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Ten Commandments still valid so says Bible and pro-Sunday Scholars

bugkiller

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1 Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

If believing is Jesus abolishes the law, then faith abolishes the salvation of your soul.
The end of one's faith is salvation
Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Ceaser, have offended at any thing at all.

Paul kept the law till the end, so according to your interpretation of Romans 10:4 he was an unbeliever.
NOPE!!!

19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. I Cor 9

bugkiller

23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
 
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klutedavid

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Hello Bob.

You commented on the rest of Romans 7.
And as Romans 7 goes on to point out - even when they are saved they choose to
serve the LAW from the heart - from pure motives.
The rest of Romans 7, i.e., verses six and beyond tell us the following.

Romans 7

6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we
were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

A very interesting verse, Paul is telling us that the Jews have been released from the law.
No longer do the Jews in Christ need to serve God under the letter of the law. Paul is not
discussing the Gentiles in this chapter, the Gentiles were never members of the Old Covenant.
The Gentiles never had a temple, nor a priestly class, no sacrifices, no law, no sabbath, no
new moon celebration.
 
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Travis93

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Romans 7
6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we
were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law; for I had not known lust, except the law had said, thou shalt not covet.

It's like Paul knew people would take him out of context to abolish the law. Romans 3:28 says we get saved by faith before we follow the law, then Romans 3:31 says faith doesn't void the law, it establishes it. Romans 5:20-21 says grace comes in to save us from sin, then Romans 6:1-2 says we shouldn't sin that grace may abound. Romans 6:14 says we aren't under the law but under grace, then Romans 6:15-16 says we shouldn't sin and should instead serve righteousness. Read the following two verses carefully, and notice there are two laws going on here.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The law of sin is what we are released from, our sinful nature is what should be conquered by Christ so that we can obey the law of God. The same idea is in Romans 7:5 For we were in the flesh, by the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

The law of sin leads to death (Romans 6:23), but the law of God leads to life (Romans 8:2).
 
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Bob S

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Morality is forever for all mankind, the ritual laws that Jews have been released from are all the other laws found in Torah. Everyone knows the Torah was not sin Travis. Not being under the law means that the law cannot condemn us who are under grace. All the law could do is condemn.

Who gives the authority to put Gentiles under Torah? Those who try are doing something no one in all of scripture ever did. When we accept Christ as our personal Savior we become one of those who God told Abraham would inherit the Earth. We through Christ are Abraham's seed. Abraham was saved by Grace, the same grace that Jesus offers to all of us. Abraham didn't have Torah. It does not bending to Torah that saves.
 
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Travis93

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The apostle to the gentiles Paul told them that all scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16). Is it all profitable, or just the last third of it (NT), or even just his own letters since some think Jesus's instructions (such as Matthew 23:2-3 where he says to observe what teachers of the law of Moses say, and Matthew 23:23 where he rebukes them for forgetting the "moral laws" but says they should have done that along with the "ceremonial laws" like tithing mint and cummin) are merely OT as well?
 
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disciple1

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Hello Bob.

You commented on the rest of Romans 7.

The rest of Romans 7, i.e., verses six and beyond tell us the following.

Romans 7

6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we
were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

A very interesting verse, Paul is telling us that the Jews have been released from the law.
No longer do the Jews in Christ need to serve God under the letter of the law. Paul is not
discussing the Gentiles in this chapter, the Gentiles were never members of the Old Covenant.
The Gentiles never had a temple, nor a priestly class, no sacrifices, no law, no sabbath, no
new moon celebration.
I believe all we have to do is love now that we're set free from all law.
Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
 
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disciple1

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The apostle to the gentiles Paul told them that all scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16). Is it all profitable, or just the last third of it (NT), or even just his own letters since some think Jesus's instructions (such as Matthew 23:2-3 where he says to observe what teachers of the law of Moses say, and Matthew 23:23 where he rebukes them for forgetting the "moral laws" but says they should have done that along with the "ceremonial laws" like tithing mint and cummin) are merely OT as well?
I believe this sets us free from all law, and now all we have to do is love.
Ephesians chapter 2 verses 14-19
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two. thus making peace and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. Consequently , you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household.
 
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Travis93

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Ephesians 2:14-19 is talking about abolishing the oral law the Pharisees were pushing. All those nit picky things about the sabbath and the washing of hands and such. Certainly not God's own law, God's commandments explain to us how to love.
1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
God's law is not against us, it is perfect, converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It prolongs our days and pleases God (Proverbs 3:1-4). It is good doctrine (Proverbs 4:2). It's better than thousands of gold and silver (Psalms 119:72).
 
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BobRyan

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Romans 6 is talking about the law to the saved as we see in Romans 6:1-4.

Romans 7 describes the problem of the lost person in 1-5 who is released from the condemnation of the Law when they become saved. And as Romans 7 goes on to point out - even when they are saved they choose to serve the LAW from the heart - from pure motives. But they need the Romans 8:4-9 work of the Holy Spirit to do it.

Meanwhile Romans 8:4-9 says the wicked choose instead to be at war with God and opposed to His Law.

So then to the saved saints Paul says

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"


Hello Bob.

You commented on the rest of Romans 7.

The rest of Romans 7, i.e., verses six and beyond tell us the following.
Romans 7
6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we
were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

A very interesting verse, Paul is telling us that the Jews have been released from the law.

Romans 7 says nothing about just-JEWS. In Romans 3 (which forms the context leading to Rom 7) all mankind is subject to the LAW of God -- the entire world --

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
..
31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; 10 and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; 11 for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

And so we see at the start of Romans 7 the condition of the lost person - condemned by the law as we see for "ALL the World" in Romans 3:19

Nothing here about "just jews" freed from the curse of the LAW of Rom 3:19 that condemns the entire world.

What is more -- only the lost are unable to obey - according to Rom 8:4-10

Rom 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

No wonder Paul says to the saints -
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
 
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BobRyan

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I believe all we have to do is love now that we're set free from all law.
Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
.

In Matt 22 Jesus says all the LAW and the Prophets are based on - and an expression of the Law of LOVE. Love to God (Deut 6:5) and Love to man( Lev 19:18).

Rather than saying "all the law is deleted by Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5" Christ said all the Law and the prophets rests securely on those two foundational commands. Thus in the OT - where Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 live - they did not "delete the Bible" then... or now.

1. Love to God does not include rebellion against God's Word.
2. To argue that some of God's Law is not conformed to Christ's statement about it in Matt 22 - is to be at odds with Christ's teaching -- so that is why we do not pit one against the other.
 
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disciple1

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Ephesians 2:14-19 is talking about abolishing the oral law the Pharisees were pushing. All those nit picky things about the sabbath and the washing of hands and such. Certainly not God's own law, God's commandments explain to us how to love.
1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
God's law is not against us, it is perfect, converting the soul (Psalms 19:7). It prolongs our days and pleases God (Proverbs 3:1-4). It is good doctrine (Proverbs 4:2). It's better than thousands of gold and silver (Psalms 119:72).
Matthew chapter 13


13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]
IN VERSE 15 IT TALKING ABOUT YOUR HEART BEING CALLOUSED AS IT IS WITH EVERYONE WHO PREACHES LAW, BECAUSE NO ONE EXCEPT CHRIST EVER OBEYED IT.
AND YOU WHO PREACH THE LAW PREACH HATE NOT LOVE.
 
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bugkiller

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Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law; for I had not known lust, except the law had said, thou shalt not covet.

It's like Paul knew people would take him out of context to abolish the law. Romans 3:28 says we get saved by faith before we follow the law, then Romans 3:31 says faith doesn't void the law, it establishes it. Romans 5:20-21 says grace comes in to save us from sin, then Romans 6:1-2 says we shouldn't sin that grace may abound. Romans 6:14 says we aren't under the law but under grace, then Romans 6:15-16 says we shouldn't sin and should instead serve righteousness. Read the following two verses carefully, and notice there are two laws going on here.

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

The law of sin is what we are released from, our sinful nature is what should be conquered by Christ so that we can obey the law of God. The same idea is in Romans 7:5 For we were in the flesh, by the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

The law of sin leads to death (Romans 6:23), but the law of God leads to life (Romans 8:2).
You make Paul an idiot.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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The apostle to the gentiles Paul told them that all scripture is profitable for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16). Is it all profitable, or just the last third of it (NT), or even just his own letters since some think Jesus's instructions (such as Matthew 23:2-3 where he says to observe what teachers of the law of Moses say, and Matthew 23:23 where he rebukes them for forgetting the "moral laws" but says they should have done that along with the "ceremonial laws" like tithing mint and cummin) are merely OT as well?
The Apostle Paul didn't say nor imply all scripture applies to everyone everywhere.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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In Matt 22 Jesus says all the LAW and the Prophets are based on - and an expression of the Law of LOVE. Love to God (Deut 6:5) and Love to man( Lev 19:18).

Rather than saying "all the law is deleted by Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5" Christ said all the Law and the prophets rests securely on those two foundational commands. Thus in the OT - where Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 live - they did not "delete the Bible" then... or now.

1. Love to God does not include rebellion against God's Word.
2. To argue that some of God's Law is not conformed to Christ's statement about it in Matt 22 - is to be at odds with Christ's teaching -- so that is why we do not pit one against the other.
You throw out the context even when it is directly provided in the text.

bugkiller
 
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BobRyan

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You throw out the context even when it is directly provided in the text.

bugkiller

Did the "Baptist Confession of Faith" also throw out the context - just because they admit to Bible details that go against your traditions and preferences??
===============================

Baptist Confession of Faith Section 19

Section 19:

C.H. Spurgeon's edition of the "Baptist Confession of Faith"
-- CH Spurgeon


The Perpetuity of the Law of God

Very great mistakes have been made about the law. Not long ago there were those about us who affirmed that the law is utterly abrogated and abolished, and they openly taught that believers were not bound to make the moral law the rule of their lives. What would have been sin in other men they counted to be no sin in themselves. From such Antinomianism as that may God deliver us. We are not under the law as the method of salvation, but we delight to see the law in the hand of Christ, and desire to obey the Lord in all things. Others have been met with who have taught that Jesus mitigated and softened down the law, and they have in effect said that the perfect law of God was too hard for imperfect beings, and therefore God has given us a milder and easier rule. These tread dangerously upon the verge of terrible error, although we believe that they are little aware of it.

Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" .

Section 19
. The Law of God

  • God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.


  • The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the TEN COMMANDMENTS, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.


  • Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.


  • To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it __________________
 
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bbbbbbb

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Did the "Baptist Confession of Faith" also throw out the context - just because they admit to Bible details that go against your traditions and preferences??

Why does the Baptist Confession of Faith mean so much to you when, in fact, few, if any, of us here are Baptists?
 
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BobRyan

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Why does the Baptist Confession of Faith mean so much to you when, in fact, few, if any, of us here are Baptists?

Well the title of the thread has to do with what pro-Sunday scholars will admit to and affirm when it comes to the obvious details in the Bible about the still-valid-for-the-saints TEN Commandments.

C.H. Spurgeon is the editor for the 19th century quote of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" -- but ... I could easily have quoted the Westminster Confession of Faith instead --

So then what would be yet another example of such pro-Sunday scholarship that pertains to the 7 point summary list on page one of this thread?

=======================================================
Westminster Confession of Faith Section 19
"Westminster Confession of Faith"
Chapter XIX
Of the Law of God
I. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which He bound him and all his posterity, to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience, promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it, and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

II. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai, in ten commandments, and written in two tables: the first four commandments containing our duty towards God; and the other six, our duty to man.
III. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a church under age, ceremonial laws, containing several typical ordinances, partly of worship, prefiguring Christ, His graces, actions, sufferings, and benefits;l and partly, holding forth divers instructions of moral duties. All which ceremonial laws are now abrogated, under the New Testament

IV. To them also, as a body politic, He gave sundry judicial laws, which expired together with the State of that people; not obliging under any now, further than the general equity thereof may require.

V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof; and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it. Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.
VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned; yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly; discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives; so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin, together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin: and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof: although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works. So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace

VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it; the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.

Section 21 of the Westminster and Section 22 of the Baptist both address point 7 "the change" the edit of the Sabbath commandment from the 7th day starting from creation and all through the OT and NT Gospel until the cross where it is "changed" in their mind -- to point to week-day-1.[/QUOTE]
 
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More well-known pro-Sunday Bible teachers - promoting all TEN of the TEN Commandments as applying to Christians.

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(again from page one of this thread) - D.L. Moody notices that some are opposed to the Sabbath Commandment - but notice how this sermon on the TEN Commandments also fits the summary of 7 points listed here on page 1??

http://www.fbinstitute.com/moody/The_TenCommandments_Text.html

BY THE
DWIGHT L. MOODY
The Ten Commandments:
Exodus 20:2-17
.

The Fourth Commandment


Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: for in six days the LORD made heaven and Earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath Day, and hallowed it.

[FONT=&quot]THERE HAS BEEN an awful letting-down in this country regarding the Sabbath during the last twenty-five years, and many a man has been shorn of spiritual power, like Samson, because he is not straight on this question. Can you say that you observe the Sabbath properly? You may be a professed Christian: are you obeying this commandment? Or do you neglect the house of God on the Sabbath day, and spend your time drinking and carousing in places of vice and crime, showing contempt for God and His law? Are you ready to step into the scales? Where were you last Sabbath? How did you spend it?

I honestly believe that this commandment is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place.
"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27)
It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was
- in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.

The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. The fourth commandment begins with the word remember, showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote this law on the tables of stone at Sinai.
How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

I believe that the Sabbath question today is a vital one for the whole country. It is the burning question of the present time. If you give up the Sabbath the church goes;

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This Sabbath Commandment section of Moody's Ten Commandm[FONT=&quot]ent sermon goes quot]on with more detail. Here is a segment of that same section -- the en[FONT=&quot]ding concluding segment - that might help she[FONT=&quot]d even more light on Moody's Intent - #229 post is on this[/QUOTE]
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
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BECAUSE NO ONE EXCEPT CHRIST EVER OBEYED IT.
So , now you admit by your own ignorance that you never read the Bible yourself ? (or you would know who throughout Scripture obeyed the Torah, Willingly and Joyously ! (see Nehemiah to start - they REJOICED to find Torah and keep it)

AND YOU WHO PREACH THE LAW PREACH HATE NOT LOVE.
That's what Jesus said about the unrepentant sinning society, remember ?
That they would say "hate hate" like you are doing, when shown such love by all those who honored Torah and were immersed in His Name....
 
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