The evidence for evolution for Kenny'sID thread

[Archaeopteryx]

You really don't get what I'm saying or are you just trying to twist it into something innocent? Try this, impose math/chemistry or whatever on my kids but don't impose Evolution.

Why not? You have just as much reason to oppose teaching evolution as you do to oppose teaching chemistry - none.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Please do yourself a favour and at least learn what evolution is before the hole you are digging gets any deeper.

No deep hole because there is no evolution. Just because you and many others are satisfied it's a fact, doesn't mean it is, it's never come close to being proven. Do *yourself* a favor and stop teaching it to your children, and all but condemning them to a very bad end. How selfish of you people to not even consider what you might be doing.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

No deep hole because there is no evolution. Just because you and many others are satisfied it's a fact, doesn't mean it is, it's never come close to being proven. Do *yourself* a favor and stop teaching it to your children, and all but condemning them to a very bad end. How selfish of you people to not even consider what you might be doing.

What about my question regarding Islam?

 

[Kenny'sID]

See? As I said: you can doubt anything you want, just like you can believe anything you want... but it won't change the facts. One of those facts is that genetics demonstrate common ancestry of life beyond and reasonable doubt.

How can you conclude my doubts don't include facts? One of those facts are.. People are biased in their conclusion with science. Another fact, things are created all the time, a huge fact that y'all choose to discount as nothing, but it's a fact nonetheless. And another fact, just because we claim knowledge with science and the great education of our time, does not mean even the simplest of facts aren't meaningful or even huge.

Everything I've ever seen come to be by man was created, an absolute and 100% fact, so to conclude the universe and all that is in it, was created, to me is a perfecly reasonable deduction and should not be that far fetched at all, but bias refuses to even consider it..

Bias says, No! we have tons of this that and the other, to prove otherwise (but it doesn't prove it actually and we admit that). But what do you really have beyond opinion... possibility or theory? Lots of stuff doesn't equate to truth. I know people that lie right to your face, they get real loud/dramatic and it's as if they think the louder they are the more their lie will become the truth to others, and it may to some, but others aren't confused with that.

Producing a lot of what you call evidence, even tons of it that in the end if one gets deep into it, proves little or nothing, is kind of like a terrible 2 kid throwing a fit, and saying I/we WILL have our way, even if we have to bury you in nonsense....you WILL relent eventually, and many of you have. And yes, you'll laugh, but that's really the way some of us see it, FWIW.

I'm going to have to take a break now, I'm starting to skip posts in trying to address all I can and I'll get yelled at for that so best just stop for now.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Everything I've ever seen come to be by man was created, an absolute and 100% fact, so to conclude the universe and all that is in it, was created, to me is a perfecly reasonable deduction and should not be that far fetched at all, but bias refuses to even consider it..

But we know that complex structures can emerge through natural processes rather than being the product of design.

 

[Loudmouth]

How can you conclude my doubts don't include facts? One of those facts are.. People are biased in their conclusion with science. Another fact, things are created all the time, a huge fact that y'all choose to discount as nothing, but it's a fact nonetheless. And another fact, just because we claim knowledge with science and the great education of our time, does not mean even the simplest of facts aren't meaningful or even huge.

Just an elaborate "head in sand" argument.

Everything I've ever seen come to be by man was created, an absolute and 100% fact, so to conclude the universe and all that is in it, was created, to me is a perfecly reasonable deduction and should not be that far fetched at all, but bias refuses to even consider it..

Rain is created by a deity?

Clouds are created by a deity?

Lightning is created by a deity?

But what do you really have beyond opinion... possibility or theory?

We have observable facts.

Lots of stuff doesn't equate to truth. I know people that lie right to your face, they get real loud/dramatic and it's as if they think the louder they are the more their lie will become the truth to others, and it may to some, but others aren't confused with that.

That's exactly what all the bluster is surrounding your attempts to ignore the facts.

 

[Loudmouth]

No deep hole because there is no evolution. Just because you and many others are satisfied it's a fact, doesn't mean it is, it's never come close to being proven. Do *yourself* a favor and stop teaching it to your children, and all but condemning them to a very bad end. How selfish of you people to not even consider what you might be doing.

Yet another "stick head in sand" argument.

 

[Larniavc]

Science is fine...what you are talking about is theory being taught as fact, for all you know it's outright lies but at best theory and biased opinion.

So would it be fair to teach children that ToE currently explains allele change in populations over time most effectively but new evidence could change this state of affairs, at any time?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Now for the "stick head in sand" strategy.

Here is a picture of Kenny'sID trying to address the scientific evidence.

I could just as easily make that same claim to many of you but it would be a cop out. Kinda like the idiotic, oh, your just stupid or you don't know nuthin' as defense.

