Gal 4 "under the Law" vs "under Grace" in Romans 6 and not sinning

[1John2:4]

is days for Israel only. All those special days had to do with Israel and not with any other nation or people. You act as though you have to observe those days to be blessed. I g

I believe I was very clear in my reply, I keep them to serve God and to learn who He is. I find much more truth to glean from rather than keeping RCC holidays such as Christmas and Easter.

 

[1John2:4]

His days for Israel only. All those special days had to do with Israel and not with any other nation or people. You act as though you have to observe those days to be blessed. I get my blessings from the new covenant law of loving others as Jesus loves us. Try it and I am sure you will like it.

I believe I replied to this but in case I did not, Jerimiah 31 speaks of no convenent for Gentiles just House of Isreal and House of Judah which one are you?

 

[1John2:4]

gi'mie a break dude.

Thou shalt not kill is commandment 6.

Thou shalt not commit adultery is commandment 7.

Neither originate from the Talmudic Oral Law.

bugkiller

You did not read the post. Btw I am not a dude.

 

[1John2:4]

Sorry but this above quote doesn't come from Matthew. Besides that I don't know what version of the Scripture you're quoting. My Greek transliterated text says "prei emou" - concerning me. If you like I can post the Greek script.These aren't included in the Mat 5 text because of LK 24:44. Yes I understand you say they are. I also understand why you believe that.Why do you insist that Jesus is lying or that Dr. Luke is a false prophet/teacher?

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. Rom 10

Why do you refuse to believe?

bugkiller

Paul was human and did some things He never asked any other Christian to do. We don't know why except he did say he tried to be all things to all people. What Paul did does not obligate Christians. The new covenant is not about old covenant rituals.

I never said anything against Luke or Yeshua only against your understanding, why would He say he did not come to abolish then abolish the law? That does not make any sense? You have the Greek translation what does fulfill mean? Does it mean abolish? Where did you glean this idea from?

 

[1John2:4]

ry but this above quote doesn't come from Matthew. Besides that I don't know what version of the Scripture you're quoting. My Greek transliterated text says "prei emou" - concerning me. If you like I can post the Greek script.

One New Man translation

 

[1John2:4]

They must resort to anything to deny Jesus is Savior.

bugkiller

No I think we are trying not to be lead away with the error of the lawless. 2 Thessalonians

Why must I always defend my position with scripture. How about you defending your position with scripture. Is there any scripture that says Torah is still in existence?

Yeshua quoted the Shema Dueteronomy 6:4 In Matthew 22:36 and Mark 12:29 when asked what the greatest command is. The Shema was given to remember the commands of God. Romans 3:31 Paul states we should establish the law. 1 Corinthians 7:19 Paul states the commandments of God are what matters. Revelation 14:12 shows that the saints have both the testimony of Yeshua and the commandments of God

 

[1John2:4]

So what's keeping you from compliance with Ex 20:8-11? There was no temple at the time the 4th commandment was issued. It doesn't require a temple either.

Are you incompliance with Ex 12:48?

bugkiller

Ex 12:48 does not apply to me personally, but yes all the males in my home are able to keep Passover according to the Torah.

 

[1John2:4]

Bob, I think I answered all of your questions, please let me know if I missed any. I may be out of pocket with work for a couple of days, if you would like to continue this debate please be patient with me on my replies. If not I had a great time digging in the Word with you thanks again for debating with me.

 

[Bob S]

Please read Isaiah 56

I did and realize that God left the door open for the gentiles who wished to join the ranks of Israel. What I cannot understand is that Israel is no longer God's covenant people and yet there are some clamoring to keep the rules that no longer exist.

I know you want me to answer your question about the Torah being abolished. Jesus purpose for coming to Earth was not to abolish anything and He said just that. As we all know His purpose was to save the chosen people. He accomplished this by being the final sacrifice for not only Israel but He included all mankind. He had to prove that He could keep the Torah and He did just that. You indicated that you are at least aware that we are under a new covenant. When Jesus uttered His last words at Calvary He said "it is finished". Before that Jesus had said the Torah would be fulfilled by Him, but not one jot nor one tittle would pass from Torah until he did fulfilled it. When He uttered those words"it is finished" the Torah was finished. Jesus, at that moment, ushered in the new covenant. Jesus didn't have to abolish Torah, the Jews failed to live by it and Jesus did what I wrote. If you have something different to add to this by all means debate it.

I believe I have written about this before, but you must have looked over it.

You also wrote that the new covenant was for Israel as was written in Jer31. What a wonderful Savior we have. Not only did He give the new covenant to the Jews, but also included gentiles. Yep, gentiles too. He told the disciples to go into all the World and spread the good news to everyone. Everyone can come to the Father through Jesus.

