Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

[BobRyan]

(And because we do have 1 or two catholics posting on this section of the board)

It is interesting that even the RCC confirms many of those 7 points.

Dies Domini is a papal encyclical on the subject of Sunday and how it is regarded by tradition to be a holy day rooted in the 10 commandments as a continuation of the 4th commandment (numbered 3 by Roman Catholics)
. Dies Domini, John Paul II, 5 July 1998 - Apostolic Letter - link

========================== Dies Domini begin
Dies Domini pt 11
"the rest of the Sabbath..discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship which God wants to establish with the creature made in his image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love".

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.


Dies Domini pt 11 "if the first page of the book of Genesis presents God's work as an example for man, the same is true of God's rest - on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done therefore God blessed the seventh day and made it holy...it is a gaze which God casts upon all things, but in a special way upon man, the crown
of creation. It is a gaze which already discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship God wants to establish with the creature made in his own image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love."

=============================== Dies Domini ... end quote

The quote I gave from Dies Domini is fully consistent with the examples I gave from the Catholic Catechism - at least that is what we appear to have in the details of those quotes.

No one has an example of Dies Domini or the CCC objecting to the 7 points listed in the OP. No not one.

I offer a perfect example to test the points -- in quotes from the CCC.

I say again that 6 of the 7 points appear here.

Secondary source for the Catechism: This is a link - Catholic Catechism Section Two Ten Comm

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

(Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.

 

[bbbbbbb]

More well-known pro-Sunday Bible teachers - promoting all TEN of the TEN Commandments as applying to Christians.

========================================
(again from page one of this thread) - D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.
The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.​

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

------------------------------------------

This Sabbath Commandment section of Moody's Ten Commandm[FONT=&quot]ent sermon goes quot]on with more detail. Here is a segment of that same section -- the en[FONT=&quot]ding concluding segment - that might help she[FONT=&quot]d even more light on Moody's Intent - #229 post is on this

[/QUOTE]

Given the fact that virtually all churches "gave up the Sabbath" millenia ago and seventh-day adventism is a relatively recent innovation either you believe that the church "went" (where you do not say) ages ago and, therefore your denomination also went with it or you believe somehow that the observance of Sunday as the Christian Sabbath is the hallmark of a healthy church. Which is it?

 

[disciple1]

Well the title of the thread has to do with what pro-Sunday scholars will admit to and affirm when it comes to the obvious details in the Bible about the still-valid-for-the-saints TEN Commandments.

C.H. Spurgeon is the editor for the 19th century quote of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- but ... I could easily have quoted the Westminster Confession of Faith instead --

So then what would be yet another example of such pro-Sunday scholarship that pertains to the 7 point summary list on page one of this thread?

=======================================================
Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19

"Westminster Confession of Faith"

Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God​

I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;l and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.

​

Section 21 of the Westminster and Section 22 of the Baptist both address point 7 "the change" the edit of the Sabbath commandment from the 7th day starting from creation and all through the OT and NT Gospel until the cross where it is "changed" in their mind -- to point to week-day-1.

[/QUOTE]
Romans chapter 6
14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
( I'm sorry your under law and I'm under grace and I'm free and your a slave, I've got to be more gentle with your kind.)
Galatians chapter 4
Hagar and Sarah
21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.”[e]

28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”[f] 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So, disciple1, whose disciple are you then ? Like all the descendants of Abraham with Sarah, the free woman, who kept Torah,
or of Hagar, the slave, who may or may not have kept Torah ?

 

[klutedavid]

It's like Paul knew people would take him out of context to abolish the law. Romans 3:28 says we get saved by faith before we follow the law, then Romans 3:31 says faith doesn't void the law, it establishes it.

Hello Travis.

I appreciate your reply Travis, though you seem to be guilty of not actually reading the text yourself.

Romans 3:28 says we get saved by faith before we follow the law

Is that correct Travis, is that what Paul is saying in the verse (Romans 3:28)?

Romans 3
28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

What is clear Travis, is that Paul is saying that justification is not based on the works of the law but by faith (i.e., trust).
The text does not support your previous statement, you merely have an interpretation that relies on widespread inference.

For example Travis, when Paul uses the phrase 'the law', does this mean automatically that you can substitute the phrase
'the ten commandments' in it's place? Of course you can't do that Travis, the New Testament never qualifies that phrase 'the law'.

It is most unfortunate for us, that the meaning of this phrase 'the law' is entirely unclear in the text. Though the phrase 'the law' does generate wild debate about it's meaning. In the end Travis, inference is the sole tool used to supply any meaning to that phrase.

Talking about the context now, may I ask Travis, which group of people are identified as being under the law?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

the New Testament never qualifies that phrase 'the law'.

