Gal 4 "under the Law" vs "under Grace" in Romans 6 and not sinning

[BobRyan]

You won't understand this because your a prisoner of the devil do what it says in John chapter 8 verses 31,32
Romans chapter 6
14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
(

Freedom to quote the actual details in Romans 6 - would help you avoid that limit of "just one verse" snip in Romans 6.

WE saw that freedom here -

Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.


"SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

Romans 6

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

Study the bible maybe you'll learn something then you can post the truth and know the truth.

Is that retort the only option you have for avoiding Romans 6??

Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.


"SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

Romans 6

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

 

[BobRyan]

Those who appeal to little stunts - games etc to avoid the details in the discussion are not at all convincing for the unbiased objective reader. Bible students will not go for that sort of thing - and it exposes the weakness in your position.

Substantive responses to the posts is a must if you want to show a "sola scriptura" Bible-based belief.

 

[BobRyan]

Our sin is the bondage we need to cast off.
Galatians 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.
Is God's law the elements of this world? Not according to 1 John 2:15 which says whoever loves the world doesn't love God, 1 John 3:4 which says sin is transgression of the law, and 1 John 5:2-3 which says if we love God we keep his commandments.
Galatians 4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are are no gods.
The Galatians were pagans, their worship was of false gods, and their bondage was to that of their Pagan traditions.
Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, how turn ye again to weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
These pagans got called out of that to worship the one true God, but were relapsing into their superstitions of observing times (Galatians 4:10) which is against the law of God which says not to observe times (Leviticus 19:26), which a few verses later is obvious it's not referring to God's own holy days because it says to keep those (Leviticus 19:30).

Good point.

Excellent Bible details.

But expect every Bible detail to be ignored when someone is at war with the Law of God. .. It will happen.

 

[disciple1]

Freedom to quote the actual details in Romans 6 - would help you avoid that limit of "just one verse" snip in Romans 6.

WE saw that freedom here -





Is that retort the only option you have for avoiding Romans 6??

Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.


"SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

Romans 6

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

Job chapter 23 verse 12
I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.
Why do you continue in sin then.

Romans 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

 

[Travis93]

If I commit a crime, I've broken the covenant between me and the law-makers. When I get out of jail, do they expect me to stop committing the crime so I won't be guilty again, or do they take away the law so that I technically can't be guilty anymore?

 

[disciple1]

If I commit a crime, I've broken the covenant between me and the law-makers. When I get out of jail, do they expect me to stop committing the crime so I won't be guilty again, or do they take away the law so that I technically can't be guilty anymore?

Your righteousness isn't greater than the teachers of the law it's the same.
Matthew chapter 5
20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Acts chapter 15
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

 

[Travis93]

Your righteousness isn't greater than the teachers of the law it's the same.
Matthew chapter 5
20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Acts chapter 15
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

The Pharisses were not examples of righteous law keepers, they added their own traditions and nullified the real laws constantly. The sermon on the mount was all about Jesus correcting their errors, as was all the sabbath debates, the hand washing debate, the argument about respecting parents, and so on. Read Matthew 23:4-36 and see if it sounds like Jesus thought they were holy or good.

 

[disciple1]

The Pharisses were not examples of righteous law keepers, they added their own traditions and nullified the real laws constantly. The sermon on the mount was all about Jesus correcting their errors, as was all the sabbath debates, the hand washing debate, the argument about respecting parents, and so on. Read Matthew 23:4-36 and see if it sounds like Jesus thought they were holy or good.

Jesus is high priest there's no other priest I need to listen to.
Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own the did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

 

[bugkiller]

Those who appeal to little stunts - games etc to avoid the details in the discussion are not at all convincing for the unbiased objective reader. Bible students will not go for that sort of thing - and it exposes the weakness in your position.

Substantive responses to the posts is a must if you want to show a "sola scriptura" Bible-based belief.

We've already met your requirements and you post as though nothing was ever posted. So you can just rant on and on if you like.

Bugkiller

 

[Travis93]

Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

"The end of the law" means the goal of the law, following the law leads you to emulating Jesus. If the end of means the abolishing of, then you have a problem, because here
1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Now is salvation the goal of faith, or the abolishing of faith? Or does faith abolish the salvation of your soul?

 

[disciple1]

"The end of the law" means the goal of the law, following the law leads you to emulating Jesus. If the end of means the abolishing of, then you have a problem, because here
1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Now is salvation the goal of faith, or the abolishing of faith? Or does faith abolish the salvation of your soul?

Study the bible you'll learn a lot.
Ephesians chapter 2 verses 14-19
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two. thus making peace and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently , you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household.

 

[Travis93]

God said not to follow those who lead you away from the law in Deuteronomy 13:1-5, even if they show signs and wonders. Either Paul is misunderstood and actually supports the law, or he's a false prophet. That's all there is to it. Notice how in Revelation 21:14 it says there are only twelve apostles, not thirteen. Paul says he was rejected by Asia in 2 Timothy 1:15, why didn't Jesus admonish them for it in Revelation? Notice how Jesus commended the Ephesians for rejecting false apostles in Revelation 2:2.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yhwh called and chose Himself the Apostle Paul even before the world was created, Yhwh Who IS FAITHFUL to Guard His Word and Accomplish His Word exactly as He Planned , and Jesus The Messiah taught the Apostle Paul directly.

Mis-understood? Certainly, just as it is written - there are many false teachers and false prophets (and false religions) , and few true ones.

 

[disciple1]

God said not to follow those who lead you away from the law in Deuteronomy 13:1-5, even if they show signs and wonders. Either Paul is misunderstood and actually supports the law, or he's a false prophet. That's all there is to it. Notice how in Revelation 21:14 it says there are only twelve apostles, not thirteen. Paul says he was rejected by Asia in 2 Timothy 1:15, why didn't Jesus admonish them for it in Revelation? Notice how Jesus commended the Ephesians for rejecting false apostles in Revelation 2:2.

Study the bible I've studied it 34 years, right now I study it 2 to 4 hours a day.
1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
Romans chapter 9 verses 30-Romans chapter 10 verse 4
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame. Brothers my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. For I can testify about them that they are Zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own the did not submit to God's righteousness, Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The same gentiles who share in the resurrected life of and with Jesus TODAY, living in union with Jesus,
chose to repent of sin and not to continue in it.

 

[disciple1]

The same gentiles who share in the resurrected life of and with Jesus TODAY, living in union with Jesus,
chose to repent of sin and not to continue in it.

You sin, why don't you study the bible to instead of trying to enslave people.

1 John chapter 1 verse 8
If anyone claims to be without sin they deceive themselves and the truth is not in them.
James chapter 2 verse 10
If anyone keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

 

[disciple1]

God said not to follow those who lead you away from the law in Deuteronomy 13:1-5, even if they show signs and wonders. Either Paul is misunderstood and actually supports the law, or he's a false prophet. That's all there is to it. Notice how in Revelation 21:14 it says there are only twelve apostles, not thirteen. Paul says he was rejected by Asia in 2 Timothy 1:15, why didn't Jesus admonish them for it in Revelation? Notice how Jesus commended the Ephesians for rejecting false apostles in Revelation 2:2.

What do you say about this then.
But anyway study the bible, Jesus said heaven and earth would pass away but his word never would.
Galatians chapter 3 verse 24,25,23 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith now that faith has come we are no longer under the supervision of the law before this faith came we were held prisoner's by the law locked up until faith should be revealed.

 

[bugkiller]

"The end of the law" means the goal of the law, following the law leads you to emulating Jesus. If the end of means the abolishing of, then you have a problem, because here
1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Now is salvation the goal of faith, or the abolishing of faith? Or does faith abolish the salvation of your soul?

The end of anything means its over as in finished/completed.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

God said not to follow those who lead you away from the law in Deuteronomy 13:1-5, even if they show signs and wonders. Either Paul is misunderstood and actually supports the law, or he's a false prophet. That's all there is to it. Notice how in Revelation 21:14 it says there are only twelve apostles, not thirteen. Paul says he was rejected by Asia in 2 Timothy 1:15, why didn't Jesus admonish them for it in Revelation? Notice how Jesus commended the Ephesians for rejecting false apostles in Revelation 2:2.

No way! See Jer 31:31-33.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Yhwh called and chose Himself the Apostle Paul even before the world was created, Yhwh Who IS FAITHFUL to Guard His Word and Accomplish His Word exactly as He Planned , and Jesus The Messiah taught the Apostle Paul directly.

Mis-understood? Certainly, just as it is written - there are many false teachers and false prophets (and false religions) , and few true ones.

There are no true organized religions. They all teach some error, if not lost of error and outright fraud.

bugkiller