1Jn wrote:
Paul never wrote it is OK to willfully sin but the definition of sin is transgression of the law 1 John 3:4. So if there is no law there is no sin. Why would we even need help keeping our garments clean?

Is it your belief that Christians that do not subscribe to your form of religion are lawless? I will tell you that is the farthest from the truth. The bases for your belief system is the old covenant 10 commandments. Christians law includes hundreds of wrongful deeds we can do to our fellow man. You quoted 1JN3:4, have you read the remainder of !jn 3? Let me tell you that we know we belong to the truth if we follow John's words in 1Jn3. 1Jn 3 tells us what the law is that we transgress and you will be surprised to know it isn't the 10 commandments. Remember the 10 ended at the Cross.

19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

There are hundreds of ways to hurt our brothers and sisters. In the defunct 10 commandments there was only six ways.

 

[Bob S]

Bob, I think I answered all of your questions, please let me know if I missed any. I may be out of pocket with work for a couple of days, if you would like to continue this debate please be patient with me on my replies. If not I had a great time digging in the Word with you thanks again for debating with me.

I am sorry I was harsh with you, I apologize. It seemed like I was answering your question and then getting more while mine were overlooked.

I hope to return when you have time. I will check in from time to time.

Maybe this can help you in answering posts. see the "+" to the left of the camera at the top. Highlight any part of a post, click on the + and a "quote" will appear. Click on the quote and it will put the highlighted part of the quote in green.( during your reply it shows "quote" at both ends of the highlighted area) You do not have to start a new post with every thought in answering a post.

 

[bugkiller]

I believe I replied to this but in case I did not, Jerimiah 31 speaks of no convenent for Gentiles just House of Isreal and House of Judah which one are you?

IOW you believe one has to become subject to the covenant made with Israel ie become a Jew to possess salvation. The Apostles said no in Acts 15. The record of Acts supports this outside of chapter 15.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

You did not read the post. Btw I am not a dude.

What do you mean I did not read the post?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

I never said anything against Luke or Yeshua only against your understanding, why would He say he did not come to abolish then abolish the law? That does not make any sense? You have the Greek translation what does fulfill mean? Does it mean abolish? Where did you glean this idea from?

Evidently you don't seem to understand abolish, fulfill or even new. Abolish doesn't mean annihilate. You must also not understand the word covenant either.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

One New Man translation

Great. Where does one get this version? And would you please discuss the rest of my post?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

No I think we are trying not to be lead away with the error of the lawless. 2 Thessalonians

Yeshua quoted the Shema Dueteronomy 6:4 In Matthew 22:36 and Mark 12:29 when asked what the greatest command is. The Shema was given to remember the commands of God. Romans 3:31 Paul states we should establish the law. 1 Corinthians 7:19 Paul states the commandments of God are what matters. Revelation 14:12 shows that the saints have both the testimony of Yeshua and the commandments of God

Paul does not say we should establish as in keep or enforce the law. Paul says very plainly Now we (includes Jews) are delivered from the law. Rom 7:6.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Ex 12:48 does not apply to me personally, but yes all the males in my home are able to keep Passover according to the Torah.

Then none of the law applies to you. If a natural born Jew (Israeli) male wasn't physically circumcised he lost not only his God, but also his country.

bugkiller

 

[1John2:4]

You indicated that you are at least aware that we are under a new covenant

But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Jeremiah 31:34 The Covenant does not cancel (finish) the law. He wrote it on our hearts with His Spirit we should desire to keep His law if it is on our hearts, like David we should meditate and rejoice in His ways not cast them off and do what is right in our own opinion. The law is spiritual Romans 7:14 and God and the Spirit are Ahad.

 

[1John2:4]

When He uttered those words"it is finished" the Torah was finished. Jesus, at that moment, ushered in the new covenant. Jesus didn't have to abolish Torah, the Jews failed to live by it and Jesus did what I wrote. If you have something different to add to this by all means debate it.

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” Matthew 27:46

And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which is translated, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” Mark 15:34

This is Matthew and Marks accounts of Yeshua's last words on the cross.
I believe this is Yeshua is fulfilling Psalm 22

My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?
2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent. (I would recommend re-reading the entire thing, it is absolutely amazing)

He fulfilled the suffering servant, that is what is finished that is what he came to do this time, to die so the lost sheep of Israel could return. They were divorced by God because of transgression and scattered into the nations.

Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also. Jeremiah 3:8

[ The Servant, Israel’s Hope ] Thus says the Lord: “Where is the certificate of your mother’s divorce, Whom I have put away? Or which of My creditors is it to whom I have sold you? For your iniquities you have sold yourselves, And for your transgressions your mother has been put away. Isaiah 50:1 (This is Jacob's trouble)

Because of God's own law (because He is a just God) He can not marry the same woman twice

then her former husband who divorced her must not take her back to be his wife after she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the Lord, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. Deuteronomy 24:4

“They say, ‘If a man divorces his wife, And she goes from him And becomes another man’s, May he return to her again?’ Would not that land be greatly polluted? But you have played the harlot with many lovers; Yet return to Me,” says the Lord. Jeremiah 3:1

Yeshua took the curse for us, (the curse of the law)

So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

And the priest shall put her under oath, and say to the woman, “If no man has lain with you, and if you have not gone astray to uncleanness while under your husband’s authority, be free from this bitter water that brings a curse. Numbers 5:19

As you can clearly see, these passages say nothing about the Torah being cancelled this is a fulfillment of prophecy. That is what he finished on the cross, he not only took the curse of the unfaithful woman, He died to become eligible to remarry her. God created a way for His beloved Jacob, Israel, Ephraim to come home (all name for the house of Israel) , She(House of Israel) was divorced from Him and scattered among the nations. It was because of Israel's iniquity that they were cast off, God had to die to bring her back. That is why Yeshua is referred to as a shepherd, But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Matthew 15:24

This is why He comes back for His bride in the end, because through His blood, her garments have been made clean, she is now a virgin and eligible to be wed.

 

[Bob S]

But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. Jeremiah 31:34 The Covenant does not cancel (finish) the law. He wrote it on our hearts with His Spirit we should desire to keep His law if it is on our hearts, like David we should meditate and rejoice in His ways not cast them off and do what is right in our own opinion. The law is spiritual Romans 7:14 and God and the Spirit are Ahad.

“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,
declares the Lord.
What do you believe "not like the covenant I made with their ancestors" means? I don't care where you say it is written makes the difference, the new covenant isn't like the old one. Where it is written is ludicrous. You are parroting others without giving what you write a thought.

“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
What are Jesus laws? Hint JN 15:9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. This is exactly what John wrote in 1Jn3: 19-24 19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20 If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

This is what is written on our hearts brother, not 613 laws that most do not pertain to Christians. If it is 613 laws that are written on our hearts wouldn't you think people would e breaking down the doors to your meeting house ready to join up with like believers. That is how we know we belong to the truth. You have not discovered that yet and are following someone's thoughts without testing their beliefs with scriptural truth.

 

[Bob S]

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” Matthew 27:46

And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” which is translated, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” Mark 15:34

This is Matthew and Marks accounts of Yeshua's last words on the cross.
I believe this is Yeshua is fulfilling Psalm 22

My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?
2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent. (I would recommend re-reading the entire thing, it is absolutely amazing)

He fulfilled the suffering servant, that is what is finished that is what he came to do this time, to die so the lost sheep of Israel could return. They were divorced by God because of transgression and scattered into the nations.

Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also. Jeremiah 3:8

[ The Servant, Israel’s Hope ] Thus says the Lord: “Where is the certificate of your mother’s divorce, Whom I have put away? Or which of My creditors is it to whom I have sold you? For your iniquities you have sold yourselves, And for your transgressions your mother has been put away. Isaiah 50:1 (This is Jacob's trouble)

Because of God's own law (because He is a just God) He can not marry the same woman twice

then her former husband who divorced her must not take her back to be his wife after she has been defiled; for that is an abomination before the Lord, and you shall not bring sin on the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance. Deuteronomy 24:4

“They say, ‘If a man divorces his wife, And she goes from him And becomes another man’s, May he return to her again?’ Would not that land be greatly polluted? But you have played the harlot with many lovers; Yet return to Me,” says the Lord. Jeremiah 3:1

Yeshua took the curse for us, (the curse of the law)

So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

And the priest shall put her under oath, and say to the woman, “If no man has lain with you, and if you have not gone astray to uncleanness while under your husband’s authority, be free from this bitter water that brings a curse. Numbers 5:19

As you can clearly see, these passages say nothing about the Torah being cancelled this is a fulfillment of prophecy. That is what he finished on the cross, he not only took the curse of the unfaithful woman, He died to become eligible to remarry her. God created a way for His beloved Jacob, Israel, Ephraim to come home (all name for the house of Israel) , She(House of Israel) was divorced from Him and scattered among the nations. It was because of Israel's iniquity that they were cast off, God had to die to bring her back. That is why Yeshua is referred to as a shepherd, But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Matthew 15:24

This is why He comes back for His bride in the end, because through His blood, her garments have been made clean, she is now a virgin and eligible to be wed.

My thoughts on the subject coincide with the writings of the Apostles. The Torah ended at the Cross Matt 5, The law was until Jesus Gal 3. the 10 commandments were temporary 2Cor 3.