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself to walk, even as he walked.
1 John 3:6-7 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. JN 10

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. JN 15

Jesus is speaking to Jews in both instances.

bugkiller