The evidence for evolution for Kenny'sID thread

[Archaeopteryx]

Sorry you aren't so confident with your own beliefs, I am. Are you actually telling me I should not be? If so, why?

Perhaps you are wildly overconfident in them? I'm not sure though, as I haven't seen enough of your posts.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Do you want to impose evolution on the kids? Do you want to impose your personal beliefs on evolution biology and geology? does that already happen? Who should really be worried here?

"Impose evolution"? You mean education? Teaching children about the facts and our best explanations for them? Are you threatened by that?

No one is going to give those kids the right of choice, we are going to choose it for them. Have you even considered that you might be actually condemning those kids to Hell, if on the even outside chance you are wrong, do any of you consider that? Is you being right so important that you are willing to take even the slightest chance that could happen? Are you anywhere near that sure of yourselves? Would you art least agree to a fighting chance for the kids "just in case" and allow both to be taught or better yet, let the kids and/or their parents choose for them?

Have you considered that you might be condemning those kids to Hell by not teaching them that Islam is the one true religion? Would you want that to be taught "just in case"?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Exactly. Well said.

What point did you agree with specifically?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

No, evolution is still theory and assumptions....It's FAR from scientific fact or is that not proper? Seems someone used the term truths earlier but truths are fact and science doesn't prove things to be fact, yet evolution is factual? or....

http://notjustatheory.com/

 

[USincognito]

No, atheism is not equivalent to nihilism.

1. This idea appears to arise from within your religion. It's not what most atheists think.
2. Who said that we are simply the result of random chance?

No, it's certainly not meaningless now.

This thread is not for a discussion of atheism or anything other than the evidence for evolution.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

This thread is not for a discussion of atheism or anything other than the evidence for evolution.

Noted. I'll avoid discussing that in the future in this thread.

 

[DogmaHunter]

No one is going to give those kids the right of choice, we are going to choose it for them. Have you even considered that you might be actually condemning those kids to Hell, if on the even outside chance you are wrong, do any of you consider that?

Be honest here... when indoctrinating your children into your particular religion, are you considering that you might be actually condemning your children to the Hell version of Islam, Hinduism, Scientology, ... or any of the many, many, MANY,... other religion out there that you happen to not believe in?

I'll go ahead and assume your answer is "no". Well, we don't either. For the exact same reason.

Is you being right so important that you are willing to take even the slightest chance that could happen? Are you anywhere near that sure of yourselves?

Are you?

Would you art least agree to a fighting chance for the kids "just in case" and allow both to be taught or better yet, let the kids and/or their parents choose for them?

Would you?

BTW, what is being taught now...today?

Science.

Again, they don't get to choose that I know of in a public school

And they shouldn't get to choose either. They have to be taught our current best ideas. There is no good reason not to.

, and what we are discussing here could be one of the major decisions of your lives, just like teaching your child there is no God

I don't know any atheist or secular home that "teaches their kids there is no god".

God is simply a non-issue in such homes. I had a secular eduction. God simply didn't come up. Just like Cthulu or Quetzalcoatl probably never came up in your upbringing either.

In any case, if you insist on indoctrinating your kids into a religion, that's what sunday churches are for. In school, they get to learn about history, math, science, etc.

Nobody stops you from teaching your children about religion.

 

[Astrophile]

Do you want to impose evolution on the kids? Do you want to impose your personal beliefs on evolution biology and geology? does that already happen? Who should really be worried here?

They are not my personal beliefs; the great age of the Earth and the evolution of living things are well-established science. More than 99% of biologists, of all religions, accept the truth of evolution; that is why it should be taught in schools.

No one is going to give those kids the right of choice, we are going to choose it for them. Have you even considered that you might be actually condemning those kids to Hell, if on the even outside chance you are wrong, do any of you consider that? Is you being right so important that you are willing to take even the slightest chance that could happen?

There are Christians who think that the Bible says that the Earth is flat, or that it is spherical and stationary at the centre of the universe, and therefore that anybody who teaches that the Earth is spherical and in orbit around the Sun is condemning their pupils to Hell. Do you think that the story of the confusion of languages at the tower of Babel is historically true? If so, what do you think should be taught about the origin and history of languages?

More generally, we have to take some risks. The risk that people will go to Hell because they have believed the science that they were taught at school, science that is supported by all the evidence, is inconsiderable. And what am I supposed to think of a God who condemns people to eternal punishment in Hell only because they accept a well-established scientific theory?

Are you anywhere near that sure of yourselves?

Yes, I am. I have lived as an atheist for the past 34 years. I never pray, and I never attend church. When I die, an event that cannot be long delayed, that will be the end; my body will rot, and my life will eventually be forgotten. No doubt you think that I shall go to Hell; I think that the risk is small enough for me to take against the benefit of being able to search out truth for myself rather than having to believe the teachings of some ancient book.

Would you at least agree to a fighting chance for the kids "just in case" and allow both to be taught or better yet, let the kids and/or their parents choose for them?

No. I know enough about the history of Christianity to guess what the consequences of such a step would be. The Christian church has consistently opposed any sort of education, and has lent its name to the crudest superstitions; it has led crusades and wars of religion; it has killed 'heretics' and 'witches' by the tens or hundreds of thousands; it has opposed democracy, and has given its support to the most monstrous tyrants. I do not want to see it regain its power to do such things.

BTW, what is being taught now...today?

Again, they don't get to choose that I know of in a public school, and what we are discussing here could be one of the major decisions of your lives, just like teaching your child there is no God

I don't know what is being taught today in schools, either in Britain or America. It's a long time since I was at school, and I haven't got any children. I think that a majority of young adults under 30 in Britain do not believe in any god, and I am inclined to applaud their decision; they will probably live happier and better lives, and will have nothing to regret or fear when they die. What they teach their children is their affair.

 

[Astrophile]

Sorry, duplicate post.

 

[Astrophile]

No, evolution is still theory and assumptions

Like atomic theory, and kinetic theory, and thermodynamic theory, and electromagnetic theory, and relativity, and quantum theory. If these other theories should be taught as science, why not evolution?

 

[USincognito]

I'm a plate tectonicist!

 

[Kenny'sID]

Evolution is no more "imposed" on kids than geometry, chemistry or U.S. history.

You really don't get what I'm saying or are you just trying to twist it into something innocent? Try this, impose math/chemistry or whatever on my kids but don't impose Evolution.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Based on what? Your deep understanding of the subject? Your lengthy investigation of it?

Now for the "are you smarter than them" card. And your deep understandings of nonsense tells you I'm wrong?

I'd a left that card out of this, it can bite back no matter how you play it.

 

[bhsmte]

So predictable. Science is fine...what you are talking about is theory being taught as fact, for all you know it's outright lies but at best theory and biased opinion. Teach science, not the things man reads into science. You really should have been on the ball enough not to even make the comparison.

I know well evidenced science causes distress for some.

 

[bhsmte]

Now for the "are you smarter than them" card. And your deep understandings of nonsense tells you I'm wrong?

I'd a left that card out of this, it can bite back no matter how you play it.

Next time you go to the doctor for medical care, ask them if the practice of medicine includes what we have learned from evolution.

Then, hold your ears.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I've been seeing the "I've already answered. Go back and look." garbage from Creationists for as long as I've been on the Internet.

Yeah you keep bragging about what a pro you are. Saying those words sdeosn't negate the fact that otfen enough "go back" is a viable request. Did you ever wonder "why" you see it a lot...lol

It's right there in the fourth bullet point - common ancestry explains why we observe features of terrestrial mammals in marine mammals like whales and dolphins. "Common design" is an ad hoc and unfalsifiable claim and then you need to go further and explain why God would put a non-functioning gene package for hind legs in beings that, according to Creationists, never walked on land. You need to explain why God would have whales move up and down like terrestrial mammals instead of side to side like all other marine vertebrates. You can't just shout "common design!" and then leave it at that.

I'll go further once you convince me that comes even close to proving evolution. And if science doesn't prove anything, can you please explain to me how your going to do that and clear up my confusion on how you even draw the conclusion evolution is a fact...please?

You're engaging in philosophy and metaphysics and that's great, but it's not science.

Nor is your science, science, it's people drawing conclusion with opinion. Science is very likely perfect in itself, people are not and when you guys keep dropping the S word as some type of end all in the matter, I sometimes wonder if you have any idea of what you are doing.

I've been saying the same thing since the OP and the information for how Sonic Hedgehog and Hand2 work to form hind limbs, and photos of the embryonic hind limb buds are right there as well.

I think I already commented on this....not sure if it was this thread, but I'll try to find it if you haven't already seen it.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Are you going to clarify on your argument or not?

Giving you some me time. I don't mind being disagreed with, knock down drag out disagreements, being called names, or people getting furious with each other, but wasting anothers time consistently, I'll pass.

 

[Loudmouth]

Nope, been there already and got another poster mad at me because I had no idea what, within the write up was the actual evidence. IOW, I didn't see any evidence, and he got even more angry when I asked him to be specific..something that should have been so simple. You all saw it so, I'm sure you will understand.

Surely you can understand why obstinate denial would frustrate people?

You don't even understand the science you are rejecting. That is what frustrates people.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Giving you some me time. I don't mind being disagreed with, knock down drag out disagreements, being called names, or people getting furious with each other, but wasting anothers time consistently, I'll pass.

So far, the only one being rude is you. I just asked for clarification of your argument, to the extent that you have one.

 

[Loudmouth]

Now for the "are you smarter than them" card.

Now for the "stick head in sand" strategy.

Here is a picture of Kenny'sID trying to address the scientific evidence.