So sad to see this common mis-statement on a so-called 'Christian' site.
Jesus was clear, as were the Apostles and disciples (ALL Jewish at first) and the gentile disciples also understood , simply.
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from >
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=torah&qs_version=CJB
Matthew 18Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

18 At that moment the talmidim came to Yeshua and asked, “Who is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven?” 2 He called a child to him, stood him among them, 3 and said, “Yes! I tell you that unless you change and become like little children, you won’t even enter the Kingdom of Heaven! 4 So the greatest in the Kingdom is whoever makes himself as humble as this child. 5 Whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me; 6 and whoever ensnares one of these little ones who trust me, it would be better for him to have a millstone hung around his neck and be drowned in the open sea! 7 Woe to the world because of snares! For there must be snares, but woe to the person who sets the snare!

 

[Travis93]

Hello Travis.

I appreciate your reply Travis, though you seem to be guilty of not actually reading the text yourself.

Is that correct Travis, is that what Paul is saying in the verse (Romans 3:28)?

Romans 3
28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

What is clear Travis, is that Paul is saying that justification is not based on the works of the law but by faith (i.e., trust).
The text does not support your previous statement, you merely have an interpretation that relies on widespread inference.

For example Travis, when Paul uses the phrase 'the law', does this mean automatically that you can substitute the phrase
'the ten commandments' in it's place? Of course you can't do that Travis, the New Testament never qualifies that phrase 'the law'.

It is most unfortunate for us, that the meaning of this phrase 'the law' is entirely unclear in the text. Though the phrase 'the law' does generate wild debate about it's meaning. In the end Travis, inference is the sole tool used to supply any meaning to that phrase.

Talking about the context now, may I ask Travis, which group of people are identified as being under the law?

Being under the law means being under the penalty of breaking the law. To get out from under the law, you start following it. Here's an example. Say a person is caught stealing something, but the person they stole from has mercy on them and pardons them by grace when they beg for forgiveness. Is the thief expected to change their ways and not steal anymore, or is the law against theft abolished so they are free to go right back to doing it?

The thief is not justified by having kept the law their whole life, they broke it and deserve punishment, but when they repent they can turn their life around and become righteous. By changing their ways, they are justified apart from having kept the law, but not making void the law, but rather establishing it to never steal again.

Faith without works is dead and cannot save you (James 2:14-26), and if you say you believe in Jesus but don't keep the commandments you are a liar (1 John 2:3-6). You must repent and prove it by your deeds, as Paul says in Acts 26:20.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Being under the law means being under the penalty of breaking the law. To get out from under the law, you start following it.

This surprises me the way you said this.
To be free from the penalty of the Torah does not mean that is is possible by keeping Torah - but by realizing Jesus paid the penalty of Torah, death, for sin.
After that, or even before that, we keep Torah because it is Yhwh's Instructions that sets us apart from the heathen, as He always said, in His Word,
and even more simply,
because it is His Instructions to us on HOW TO LIVE RIGHT.
With or without Torah, people sin. Without Torah, people are lawless and sin.
With Torah, Yhwh has provided a remedy for sin,
and when people sin, and if they
repent and are saved(some questions there),
then Jesus has paid the price for their sin so they don't die for their sin.

Without Torah, people are lawless, there's no remedy from Yhwh, and no one pays the price for them - they pay it themselves, death. (Instead of Jesus dying for them, they must die for themselves, for their own sin).

 

[Travis93]

This surprises me the way you said this.
To be free from the penalty of the Torah does not mean that is is possible by keeping Torah - but by realizing Jesus paid the penalty of Torah, death, for sin.
After that, or even before that, we keep Torah because it is Yhwh's Instructions that sets us apart from the heathen, as He always said, in His Word,
and even more simply,
because it is His Instructions to us on HOW TO LIVE RIGHT.
With or without Torah, people sin. Without Torah, people are lawless and sin.
With Torah, Yhwh has provided a remedy for sin,
and when people sin, and if they
repent and are saved(some questions there),
then Jesus has paid the price for their sin so they don't die for their sin.

Without Torah, people are lawless, there's no remedy from Yhwh, and no one pays the price for them - they pay it themselves, death. (Instead of Jesus dying for them, they must die for themselves, for their own sin).

Yes, Jesus paid the penalty for our sin (Romans 3:25, 1 John 2:2), I wasn't denying what he did for us. I was just focusing on the fact that people usually take verses that say "not under the law" to mean we don't have to follow it at all, as it doesn't apply to us. To me the phrase "under the law" means under the penalty of it, not under the instruction of it.

 

[BobRyan]

Given the fact that virtually all churches "gave up the Sabbath" millenia ago and seventh-day adventism is a relatively recent innovation either you believe that the church "went" (where you do not say) ages ago and, therefore your denomination also went with it or you believe somehow that the observance of Sunday as the Christian Sabbath is the hallmark of a healthy church. Which is it?

hmm ... page 1 of this thread has my answer.

Ok that is all well and good - but the thread title says that these obvious pro-Ten Commandment facts in the Bible are also affirmed by pro-Sunday scholarship.

How can that possibly be?

First a summary of the pro-Sunday scholarship statements affirming the TEN Commandments.

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

To make sure we don't miss it ...