And since I see a lot of your post are now parroting the head in sand thing, I'm afraid I'm going to have to put you on probation too. Seriously, there is no need in my wasting my time replying or even reading cop out posts. There are enough serious post here that aren't a waste of time.

2 down, anyone want to make this even easier on me?

 

[Kenny'sID]

I appreciate your fielding a lot of posts so don't worry about it.

I have read through the thread and the only objections to OP I've seen are as substantial as the one you've just written. If you're going to debate a subject you should at least try and learn something about it. If you want to remain ignorant about the specifics of the theory of evolution that's up to you, but I'd suggest it's extremely hypocritical of you to try and complain it's wrong when you obviously haven't got a clue what you're even addressing.

I suggest you take a bit of advice from Saint Augustine, it may be over a thousand years old but it couldn't be more apt. Your embarrassing yourself and making your religion seem foolish* in the eyes of many.

Saint Augustine (A.D. 354-430) in his work The Literal Meaning of Genesis (De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim) provided excellent advice for all Christians who are faced with the task of interpreting Scripture in the light of scientific knowledge.

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men.


* I don't think Christianity is foolish at all, just a certain branch of it that takes the ancient myths and legends of the Old testament as literal history and has to deny actual facts about the natural world to protect their beliefs.

Funny, I don't feel the least bit embarrassed. I personally would be embarrassed to even back something as nonsensical as evolution...just so you see the other side of what you are saying.

As far as my not being educated enough for you, I guess I should have expected that, but not too many of you seem to be the brightest bulb in the chandelier either when it comes to common sense so whatever on that. I'm certainly not going to take a course in something I don't believe in just to disprove it to you, for one, it's just a silly unrealistic, nonsense expectation, also I could spend years studying it and we'd be in the same place we are now once the argument started... you should know that by now. Also you using that as a catch all for you being right and me wrong is a cop out in my view. If you have a problem with what I don't know, explain it. An over all, "you just don't get it" isn't going to cut it, and is no defense at all.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Why would you need to have that clarified?

"learn science" seems pretty straightforward.......................

Who cares? I had my reasons and I didn't hear the one I was responding to complaining. Besides what would my answer to that help or hinder here?

Why do you think?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Theory is what explains the phenomena of reality.
And no, theories never become facts or laws. Theories explain facts and laws.

I think you need a dictionary...badly. Theory explains nothing unless we allow it too with opinion. Theory is simply a "how it could be" we decide with logic/bias or whatever, whether it is or not.

Sounds like you are pulling a lot of this stuff right out of your hat...making it up....creating definition that sides with your view instead of using real definition...slight of hand.

And to see so many agree with you just because what you say works for your side, whether it is true or not tells me a lot. Someone prove to me these poppycock definitions of theory are viable....please.

 

[tallbouy]

Everything I've ever seen come to be by man was created, an absolute and 100% fact, so to conclude the universe and all that is in it, was created, to me is a perfecly reasonable deduction and should not be that far fetched at all, but bias refuses to even consider it.

Yet in order for that to be true in your mind you must exclude your God from that process, everything must be designed and created except your God, that's the only way you can make it work, where is your perfecly reasonable deduction now?

 

[Jimmy D]

Funny, I don't feel the least bit embarrassed. I personally would be embarrassed to even back something as nonsensical as evolution...just so you see the other side of what you are saying.

I didn't think you would be embarrassed, I was referring to St Augustine's advice.

As far as my not being educated enough for you, I guess I should have expected that, but not too many of you seem to be the brightest bulb in the chandelier either when it comes to common sense so whatever on that. I'm certainly not going to take a course in something I don't believe in just to disprove it to you, for one, it's just a silly unrealistic, nonsense expectation, also I could spend years studying it and we'd be in the same place we are now once the argument started... you should know that by now. Also you using that as a catch all for you being right and me wrong is a cop out in my view. If you have a problem with what I don't know, explain it. An over all, "you just don't get it" isn't going to cut it, and is no defense at all.

Great, you know nothing about evolution but you still come on here telling us that people who have spent their lives studying it are wrong. Old St Augustine nailed it didn't he?

Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men.

I appreciate you need to protect your beliefs at all costs, but do you ever consider that you could be mistaken?

 

[Jimmy D]

I could just as easily make that same claim to many of you but it would be a cop out. Kinda like the idiotic, oh, your just stupid or you don't know nuthin' as defense.

And since I see a lot of your post are now parroting the head in sand thing, I'm afraid I'm going to have to put you on probation too. Seriously, there is no need in my wasting my time replying or even reading cop out posts. There are enough serious post here that aren't a waste of time.

2 down, anyone want to make this even easier on me?

If the cap fits.....

You admitted that you are ignorant in regard to the theory of evolution so what are you crying about?

An over all, "you just don't get it" isn't going to cut it, and is no defense at all.