6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

 

[disciple1]

So, disciple1, whose disciple are you then ? Like all the descendants of Abraham with Sarah, the free woman, who kept Torah,
or of Hagar, the slave, who may or may not have kept Torah ?

Abraham was justified by faith not law, I think it explains it here, sorry you probably can't understand, study the bible more, as it says in John chapter 8 verses 31,32 you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Galatians chapter 4
Hagar and Sarah
21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.”[e]

28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”[f] 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Abraham was justified by faith not law,.....

That's right ! Good !
And Abraham OBEYED God -
David OBEYED God -
Jesus OBEYED God -
Peter, James, John, Stephen OBEYED God -
Paul, taught by revelation of Jesus , OBEYED God -
and
THEY ALL LIVED BY FAITH ! They KEPT THE LAW(TORAH) when it was given, and they ALL - OBEYED GOD,
and were JUSTIFIED BY FAITH .

very good.
Other people disobeyed God, and where did they end up ?
It is not pretty !

 

[Travis93]

Abraham was justified by faith not law,

Abraham is an example for believers. He was justified by faith, then went on to live a life of obedience.
Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

obeyed

 

[disciple1]

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

I'm sorry you two slaves are not understanding, study the bible many years God may be kind to you.
Abraham was justified by faith not law, I think it explains it here, sorry you probably can't understand, study the bible more, as it says in John chapter 8 verses 31,32 you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Galatians chapter 4
Hagar and Sarah
21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.”[e]

28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”[f] 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

 

[disciple1]

That's right ! Good !
And Abraham OBEYED God -
David OBEYED God -
Jesus OBEYED God -
Peter, James, John, Stephen OBEYED God -
Paul, taught by revelation of Jesus , OBEYED God -
and
THEY ALL LIVED BY FAITH ! They KEPT THE LAW(TORAH) when it was given, and they ALL - OBEYED GOD,
and were JUSTIFIED BY FAITH .

very good.
Other people disobeyed God, and where did they end up ?
It is not pretty !

Romans chapter 4


4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

 

[Travis93]

Romans chapter 4


4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

You're going to use David as an example of being saved without following the law? The man who wrote the longest chapter in the Bible, Psalms 119, which is nothing but praise of the law? The point is that they got started by believing God, not that that's all they ever had to do. Look at king Saul, he lost his salvation through constant disobedience 1 Samuel 16:14. 1 Samuel 15:23 says because he rejected the word of God, God rejected him.

David describes the law as liberty (Psalms 119:45), truth (Psalms 119:151), everlasting (Psalms 119:142), a delight (Psalms 119:47), perfect (Psalms 19:7), and many more praises.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Romans chapter 4

Don't stop with chapter 4. Jesus didn't. Or are you trying to make Him ashamed of you, or you be ashamed of your own behavior ?
After being given forgiveness of your sin by grace,
are you going to keep on sinning ?
Romans 6Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

6 So then, are we to say, “Let’s keep on sinning, so that there can be more grace”? 2 Heaven forbid! How can we, who have died to sin, still live in it? 3 Don’t you know that those of us who have been immersed into the Messiah Yeshua have been immersed into his death? 4 Through immersion into his death we were buried with him; so that just as, through the glory of the Father, the Messiah was raised from the dead, likewise we too might live a new life.

IS SIN GOING TO RULE YOUR LIFE NOW ?
12 Therefore, do not let sin rule in your mortal bodies, so that it makes you obey its desires; 13 and do not offer any part of yourselves to sin as an instrument for wickedness.

You SAY you're under grace, right ?
15 Therefore, what conclusion should we reach? “Let’s go on sinning, because we’re not under legalism but under grace”? Heaven forbid!


For just as you used to offer your various parts as slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led to more lawlessness;
ARE YOU GOING TO CONTINUE IN LAWLESSNESS??

or please God and be made holy ?
so now offer your various parts as slaves to righteousness, which leads to being made holy, set apart for God.

or are you going to continue to do what you are now ashamed of doing ?(continuing sin, in shame of God's Grace)
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in relationship to righteousness; 21 but what benefit did you derive from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end result of those things was death.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

As for the wrong teachers,
Pray for them, but don't follow them nor trust them.
(men teaching on tv or intentional broadcasts teaching lawlessness)

 

[disciple1]

You're going to use David as an example of being saved without following the law? The man who wrote the longest chapter in the Bible, Psalms 119, which is nothing but praise of the law? The point is that they got started by believing God, not that that's all they ever had to do. Look at king Saul, he lost his salvation through constant disobedience 1 Samuel 16:14. 1 Samuel 15:23 says because he rejected the word of God, God rejected him.

David describes the law as liberty (Psalms 119:45), truth (Psalms 119:151), everlasting (Psalms 119:142), a delight (Psalms 119:47), perfect (Psalms 19:7), and many more praises.

Romans chapter 6
14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

John chapter 8 verses 31,32
To the Jews who believed him Jesus said if you hold to my teaching you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Study the bible maybe you'll have something true to share, instead of slavery.