It does cut it though doesn't it, you've demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of the topic and the main thrust of your argument is saying "I don't believe it" in as many words as you can. The thread was started to discuss specific evidence for the TOE (which you demanded if I remember correctly), you have yet to show that the evidence is wrong or points to something other than evolution apart from that you don't believe it. (I have read through this whole sorry thread so don't tell me that I've missed it).

 

[USincognito]

Dunning-Kruger.

 

[DogmaHunter]

No deep hole because there is no evolution. Just because you and many others are satisfied it's a fact, doesn't mean it is, it's never come close to being proven. Do *yourself* a favor and stop teaching it to your children, and all but condemning them to a very bad end. How selfish of you people to not even consider what you might be doing.

Ignoring the yet again ignorant statements about evolution....

Are you saying that we should only be teaching those things to our children which can actually be completely proven?

That would effectively mean the end of faith-based beliefs.

 

[DogmaHunter]

How can you conclude my doubts don't include facts? One of those facts are.. People are biased in their conclusion with science.

Genetic tests to determine kinship/ancestry are not subject to bias. Such tests are as objective as it gets.

Another fact, things are created all the time, a huge fact that y'all choose to discount as nothing, but it's a fact nonetheless.

How is that relevant?

And another fact, just because we claim knowledge with science and the great education of our time, does not mean even the simplest of facts aren't meaningful or even huge.

How is that relevant? What is your point here?

Everything I've ever seen come to be by man was created, an absolute and 100% fact, so to conclude the universe and all that is in it, was created, to me is a perfecly reasonable deduction and should not be that far fetched at all, but bias refuses to even consider it..

Why are you replying with claims about the origins of the universe, in response to a quote about biological relationships between organisms, based on objective examination of DNA samples?

Bias says, No! we have tons of this that and the other, to prove otherwise (but it doesn't prove it actually and we admit that). But what do you really have beyond opinion... possibility or theory?

Evidence. Independently verifiable evidence.

Lots of stuff doesn't equate to truth. I know people that lie right to your face, they get real loud/dramatic and it's as if they think the louder they are the more their lie will become the truth to others, and it may to some, but others aren't confused with that.

When a geneticist claims ancestry / kinship between two individuals based on DNA comparision, nobody needs to "simply believe" it. The test is repeatable.

Sure, a geneticist can lie. It's easily exposed. See, that's why evidence and falsifiability is usefull.... We don't actually need to simply "believe" whatever a scientist says. And neither do the peers of that scientist.


But, just to be clear... are you saying that geneticists are LYING about being able to determine kinship or ancestry, based on DNA samples?

Is that really your argument?

Producing a lot of what you call evidence, even tons of it that in the end if one gets deep into it, proves little or nothing, is kind of like a terrible 2 kid throwing a fit, and saying I/we WILL have our way, even if we have to bury you in nonsense....you WILL relent eventually, and many of you have. And yes, you'll laugh, but that's really the way some of us see it, FWIW.

Yep, it seems exactly that that is what you are doing.... claiming that geneticists are lying about what they can and can't determine based on DNA comparisions.

So, just to be crystal clear on this....

Is that REALLY what you are saying? That DNA can not be used to determined kinship or ancestry between individuals?

 

[tallbouy]

Funny, I don't feel the least bit embarrassed. I personally would be embarrassed to even back something as nonsensical as evolution...just so you see the other side of what you are saying.

That's because you have been raised to think that evolution is false, unfortunately no one bothered to explain to you why it's false, have you never wondered why no one explained that to you?

Do you think creationists should learn as much as they can about evolution in order to fight against it? do you think police anti drug squads know nothing about drugs? or fire fighters know nothing about fires? surely it would be just common sense to find out as much as you can about the thing you are against in order to defeat it, instead what do the parents of creationists do? keep their children as far away from evolution as possible, why on earth would they do that if evolution was so wrong? ask yourself why.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I think you need a dictionary...badly. Theory explains nothing unless we allow it too with opinion. Theory is simply a "how it could be" we decide with logic/bias or whatever, whether it is or not.

I think you need a crash course in how science works.
Let's look at a dictionary indeed:

Theory
1.
a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena:
Einstein's theory of relativity.


A "scientific theory", which is essentially the graduation stage of a hypothesis that has been successfully tested over and over and over, is not the same as a "theory" you invent while at a bar drinking beer with your buddies.

You weren't aware that words can mean different things in different contexts?

Sounds like you are pulling a lot of this stuff right out of your hat

I agree, if my "hat" is the scientific method.

...making it up....creating definition that sides with your view instead of using real definition...slight of hand.

See above. That's the dictionary definition of a scientific theory.

www.notjustatheory.com

And to see so many agree with you just because what you say works for your side, whether it is true or not tells me a lot. Someone prove to me these poppycock definitions of theory are viable....please.

I just did.

Here, some more reading for you...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory